Packers Huddle

Trying to be positive and forward looking here ..........

Who should be/are worthy to be the STARTING Packers defensive players in 2021?

Base Package
Nickel Package
Dime Package

Base Package: Z, Clark, Jaire, Amos, Gary.
Nickel: Z, Clark, Jaire, Amos, Gary
Dime: Z, Clark, Jaire, Amos, Gary

Thoughts on Savage, Preston, Lowry, Lancaster, Summers, Barnes, King, Sullivan, M. Adams, Etc. Who's a keeper?, who isn't a keeper? Are we overlooking any body?

Thinking this is the mess that our new Defensive Coordinator will be faced with.

Don't see a mess. You've got great edge guys and Killer Clark in the middle. You've got 1 island and you've got 2 safeties. And you've got Barnes in the middle who looks like a player. That's a great start.

I think our defense is pretty damned good.

The positive is we have blues and we have blues at virtually every level of the defense.

Blue Chips
Defensive Line: Kenny Clark
Outside Linebacker: Z Smith
Cornerback: Jaire Alexander

Red Chips
Defensive Line: None
Outside Linebacker: Rashan Gary (and ascending)
Safety: Adrian Amos and Darnell Savage (and ascending)

I think an honest assessment of this defense has over half the unit at a blue or red chip level. That is honestly incredible.

Hope for Starter Quality
Defensive Line: Kingsley Keke (definitely think we have hope for him to be a solid pass rusher and be a quality starter in Year 3)
Inside Linebacker: Kris Barnes (no reason to not put him here after his strong rookie year)

That means I think we have 8 of the 11 positions already spoken for with not needing to do anything further.

Holes
Defensive Line: Could use another 3 Tech. Someone to take pressure off Clark and can hold up in the run. Right now we have Lowry and Lancaster in this role which I think can be improved and should be improved. I also think Montravious Adams is better than both and should be brought back if he's super cheap which I can't see why he wouldn't be.

Inside Linebacker: I think we need another ILB. Now that "other" could be Kamal Martin or Ty Summers if they make the jump but I think we will need another one. Kirksey also played great when he no longer had the green dot so maybe the keep him. Still can't get over how fast he looked vs Tampa. wft.

Cornerback: Our largest and most immediate area of need. We for sure need a CB2 and could look at upgrading at CB3.

Safety: I actually think this is a strong need too as defenses go more and more to having 3 safety looks. I would say either look at a single high cover guy as Savage likes to be in that Robber role or get a bigger safety who can hit well and cover TE's/RB's well.



If I were to attack it, I think we want to hope we can get a CB in FA on a lower end, prove-it deal, and hope we can draft a top end CB in the draft. I think we need to get 2 CBs this offseason. I also think there is good opportunity to get a DL on the cheap for a short term deal.

As for safety and ILB, I think the draft presents better options for safety here. Safeties have a reputation of not being coveted and I think there is a real opportunity to get a stud in that 2nd/3rd round that could really elevate our defense.

Positions I am prioritizing in this draft:

1. Cornerback
Defensive Line
OT
WR
S
ILB (if the value is amazing and we are looking at a field tilter)

It's not a mess, but it'll be tough to get guaranteed and safe starter quality to all 12 spots (I count 2 ILBs and a nickel corner as starting positions). We will need some development from within.

Gary and Z are fine edge rushers, Clark is a great 3-down DT, Jaire locks down one side. Those are all premium positions on D, so we have top talent exactly where you want top talent. Our safety duo is good. Savage cleaned up his rookie mistakes from a year ago, hopefully becomes a star year 3.

What we really could use on D is a play-making ILB1. That's the one premium position we're weak at. CBs 2 and 3 are up in the air. Gutey has some work to do...

Barnes is a dirt cheap and a promising ILB2 and Martin has potential. I'd rather have Sullivan as the 4th CB - he's not terrible but has a low ceiling. I think we may have to develop a DT to pair with Clark. Keke flashed some, maybe he can be it.

Our challenge is we have 3 holes on offense: would like a WR, RB and OT.

We also have 3 or 4 holes on defense: S, CB, DL, ILB and maybe another CB.

So even though we have a solid roster, we still do have enough holes to fill with maybe 2 coming from the draft and 1 coming from FA.

We more than likely will be able to only address 3 of our 6 to 7 holes. So I guarantee we will be hearing the same complaining in 2021 of "we don't have X" all year long.

go pak go wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 13:59

Our challenge is we have 3 holes on offense: would like a WR, RB and OT.

We also have 3 or 4 holes on defense: S, CB, DL, ILB and maybe another CB.

So even though we have a solid roster, we still do have enough holes to fill with maybe 2 coming from the draft and 1 coming from FA.

We more than likely will be able to only address 3 of our 6 to 7 holes. So I guarantee we will be hearing the same complaining in 2021 of "we don't have X" all year long.

I don't see all of those as holes. S, RB, WR, and ILB are not holes in my opinion. There are either positions where depth is needed or you would like to see a starter upgrade, but that isn't critical.

Going to NEED a CB for sure. OT and DL are probably other big needs, but not as big.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 14:07

go pak go wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 13:59

Our challenge is we have 3 holes on offense: would like a WR, RB and OT.

We also have 3 or 4 holes on defense: S, CB, DL, ILB and maybe another CB.

So even though we have a solid roster, we still do have enough holes to fill with maybe 2 coming from the draft and 1 coming from FA.

We more than likely will be able to only address 3 of our 6 to 7 holes. So I guarantee we will be hearing the same complaining in 2021 of "we don't have X" all year long.

I don't see all of those as holes. S, RB, WR, and ILB are not holes in my opinion.

I agree. Doesn't mean it won't end up filling 80% of the conversation on this forum for the next 365 days.

Because we all know it will when we don't spend significant resources on those positions.

I will say though that I think safety is one low key position I would be happy to look at the first two days of the draft. Like I said, there is often time great value in the 2nd/3rd round at safety and I think getting a potential field tilter could really help our defense out.

Time travel and take TJ.

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 16:05

Time travel and take TJ.

That's pretty much it. They need a Delorean smiley.

I look at the three tiers (DBs, LBs, and DLine) like this.

First, you do what you can to bring another player to the LB tier. Barnes has been great, Kirksey has his moments, and guys like Martin are decent depth, but they do have some areas of concern and they seem to get dinged up a lot. So you look for a way to bring in a quality starter at ILB. I think if you were forced to only acquire ONE new GOOD starter, it has to be here. (Maybe Kirksey could be that is he doesn’t wear the dot and bear the burden of leadership.)

Second, the saying goes that you never can have enough good DBs. I agree. Draft a potential starter. Then, get another CB or S. It’d be nice to have a guy like Micah Hyde who could do both but also has an enforcer role. (I don’t see Amos being an enforcer, but how knows next year.)

Third, you always want to develop more at DLine. Lancaster is an over-achiever. Nothing wrong with that and you want some of those guys. But bring in a vet for this if you can. (Not Snacks. We want more consistency.)

I really would like to see us move to an even front.

Gary Clark keke Z. Is a really good starting 4. I'm expecting Preston to be cut so added depth is needed but I think they like the upside of Garvin. Drafting an interior guy for depth and future role is a need. I do like some of these DT prospects.

I will say I'm not against the watt talk. Sure he would have to be cheaper and hes not the guy he was but hes still pretty damn good. Adding him with this group for is childhood team would be pretty nasty.

Lbs. On the fence with kirksey bc i think he can play.
Martin Barnes Kirksey is fine. The 2 young guys should be better year 2. Martin has the explosive trait just needs to hone in. I'm all for drafting a guy like baron browning mid rounds. He has the sideline to sideline speed and can thump. I also think Jabril Cox has been talked here and I think I personally slept on him. His upside is really nice. Plus athlete and good in coverage. He was the best blitzer from the 2nd level at the sr bowl.

Secondary. We need a starter here. I like some prospects early and maybe some development dudes later but overall a weak class. I do not.. I mean do not want a rookie forced to be a full time starter. This should be a FA. William Jackson is my guy. 4.3 speed and 27. He has been solid with cincy. I dont think he breaks the bank. Him and jaire is a big upgrade to jaire and king.
As the draft a mid round guy like Michigan's Ambry Thomas fits. Fast and athletic.

Savage and amos are strong starters. If savage takes another step this could be the best duo. I do agree that having 3 safeties is big. Raven green cant stay healthy. Finding a guy like him would be nice. Maybe scott is that guy. He did flash some in limited duty.

I really think the d has the pieces. Finding one more play maker and depth and this group is top 5. It will be interesting with a new DC but there is alot to like

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

31 Jan 2021 10:39

Savage and amos are strong starters. If savage takes another step this could be the best duo. I do agree that having 3 safeties is big. Raven green cant stay healthy. Finding a guy like him would be nice. Maybe scott is that guy. He did flash some in limited duty.

There were a lot of those guys available last year. I would like to pull the trigger this year if one of those dynamic guys is available. Sucks so bad that we actually pulled the trigger on one and turned out he didn't have the balls to play what was being asked of him. Like the perfect player on paper.

Cdragon wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 16:17

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 16:05

Time travel and take TJ.

That's pretty much it. They need a Delorean smiley.

Already been done in an alternate universe.

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

31 Jan 2021 10:39

Savage and amos are strong starters. If savage takes another step this could be the best duo. I do agree that having 3 safeties is big. Raven green cant stay healthy. Finding a guy like him would be nice. Maybe scott is that guy. He did flash some in limited duty.

Damned shame our lasting memory of him all offseason is going to be him unable to defend a pass.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 14:07

go pak go wrote: ↑

30 Jan 2021 13:59

Our challenge is we have 3 holes on offense: would like a WR, RB and OT.

We also have 3 or 4 holes on defense: S, CB, DL, ILB and maybe another CB.

So even though we have a solid roster, we still do have enough holes to fill with maybe 2 coming from the draft and 1 coming from FA.

We more than likely will be able to only address 3 of our 6 to 7 holes. So I guarantee we will be hearing the same complaining in 2021 of "we don't have X" all year long.

I don't see all of those as holes. S, RB, WR, and ILB are not holes in my opinion. There are either positions where depth is needed or you would like to see a starter upgrade, but that isn't critical.

Going to NEED a CB for sure. OT and DL are probably other big needs, but not as big.

I agree. S is not a hole, it is a +. WR is not a hole, it is a +. RB is not a hole, it is a +. And if the Packers find a way to keep Jones it is the best group of RB's in the league.

OT is a hole. CB #2 is a hole. Dline is a neutral.

M. Adams needs to go. He is a bust.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

31 Jan 2021 02:40

I look at the three tiers (DBs, LBs, and DLine) like this.

First, you do what you can to bring another player to the LB tier. Barnes has been great, Kirksey has his moments, and guys like Martin are decent depth, but they do have some areas of concern and they seem to get dinged up a lot. So you look for a way to bring in a quality starter at ILB. I think if you were forced to only acquire ONE new GOOD starter, it has to be here. (Maybe Kirksey could be that is he doesn’t wear the dot and bear the burden of leadership.)

Second, the saying goes that you never can have enough good DBs. I agree. Draft a potential starter. Then, get another CB or S. It’d be nice to have a guy like Micah Hyde who could do both but also has an enforcer role. (I don’t see Amos being an enforcer, but how knows next year.)

Third, you always want to develop more at DLine. Lancaster is an over-achiever. Nothing wrong with that and you want some of those guys. But bring in a vet for this if you can. (Not Snacks. We want more consistency.)

If you want to look at it from a historical Super Bowl perspective, here's one angle to consider:

1996 D was a 4-3. Consistent run stopping ability and pass rush with Reggie White, Santana Dotson, Gilbert Brown and Sean Jones. Hall of Fame quality blitz threat with Leroy Butler. Better than average LB corp with Wayne Simmons, Brian Williams and George Koonce. All-Pro quality safeties (2 safeties): Leroy Butler and Eugene Robinson. Highly capable CBs Craig Newsome and Doug Evans. Incredible substitutes for situational defenses: Mike Prior and Tyrone Williams.

2010 D was a 3-4. Consistent run stopping ability with BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett and Cullen Jenkins up front, with highly capable Howard Green for short yardage if necessary. Hall of Fame quality blitz threats (plural) with Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson. Better than average LB corp with AJ Hawk, Clay Matthews, Frank Zombo and Desmond Bishop. Incredible DB substitute: Sam Shields. Good enough substitutes available as needed: Tramon Williams, Morgan Burnett, maybe more.

2020 D was a 4-3. Fill in the blanks _________________.

2021 D should be _________________________________.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2021 05:07

I agree. S is not a hole, it is a +. WR is not a hole, it is a +. RB is not a hole, it is a +. And if the Packers find a way to keep Jones it is the best group of RB's in the league.

OT is a hole. CB #2 is a hole. Dline is a neutral.

M. Adams needs to go. He is a bust.

So we have 3 safety spots and 2 of them are filled.

We have 3 RB spots and 1 of them is filled but a virtually unproven rookie.

We have 5 to 6 Dline spots and have 2 of them who are likely locks in Clark and Keke.

We have 2 OT spots and 3 OT starters on the roster. Why is OT a clear hole but safety, RB, DL isn't?

I'm not disputing that OT isn't a hole. But I am saying there are virtually holes at every position of this roster that would justify draft capital except at the QB position, TE position, IOL and probably Edge position (at least high draft capital).

The one spot that HAS to get filled one way or the other is CB2.

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2021 07:49

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2021 05:07

I agree. S is not a hole, it is a +. WR is not a hole, it is a +. RB is not a hole, it is a +. And if the Packers find a way to keep Jones it is the best group of RB's in the league.

OT is a hole. CB #2 is a hole. Dline is a neutral.

M. Adams needs to go. He is a bust.

So we have 3 safety spots and 2 of them are filled.

We have 3 RB spots and 1 of them is filled but a virtually unproven rookie.

We have 5 to 6 Dline spots and have 2 of them who are likely locks in Clark and Keke.

We have 2 OT spots and 3 OT starters on the roster. Why is OT a clear hole but safety, RB, DL isn't?

I'm not disputing that OT isn't a hole. But I am saying there are virtually holes at every position of this roster that would justify draft capital except at the QB position, TE position, IOL and probably Edge position (at least high draft capital).

The one spot that HAS to get filled one way or the other is CB2.

yep, we have to decide are we going to pay King starter salary and play strictly zone coverage, or replace him with a high draft pick that can play both Man and zone coverage, seems like a no brainer to me.

same at WR, are we going to continue as a one dominate receiver that can shed and get open FAST, or add another that can share that burden?

yes we do have holes elsewhere on this team, but are they as pressing as those two? not to me.

I have no problem with a WR but I am certainly not going to reach for it.

CB is the one spot I would be in favor of us seeing if we can find a good find in FA.

Though that is going to be tough because even though I think there is going to be a lot on the market, we are also strapped for cash.