Packers Huddle

some think we already posses that player

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/n ... 097473002/

the mere mention of this mans name will cause readers to pause, aint that the guy we hated and where so glad he was fired, finally? once his stud Star left to go back to Oakland his defenses where never quite the same, could Savage close up the short center of our defense as Woody did years ago?

sorry! forgot most dont subscribe to jsonline

GREEN BAY - There’s a reason the Dom Capers defense, and all its offshoots, call slot cornerback the “star” position.

It’s a spot ready-made for talented players because they line up in the middle of the action as cover men, run defenders and blitzers. It’s where Rod Woodson and Charles Woodson had the biggest seasons of their Pro Football Hall of Fame careers.

The star position still exists in today’s NFL in defenses that are rooted in Capers'. That includes Vic Fangio, a Capers’ protégé who’s head coach in Denver. It includes Brandon Staley, a Fangio protégé and new head coach of the Los Angeles Chargers. And it includes Joe Barry, the Green Bay Packers’ new defensive coordinator and a Staley protégé.


And it means that filling the star role is no small matter for the Packers in 2021.

The most obvious candidate is Chandon Sullivan, who manned the slot position last year and recently re-signed with the Packers for one year and $2.1 million.

But Barry has another option in a more talented young defensive back already on his roster. It would require a position change and create a hole in the starting lineup, because it would mean moving Darnell Savage from safety to slot. But if it’s more playmaking the Packers are looking for it might be the way to go.


“They’re not going to move Jaire Alexander in there,” said former Packers safety LeRoy Butler, a two-time finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. “He needs to be covering the No. 1 guy. You need to put (Savage) in there, he can do some damage. This guy can be a real force.”

Pay wall, not paying. Copy and paste.

Ugh, I don't have access to the article but let me tell you how sad that would make me.

Savage's speed and range on the back end as a deep center-fielder, in combination with Jaire being a stud on one outside CB spot, can essentially provide the secondary with an "extra player" in that you don't really need two "safeties." You can keep Savage back and shade away from Jaire's side and you essentially have over-the-top help for the whole field with only one safety.

This means you can rush five more often. Or play with more DL on early downs. Or just generally be more aggressive in the front 7.

Making Savage, essentially, a front-7 player instead of a deep player would squander some of the value he provides, not to mention that I'd prefer a much more physical player in that role with sound tackling.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 08:37

Ugh, I don't have access to the article but let me tell you how sad that would make me.

Savage's speed and range on the back end as a deep center-fielder, in combination with Jaire being a stud on one outside CB spot, can essentially provide the secondary with an "extra player" in that you don't really need two "safeties." You can keep Savage back and shade away from Jaire's side and you essentially have over-the-top help for the whole field with only one safety.

This means you can rush five more often. Or play with more DL on early downs. Or just generally be more aggressive in the front 7.

Making Savage, essentially, a front-7 player instead of a deep player would squander some of the value he provides, not to mention that I'd prefer a much more physical player in that role with sound tackling.

draft Eric Molden of WA.to play deep safety, or that WAshington kid from TCU, both have range and a ton of football IQ, I disagree, I think his production would amp up closer to the los, imo SAvage is the best safety we've has since Collins

Yoop wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:17

draft Eric Molden of WA.to play deep safety, or that WAshington kid from TCU, both have range and a ton of football IQ, I disagree, I think his production would amp up closer to the los, imo SAvage is the best safety we've has since Collins

Draft Molden to play the literal perfect position for him--the nickel spot.

You're right, Savage is our best safety since Collins. Which means he should remain a safety. We didn't try to move Collins to the Charles Woodson role. We mostly kept him in deep coverage and occasionally blitzed him

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:21

Yoop wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:17

draft Eric Molden of WA.to play deep safety, or that WAshington kid from TCU, both have range and a ton of football IQ, I disagree, I think his production would amp up closer to the los, imo SAvage is the best safety we've has since Collins

Draft Molden to play the literal perfect position for him--the nickel spot.

You're right, Savage is our best safety since Collins. Which means he should remain a safety. We didn't try to move Collins to the Charles Woodson role. We mostly kept him in deep coverage and occasionally blitzed him

no but we moved Woody from outside in to play that star roll, and both Molden and Washington are smaller, Savage isn't big for a safety but he plays that way.

Yoop wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:27

no but we moved Woody from outside in to play that star roll, and both Molden and Washington are smaller, Savage isn't big for a safety but he plays that way.

Correct; an instinctive playmaker whose long speed is declining with age was moved inside where long speed matters a bit less and c.o.d., read-and-react, physicality, and instincts matter the most.

Savage is a playmaking safety with great long speed, mediocre tackling, and perfectly acceptable change of direction. He seems to have good instincts but his read-and-react is still developing as he's a young player. He should not move inside where his strengths are mitigated and his weaknesses could be exposed.

Molden, from U of Washington, ran a disappointing 4.6 40, but is a playmaker with great instincts. IF we were to draft Molden, moving him to free safety, where he has a ton of range to cover and is not very fast, would be a bad idea. Moving him to strong safety, where his lack of size (despite his physicality) is a detriment, would be an average-to-bad idea.

Moehring, the draft's top safety, is probably off the board by 29. But if he is not, then taking a safety to play safety so that we can move our safety to nickel CB would be a pretty bad idea.

The whole thing makes very little sense to me. The "star cornerback" is basically a mix of CB and LB where instincts, read-and-react, and physical tackling trump long speed. It's exactly the opposite player profile from Savage. Savage is a very similar player profile to Collins. We should use him similarly to Collins. That maximizes his effectiveness.

If you want to fill the "star role" find me an instinctive player who is a physical tackler with fluid hips and I don't care if he runs a 4.55 instead of a 4.35.

So everyone kept saying that Savage got better once Mike put him in that "robber" role.

I am not going to claim I know football. What does "Robber" role mean for safety? I assumed basically once Savage exceled there that our hope of him being that deep safety "Earl Thomas type" was over.

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:46

So everyone kept saying that Savage got better once Mike put him in that "robber" role.

I am not going to claim I know football. What does "Robber" role mean for safety? I assumed basically once Savage exceled there that our hope of him being that deep safety "Earl Thomas type" was over.

That sounds like it refutes everything I think I know! Uh oh

Year 3 is a big year for Savage. So far he has looked very promising at times, but like HaHa with speed at other times. Really hope he puts it together and is a strength for our 2021 defense, consistently.

And because the article also mentions sullivan...man I thought Chandon was pretty competent/satisfactory before the NFCCG, but Brady obviously did not. Brady relentlessly looked for him and picked on him, and his decision to do that looked smart.

Now that other teams saw that, Chandon is going to need to get better and show he is not another Wil Redmond.

No one has safety as a draft need, but if we pull off another Gutey special by drafting one high it may be with this star role in mind. Either by drafting a player suited for the slot role, or someone with FS credentials who'd enable Savage to make the move.

I personally would like to see how Savage does in year 3 of playing safety, but do admit he might do great in the slot. Savage improved a lot from his rookie season - he eliminated the rookie mental errors that led to some big gains for the opposition. That was very encouraging. The next step would be to become more instinctive and get more turnovers and big plays.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:48

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:46

So everyone kept saying that Savage got better once Mike put him in that "robber" role.

I am not going to claim I know football. What does "Robber" role mean for safety? I assumed basically once Savage exceled there that our hope of him being that deep safety "Earl Thomas type" was over.

That sounds like it refutes everything I think I know! Uh oh

I don't know if you're being facetious or not. I genuinely don't have a solid understanding of the robber role that got brought out about Savage a lot last year.

From what I can currently tell, the robber coverage was brought into place as a counter to the RPO's and multi-faceted offensive attacks.

Essentially the safety may come up and take a slot WR or take the outside WR depending on the route but the whole premise is to try and disguise the coverage long enough so the offense doesn't know who is making the coverage. You want your robbers to be very athletic and instinctive so they can make and execute the play quickly and robber coverage often leads to a higher chance of interceptions.

Robber coverage also leaves the safety in one on one coverage with a WR often without CB help (we saw this in the NFC Title game that Savage screwed up).

This would not be that single high safety but after reading more, Savage is a good candidate for that type of role.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:40

Yoop wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:27

no but we moved Woody from outside in to play that star roll, and both Molden and Washington are smaller, Savage isn't big for a safety but he plays that way.

Correct; an instinctive playmaker whose long speed is declining with age was moved inside where long speed matters a bit less and c.o.d., read-and-react, physicality, and instincts matter the most.

Savage is a playmaking safety with great long speed, mediocre tackling, and perfectly acceptable change of direction. He seems to have good instincts but his read-and-react is still developing as he's a young player. He should not move inside where his strengths are mitigated and his weaknesses could be exposed.

Molden, from U of Washington, ran a disappointing 4.6 40, but is a playmaker with great instincts. IF we were to draft Molden, moving him to free safety, where he has a ton of range to cover and is not very fast, would be a bad idea. Moving him to strong safety, where his lack of size (despite his physicality) is a detriment, would be an average-to-bad idea.

Moehring, the draft's top safety, is probably off the board by 29. But if he is not, then taking a safety to play safety so that we can move our safety to nickel CB would be a pretty bad idea.

The whole thing makes very little sense to me. The "star cornerback" is basically a mix of CB and LB where instincts, read-and-react, and physical tackling trump long speed. It's exactly the opposite player profile from Savage. Savage is a very similar player profile to Collins. We should use him similarly to Collins. That maximizes his effectiveness.

If you want to fill the "star role" find me an instinctive player who is a physical tackler with fluid hips and I don't care if he runs a 4.55 instead of a 4.35.

Woodson won DPOY award playing the Star roll, he still had some speed, the Star is the robber, he's not just a slot corner, but could do it, according to this article and others I've read the Star is the hybrid will lber/ or rover that has the task of covering the TE, RB, or the slot receiver, you want your best all around player in that position.

there is a difference, some teams want a larger player in that position, but most seem to prefer a guy the size of Savage simply because they are more versatile, here some more about the position.

Players who have the speed of a safety, the tackling ability of a linebacker and can cover like a nickel back are coveted prospects on the recruiting trail. A program like Alabama can sell elite prospects on the success other well-known players had at that position. That is an advantage that Smart is hoping to gain at Georgia.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/georg ... -practice/


In a 2012 press conference, Saban was asked to explain the origins of the STAR position and how it fits into the defense. The Alabama coach revealed that it was a product of his days as defensive coordinator of the Cleveland Browns under Belichick. (Begin at the 5:30 mark.)

After his stint with the Browns, Saban went on to become the head coach at Michigan State, where Todd Grantham served as his defensive line coach. It was Grantham who brought the STAR position to Georgia when he became the Bulldogs’ defensive coordinator in 2010.

this is a great article concerning Georgia drafting players with Star position skill sets, and Savage would have been high on there lists of prospects, heres a little more, but I think everyone would enjoy the read.

This is part of the reason the STAR position is important for the Bulldogs; it isn’t one that players can simply be taught how to play. Because of the demanding nature of the position, whoever plays STAR has to possess a unique set of natural qualities that aren’t too common.

Players who have the speed of a safety, the tackling ability of a linebacker and can cover like a nickel back are coveted prospects on the recruiting trail. A program like Alabama can sell elite prospects on the success other well-known players had at that position. That is an advantage that Smart is hoping to gain at Georgia.

Smart’s ability to sell the STAR position might have played a role in landing players like Gibbs and LeCounte. In a defense with proven players, arguably the most important position will be manned by an underclassman.

might be hard to draft a player with elite skills at all three aspects, and specially hard at the end of round 1 or 2 to find a ready to play guy,

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 10:15

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:48

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:46

So everyone kept saying that Savage got better once Mike put him in that "robber" role.

I am not going to claim I know football. What does "Robber" role mean for safety? I assumed basically once Savage exceled there that our hope of him being that deep safety "Earl Thomas type" was over.

That sounds like it refutes everything I think I know! Uh oh

I don't know if you're being facetious or not.

I'm not. I genuinely am being presented with information that seems to contradict my initial read and assumptions. It would help if I could read the article.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 11:16

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 10:15

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 09:48

That sounds like it refutes everything I think I know! Uh oh

I don't know if you're being facetious or not.

I'm not. I genuinely am being presented with information that seems to contradict my initial read and assumptions. It would help if I could read the article.

I added it to my first post, then brought more about the position with my last post, and I don't think it refutes your opinions as much as it adds to them, basically it's the same as the 3 safety nickel except it requires better coverage ability, so ya want those CB coverage skills from a a little bigger body.

look how we used Haywood and Hyde, Capers liked Hyde over Hayward (specially after Haywards injury) simply because he was bigger and more stout in the box, it's my contention that Capers was looking for a Star to replace Woodson then, Burnett seemed to play the part but lacked coverage ability.

this Dougherty article caught my eye simply because Barry stressed the importance of the position in his defensive plans

I’ve thought a lot about this honestly. Like what if Moehrig is there at 29. I can’t imagine the hands down undisputed best safety in the class lasting especially past Baltimore but I think you have to make that pick. Move Savage into the nickel role. His speed blitzing off the edge or manning up and taking away the slot would be valuable. Or play Savage and Moe deep and bring Amos down in the box to play a likebacker role.

Ultimately my guy in this draft is Molden for the nickel role. I’d take him in the first. I think he’s a star as in All-star. I can’t imagine a CB with that good of instincts and that much fight failing. He’s a playmaker designed for a do it all role in the nickel position.

I like Molden a lot. But his 40 time genuinely concerns me. I did not expect it to be above 4.6

I know not everyone is on board with measurable cutoffs, but a CB with LB speed is tough for me. If he comes here, though, that nickel job is his.

As for the rest. I just am sick of three safety looks. It feels like a compromise because we don’t have enough good CBs or good enough LBs. If we’re talking a JOK out Isaiah Simmons hybrid type of guy, I can see that use. But putting three safeties on the field because we don’t have any CBs who can pull off the role Charles Woodson and then Casey Hayward played for us, to me, is a stopgap. Not something I want to do intentionally.

Going full TT there drafting a safety to play corner.