Packers Huddle

The latest tanking scandal involving at least the Dolphins and the Browns has the potential to force the league to change some things up.

I think the basic idea of giving teams that suck the means to catch up via higher draft picks and waiver claim order is pretty good. Especially when it's combined with rookie wage scale (you no longer get financially punished for getting the 1st overall pick) and the fact that the cap that prevents richer teams from buying a long-term competitive advantage.

If you get stuck being bad, it's due to a team's own mistakes and a vicious cycle of hiring and firing leaders before they can fully build their team. "Earning" high picks also serves as something to keep the fans of bad teams active throughout the season. It's never too early to talk about the draft.

However, tanking is terrible for many reasons. First of all, with the rise of gambling and the revenue that brings, some teams not attempting to win just sucks. It makes for bad product on TV. It's also against athletic ethos of striving to win and develop yourself every game.

So what do y'all think should be done?

- Nothing - tanking is great!
- Draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs?
- Some kind of draft order reverse from now for teams that miss the playoffs, so the worst teams get mid-round picks and the first pick should go to the team that missed the playoffs most narrowly?
- A draft order that straight up rewards winning: 1st pick to the SB winner, and then in descending order?

I personally think a draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs is the best solution. That lets fans dream of the high dream pick, while not giving incentive to tank.

Dunno whether to copy NBA's system directly or do it a little bit differently.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 08:44

I personally think a draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs is the best solution. That lets fans dream of the high dream pick, while not giving incentive to tank.

Dunno whether to copy NBA's system directly or do it a little bit differently.

It is a problem with no easy solution. Tampa pulled its starters in 2015, at the half, while up against the Saints, to secure the #1 that year.

Teams tank all the time in the NBA. A lottery seems to incentivize many teams tanking rather than two teams competing for the #1 pick.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 08:47

salmar80 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 08:44

I personally think a draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs is the best solution. That lets fans dream of the high dream pick, while not giving incentive to tank.

Dunno whether to copy NBA's system directly or do it a little bit differently.

It is a problem with no easy solution. Tampa pulled its starters in 2015, at the half, while up against the Saints, to secure the #1 that year.

Teams tank all the time in the NBA. A lottery seems to incentivize many teams tanking rather than two teams competing for the #1 pick.

Good to know. I didn't know tanking still happens in NBA. Not a system worth copying, then.

I mean, maybe do a non-weighted lottery for the 18 teams that miss the playoffs? Being worse than others would give zero benefit.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 08:37

If you get stuck being bad, it's due to a team's own mistakes and a vicious cycle of hiring and firing leaders before they can fully build their team. "Earning" high picks also serves as something to keep the fans of bad teams active throughout the season. It's never too early to talk about the draft.

this all day, the way we do the draft now, worst team record= 1st overall draft pick is fine, the problem is as mentioned poor FO decisions wipe out advantage of drafting 1 or early top ten or so, year after year some loser teams draft high and because the teams are so poorly run and managed they remain cellar dwellers, Detroit, Jacksonville, Miami, need to fix there FO, till they do that no amount of tanking and throwing games to pick early will help.

the pressure to win now is so great FO people become compulsive, we see that with the way teams throw rookie QB's on the field when a year of grooming would certainly prepare them better, baptism under fire isn't always a wise choice.

As a fan ( a average fan) why would I dish out hard earned money on tickets to go watch a team knowly tank or throw games? reality is that many top 10 picks never play up to draft slot used to pick them, theres no guarantee's with draft picks, just simply better odds, to me, that is not worth getting a reputation as a tanker team.

maybe I'am old fashion.

I would do a Draft lottery of the bottom 3-5 teams. Those are the super premium picks. I would even lean just bottom 3. Equal odds. No incentive for a bottom finish. No one else is tanking to finish with the 14th pick instead of the 16th, etc.

NCF wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 09:41

I would do a Draft lottery of the bottom 3-5 teams. Those are the super premium picks. I would even lean just bottom 3. Equal odds. No incentive for a bottom finish. No one else is tanking to finish with the 14th pick instead of the 16th, etc.

Yeah, I was just thinking along those lines. Random lottery, equal odds. Maybe top 3 or top 5. Those are the super premium picks. And like you said, no one is tanking for 14 instead of 16.

So did someone inform Hue Jackson that if he took the money he participated in a criminal enterprise? He put that toothpaste back in the tube pretty quick.

Teams will tank so there has to be more incentive for guys to come forward with evidence. Flores should have gone to the NFL immediately when the alleged offer was made. Then they can run a sting operation. If they can catch somebody in the act of making offers like that or paying off people and there are real consequences people will be more leery of trying it. But then it becomes, "I hope we win." Wink, wink.

If you randomize the order, teams will tank trying to get into what ever the threshold is. Is a one and done in an away playoff berth worth a chance to grab the #1 or a really high pick if you are swapping 18 teams?

Maybe during SB week you pick the number of slots that get randomized. 0 to 6 maybe. So the order could remain the same or up to 6 teams get randomly swapped. Then nobody knows if losing is really going to help get a better spot. But again somebody will tank to get toward the bottom.

The only other thing would be extra picks for end of the year wins. Maybe the you can get an extra 3rd, 4th, or 5th in the last 3 weeks by winning.

But you are never going to stop it totally.

Randomize the top 5 or so, but I would not take a whole lot of action because (as has been said) teams will adjust accordingly no matter what.

What's notable to me is that neither the Browns nor Dolphins have really changed their fortunes very much. The draft is still kind of a crapshoot at the end of the day -- that elusive Franchise QB pick might just flop altogether -- so that helps even the odds. Yeah, the Browns got into the playoffs a year ago, but they seem to be on the downswing now.

More than that, though, I think the kinds of organizations that "tank" are also not the kinds of organizations that can build a winning culture in the first place, so honestly, let them. A lottery system at the top can help avoid making it more severe, but I think that's about the best you can do.

Some complacent front offices tank without even knowing that they're tanking.

First person to accurately cynically rank the top 5 Packers tank years beginning in 1973 through 2021 gets an offseason kudo.

Start by looking at the Packers list of top draft picks starting in 1973.

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:12

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

With sports betting everywhere now, I think the NFL has to come down hard.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:12

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

With sports betting everywhere now, I think the NFL has to come down hard.

yep, times have sure changed the league, Hornung and Karres suspended for a season for betting, now we here of owners betting on there own team, not to win, but to lose

I have always been intrigued of changing the draft order to flip 1st and 2nd round.

Maybe keep the playoff teams unadjusted, but teams 1 - 18 flip order every other round.

So team #1 picks 1st in the 1st round but then picks 18th in the 2nd round. Team #18 picks 18th in the 1st round but has the 33rd overall pick (1st in the 2nd round) That would help even out the draft capital given out to non-playoff teams.

Right now draft capital is just so heavily skewed to stinky teams. I don't think it's just about fixing #1 - #5 in draft order. I think it's about evening the playing field between #9 and #18 who are usually only separated by a game or two anyways in the standings.

I also think this would increase trade activity. Team #18 can reasonably trade in the top 5 to 10 if they really want to.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:12

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

With sports betting everywhere now, I think the NFL has to come down hard.

Yeah, gambling is the fundamental change that tilts the field against tanking.

In basketball, one homerun pick can have a whole lot larger impact on winning than in the NFL with it's 53-man rosters. For sucky teams, high picks sell a lotta hope, jerseys and tickets. Otherwise I'd argue that the benefits of tanking have been small enough that it hasn't been a big issue.

The Pats haven't picked 1st overall since 1993, they've done pretty good regardless. GB hasn't had 1st overall pick since 1959, and that was QB Randy Duncan who never played a snap for the Packers.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:12

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

Totally agree. Somehow things need to stay above board. We know the NFL is a business, so by definition things like this and others are going to happen.

Yes, there has to be some way to punish the offenders. Suppose the lawyers will negotiate something ........... whatever

salmar80 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:49

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 10:12

Come down hard in incentives for tanking.

With sports betting everywhere now, I think the NFL has to come down hard.

Yeah, gambling is the fundamental change that tilts the field against tanking.

In basketball, one homerun pick can have a whole lot larger impact on winning than in the NFL with it's 53-man rosters. For sucky teams, high picks sell a lotta hope, jerseys and tickets. Otherwise I'd argue that the benefits of tanking have been small enough that it hasn't been a big issue.

The Pats haven't picked 1st overall since 1993, they've done pretty good regardless. GB hasn't had 1st overall pick since 1959, and that was QB Randy Duncan who never played a snap for the Packers.

Lots of head scratchers here ........... not just in Round 1 either. Some gems as well. Haven't taken the time to look at the Packers regular season record compared to the draft pick though. 'Tanking' obviously doe NOT equal plain ole 'terrible Packers season'.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

We seen how you build cultures in the NFL, winning and losing.

2018 would have been so dumb to tank for a draft pick. Culture spans years, good and bad. Unfortunately our special teams has its own culture spanning HC’s and GM’s right now.


Play to win every damn game.

You can’t break &%$@ culture easily. Miami gunna be bad for a long time.

BF004 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 12:40

You can’t break &%$@ culture easily. Miami gunna be bad for a long time.

This team begs to differ.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 13:32

BF004 wrote: ↑

05 Feb 2022 12:40

You can’t break &%$@ culture easily. Miami gunna be bad for a long time.

This team begs to differ.

You think that was easy for Cincinnati???

30 years to the contrary says differently.

Flash in the pan seasons surely will happen, although I really like both of Cincy’s QB and HC right now and think they will be sustainably good. They’ve basically drafted a perennial MVP and a perennial offense player of the year candidate in the last 22 months.


They’ve, against all odds, got Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams in back to back drafts, under 25, on rookie contracts.