I mostly agree with ur post. The roster is the bigger problem though. Defensive coordinator ,special teams coach or head coach is always the excuse. It starts with the gm and the roster he puts on the field. Wake the $%@# up people.Labrev wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 16:59I called for us to yeet McCarthy well before folks realized he was the problem.
The situation now is the same as then, we just have not (yet) let the issue long enough to lead to losing seasons.
That issue being, LaFleur (like late stage McCarthy) has no scheme. There is no larger plan for strategically moving the ball downfield, just some vague hope that Rodgers will turn it on and play MVP ball, without changing our approach to adjust for the very new personnel group.
LaFleur was LOST last year when he had to play Love, no different than how McCarthy was when he had to play Hundley.
We stuck by McCarthy that long because "well he's a SuperBowl-winning coach, dont'cha know!" Now, it's "MLF's winning record is historic!" Those refrains are just suppositions that somehow they will stop being mediocre rather than seeing the situation for what it is.
Hope is not a winning strategy.
Matt LaFleur
Moderators: NCF, salmar80, BF004, APB, Packfntk
the problem is if you yeet a 3-3 coach thats been in the NFCCG twice in 3 years is that no coach of any quality will ever sign on to coach your team. We would be left to choose from the Ben Mcadoos and Marc Tressmans of the worldLabrev wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 17:05We aren't going to fire him because the Conventional Wisdom is you only fire coaches after you actually suffer losing seasons. The fact that that's how it's done doesn't make it smart, though. Some people went so far as to say we should have waited even longer to fire McCarthy to be "classy" -! They would have made players continue to be part of a clear Lost Cause for another four weeks just to keep up appearances.
It seems straightforwardly justifiable to me that if you believe you will end the year under .500, you need not wait for that to happen.
Do what you need to do to turn things around, let conventionalists go on about "precedent"-nonsense.
"You guys are watching too much Andy Herman"-P23
What Lafluer brought to this offense that worked, could still now, minus the loss of cohesion along the OL, the lack of a receiver that a defense has to game plan for, and a defense that could consistently stop the run.
and of course Rodgers playing well below his norm.
not much has changed really except the loss of Adams, and depending on some studs on the OL, and Newman becoming even better, none of that has worked out as hoped for, it's a testament to Dillon and Jones that they average 5 plus a touch, not today it looked like, last year minus Bahk and Jenkins our run blocking has seemed much better,
when we promoted Stenavich, Luke Butkus took over as OL coach, lis, a less talented OL performed better, not everyone becomes a great position coach.
I also think Stenavich is part of the problem, it's the little stuff that ya neglect to keep sharp that cost ya, and Hackett may have been good at dotting at the tee's and making sure everyone was on the same page, Skills Stenavich may not be as good at.
I think we miss the run stopping ability of Barnes, Walker for all his gifts, can't shed blocks yet and is often over playing his gap, ya could have driven a sherman tank through that cut back lane today, but sloppy tackling, poor angles of pursuit, well he's not the only one guilty of that, over all we are inconsistent, a good play here and there, followed by a low % play and we have to punt, good thing we picked up O Donald, or the scores against our defense would shoot right up, he provides them with a long field, the longer you have to go the more chance for failure, our problems often, our defense gets worn out defending the pass, there gassed out when it comes time to stop the run, classic finish to todays game.
I'am waiting for Rodgers to say in a presser RELAX.
and of course Rodgers playing well below his norm.
not much has changed really except the loss of Adams, and depending on some studs on the OL, and Newman becoming even better, none of that has worked out as hoped for, it's a testament to Dillon and Jones that they average 5 plus a touch, not today it looked like, last year minus Bahk and Jenkins our run blocking has seemed much better,
when we promoted Stenavich, Luke Butkus took over as OL coach, lis, a less talented OL performed better, not everyone becomes a great position coach.
I also think Stenavich is part of the problem, it's the little stuff that ya neglect to keep sharp that cost ya, and Hackett may have been good at dotting at the tee's and making sure everyone was on the same page, Skills Stenavich may not be as good at.
I think we miss the run stopping ability of Barnes, Walker for all his gifts, can't shed blocks yet and is often over playing his gap, ya could have driven a sherman tank through that cut back lane today, but sloppy tackling, poor angles of pursuit, well he's not the only one guilty of that, over all we are inconsistent, a good play here and there, followed by a low % play and we have to punt, good thing we picked up O Donald, or the scores against our defense would shoot right up, he provides them with a long field, the longer you have to go the more chance for failure, our problems often, our defense gets worn out defending the pass, there gassed out when it comes time to stop the run, classic finish to todays game.
I'am waiting for Rodgers to say in a presser RELAX.
-
Scott4Pack
- Reactions:
- Posts: 2710
- Joined: 26 Mar 2020 03:41
- Location: New Mexico
Go back to Lombardi.
Winning the game is most fundamental in winning the Line Of Scrimmage. Work on winning the game there. Only then will other good things occur.
We saw the Jets do that very well today. And the Giants the week previous. And so on.
Winning the game is most fundamental in winning the Line Of Scrimmage. Work on winning the game there. Only then will other good things occur.
We saw the Jets do that very well today. And the Giants the week previous. And so on.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
-
German_Panzer
- Reactions:
- Posts: 744
- Joined: 14 Jul 2020 06:20
Football relies so much on schemes and scripted moves. Could some new coach really come in and take over right away? I think it is virtually impossible. What is possible is that you promote your assistant or defensive coach or maybe make #12 our playing HC. But we know stuff like that will not happen. Nobody ever did it and Murphy is a snowflake anyway. So why bother? LaFleur will try to heal from within, either by twitching here and there or by brutally trust in the time to heal.
What was the impression of Matt in his PC? How did Rodgers go along?
What was the impression of Matt in his PC? How did Rodgers go along?
I'm not saying fire him right now, but if it's not trending in the right direction by the halfway point and the blame lies mostly with him, then do what you must.Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 17:12the problem is if you yeet a 3-3 coach thats been in the NFCCG twice in 3 years is that no coach of any quality will ever sign on to coach your team. We would be left to choose from the Ben Mcadoos and Marc Tressmans of the worldLabrev wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 17:05We aren't going to fire him because the Conventional Wisdom is you only fire coaches after you actually suffer losing seasons. The fact that that's how it's done doesn't make it smart, though. Some people went so far as to say we should have waited even longer to fire McCarthy to be "classy" -! They would have made players continue to be part of a clear Lost Cause for another four weeks just to keep up appearances.
It seems straightforwardly justifiable to me that if you believe you will end the year under .500, you need not wait for that to happen.
Do what you need to do to turn things around, let conventionalists go on about "precedent"-nonsense.
I'm just saying I don't believe in him at this point. He's McCarthy.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Do u understand that it may not be a coaching issue?Labrev wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 18:06I'm not saying fire him right now, but if it's not trending in the right direction by the halfway point and the blame lies mostly with him, then do what you must.Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 17:12the problem is if you yeet a 3-3 coach thats been in the NFCCG twice in 3 years is that no coach of any quality will ever sign on to coach your team. We would be left to choose from the Ben Mcadoos and Marc Tressmans of the worldLabrev wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 17:05We aren't going to fire him because the Conventional Wisdom is you only fire coaches after you actually suffer losing seasons. The fact that that's how it's done doesn't make it smart, though. Some people went so far as to say we should have waited even longer to fire McCarthy to be "classy" -! They would have made players continue to be part of a clear Lost Cause for another four weeks just to keep up appearances.
It seems straightforwardly justifiable to me that if you believe you will end the year under .500, you need not wait for that to happen.
Do what you need to do to turn things around, let conventionalists go on about "precedent"-nonsense.
I'm just saying I don't believe in him at this point. He's McCarthy.
-
lupedafiasco
- Reactions:
- Posts: 4756
- Joined: 24 Mar 2020 17:17
The boneheaded coaching decisions under LaFleur are mounting. Hiring Mennenga. Hiring Drayton. Keeping Drayton throughout the 2021 season. Hiring Barry. Playing Turner at LT two years in a row in the playoffs. Making Jones the runner against the Buccs x2 in 2020. The inability to overcome road game omega collapses. The inability to get Jones the ball this year. Somehow being on board with the Love pick. Not embracing rookie playing time despite them being the clear best option to get in the field.
Cancelled by the forum elites.
It may not be a coaching issue? Sure, I understand that explanation, and I reject it.Realist wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 18:24Do u understand that it may not be a coaching issue?
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
We have a really poor receiver group with limited route options
A really poor oline that can't block.
Hard to blame the coach if wrs can't run routes and oline can't block.
We have two good linemen rotting on the bench. Yosh and Tom. We need to get our top quality on the field. That’s coaching.
The vanilla scheme, coaching.
Yal see Jets on their second to last drive after we got within a score? They ran a clever screen play and a counter Trey run that broke for big.
When’s the last screen we ran followed by a cheeky run play?
"You guys are watching too much Andy Herman"-P23
We have no threats that defenses have to game plan against. Aaron Jones maybe but mostly as a pass catcher imo.
I agree it's very vanilla but our receivers have such limited route options. Lazard is basically the only one with a few different options and he is ruvell martin with more reps.Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 19:54We have two good linemen rotting on the bench. Yosh and Tom. We need to get our top quality on the field. That’s coaching.
The vanilla scheme, coaching.
Yal see Jets on their second to last drive after we got within a score? They ran a clever screen play and a counter Trey run that broke for big.
When’s the last screen we ran followed by a cheeky run play?
Oline has been horrendous. I agree Yosh makes sense but right side stance may not be great for him aswell.
Our def has like 7 first round picks and multiple FA signings.
Off has one 1st round pick. Our best oline both off ACLs. Our highest paid off weapon is a Rb. It's just partly unlucky and bad construction of a team.
Yeah trading Adams and then replacing him with hammy Watkins was some abysmal GMingbud fox wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 20:27I agree it's very vanilla but our receivers have such limited route options. Lazard is basically the only one with a few different options and he is ruvell martin with more reps.Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 19:54We have two good linemen rotting on the bench. Yosh and Tom. We need to get our top quality on the field. That’s coaching.
The vanilla scheme, coaching.
Yal see Jets on their second to last drive after we got within a score? They ran a clever screen play and a counter Trey run that broke for big.
When’s the last screen we ran followed by a cheeky run play?
Oline has been horrendous. I agree Yosh makes sense but right side stance may not be great for him aswell.
Our def has like 7 first round picks and multiple FA signings.
Off has one 1st round pick. Our best oline both off ACLs. Our highest paid off weapon is a Rb. It's just partly unlucky and bad construction of a team.
"You guys are watching too much Andy Herman"-P23
Seriously though, looking like internal operations have gone to three people...Stenovich, Lafleur, and 12.
Before Hackett was just replaced with another internal promotion, are we sure this was the best move? Does "awesome OL coach" generally translate to OC?? Because Steno was an awesome OL coach. I have no idea what that means for the entirety of the offense.
The amount of hires that Lafleur has made that are looking to be awful is really adding up. He canned Pettine, who I thought was going to be great. I understand he wanted to get his own guy in there, but you have to remember...Barry worked for McVay and McVay had a chance to hire/promote Barry, and McVay took a hard pass.
Im starting to wonder if Lafleurs connections to talent is limited. Maybe everybody he knows that has promise and talent is already a part of the McVay/Shanahan tree. Remember those are Lafleurs buddies and those guys were already HCs when Lafleur was hired.
From hiring Mennenga and firing him, to the internal promotion of Drayton after the STs unit being the worst in the league, to hiring Barry who McVay passed on, to internal promotion of Stenovich after Hackett leaves....I dont know, this trend is troubling to me.
Before Hackett was just replaced with another internal promotion, are we sure this was the best move? Does "awesome OL coach" generally translate to OC?? Because Steno was an awesome OL coach. I have no idea what that means for the entirety of the offense.
The amount of hires that Lafleur has made that are looking to be awful is really adding up. He canned Pettine, who I thought was going to be great. I understand he wanted to get his own guy in there, but you have to remember...Barry worked for McVay and McVay had a chance to hire/promote Barry, and McVay took a hard pass.
Im starting to wonder if Lafleurs connections to talent is limited. Maybe everybody he knows that has promise and talent is already a part of the McVay/Shanahan tree. Remember those are Lafleurs buddies and those guys were already HCs when Lafleur was hired.
From hiring Mennenga and firing him, to the internal promotion of Drayton after the STs unit being the worst in the league, to hiring Barry who McVay passed on, to internal promotion of Stenovich after Hackett leaves....I dont know, this trend is troubling to me.
"You guys are watching too much Andy Herman"-P23
Lafluer isn't going anywhere, our receivers struggle to beat man coverage, defenses know this, we have NO ONE that requires safety over the top support, so the box is cluttered with defenders, just look at the passes we do throw short center, the coverage has been tight, same trying to run, and it's why Rodgers and Lafluer are throwing deep passes, hoping even a little success will freeze the safety's and spread out the 8 man fronts so we can run and throw short.
look at the pass rushes we face, Rodgers rarely has time to even read his progressions, got beat up pretty good again today, sure he deserves some of the blame, his passes lack the velocity they had even last year, there short, long, and off target, and we see receivers waiting for the ball more often now too.
the short uptempo pass plays require receivers with the skills to do that stuff, we have several with the athletic ability needed but lack actual experience and timing with Rodgers to be trusted in those high traffic area's so we see very few called, we are not consistently good at anything, even the run when the blocking is this bad.
again, O Donald gets the game ball, one of the best pickups Guty has made
Rodgers practically chassed McCarthy out of town, it took his not throwing checkdowns and acting like a complete moron to get that done, I don't see anything like that now, so I don't fore see anyone fired.
people act as though Lafluer gets to hire anyone he choses, I really have my doubts about that, the main reason teams promote from with in has to do with money, I know we here it's because of familiarity with the schemes, I suppose in many situations that true, but it sure as chit doesn't look to be the case here, when I see consistency issues, specially so with vets, right away I think about the coaching, and attention to detail, poor tech causes good players to play less then average.
we can still salvage the PO's and anything can happen once ya get there, but some changes need to happen.
look at the pass rushes we face, Rodgers rarely has time to even read his progressions, got beat up pretty good again today, sure he deserves some of the blame, his passes lack the velocity they had even last year, there short, long, and off target, and we see receivers waiting for the ball more often now too.
the short uptempo pass plays require receivers with the skills to do that stuff, we have several with the athletic ability needed but lack actual experience and timing with Rodgers to be trusted in those high traffic area's so we see very few called, we are not consistently good at anything, even the run when the blocking is this bad.
again, O Donald gets the game ball, one of the best pickups Guty has made
Rodgers practically chassed McCarthy out of town, it took his not throwing checkdowns and acting like a complete moron to get that done, I don't see anything like that now, so I don't fore see anyone fired.
people act as though Lafluer gets to hire anyone he choses, I really have my doubts about that, the main reason teams promote from with in has to do with money, I know we here it's because of familiarity with the schemes, I suppose in many situations that true, but it sure as chit doesn't look to be the case here, when I see consistency issues, specially so with vets, right away I think about the coaching, and attention to detail, poor tech causes good players to play less then average.
we can still salvage the PO's and anything can happen once ya get there, but some changes need to happen.
Lafleurs earned a sizable leash to figure this out. But the warning sirens are going off as the ships taking on water.
I still have some faith in him. Some.
I still have some faith in him. Some.
"You guys are watching too much Andy Herman"-P23
-
Half Empty
- Reactions:
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 25 Mar 2020 09:49
Looks to my like his winning percentage is .500, for the season that means anything.Realist wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 16:37Have you seen Mlf's winning percentage? Guy is a genius.Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Oct 2022 16:12Packers beat the patriots when they had a third string qb and beat the bucs without any of their weapons.
Lafleur was severely outcoached in both of those games.
That’s 5 of 6 games now the coaching staff has been SEVERELY outclassed, irregardless of the game result.
-
Half Empty
- Reactions:
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 25 Mar 2020 09:49