Your Morning Coffee Rodgers Discussion

[Scott4Pack]

LOL!!! Good one!

I think I’ve seen that his cap hit this year is less than $10M and next year is less than $20M. The third year is where the cap hit really takes off. So, if true, they can afford him next year without any problem, no matter what the other players cost.

[Yoop]

thanks, very informative, imagine rolling out a 60x100 yrd field after each game, or a grow light system for domes, watering systems, put a lot of people to work.

[NCF]

LOL!!! Good one!

I think I’ve seen that his cap hit this year is less than $10M and next year is less than $20M. The third year is where the cap hit really takes off. So, if true, they can afford him next year without any problem, no matter what the other players cost.

We laugh now, but I made a prediction earlier this offseason that some way, some how Aaron would find his way to Chicago. This is uncomfortably one step closer to that reality.

[Pckfn23]

The turf injury issue is mostly that cleats don't break free as they would on grass, ie... foot got stuck in the turf.

As far as Rodger's recovery, there is absolutely no chance he comes back this season. There is a very real chance that he never plays again. Cam Akers was 23 when he was able to come back for the last weeks of the playoffs, but Achilles injuries have been known to end careers.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Who is the oldest player to come back from this injury? The only candidate I can think of is Vinny Testaverde at 35/36.

(Eerie coincidence: Both injuries happened with the Jets in week one.)

[Labrev]

LOL!!! Good one!

I think I’ve seen that his cap hit this year is less than $10M and next year is less than $20M. The third year is where the cap hit really takes off. So, if true, they can afford him next year without any problem, no matter what the other players cost.

We laugh now, but I made a prediction earlier this offseason that some way, some how Aaron would find his way to Chicago. This is uncomfortably one step closer to that reality.

I can't see that, tbh. Chicago can't build a good offensive supporting cast to save their lives. I don't see them becoming an attractive destination for Rodgers within the next few years.

Rodgers also seems to know that playing for the rival of your former team is not a good look for fans of said team, and seems sensitive to maintaining his image and not following Favre's example too closely. Yes, he went to NYJ like Brett did, but he handled it much less antagonistically and was way better in how he treated Love.

[wizard 87]

I’m spending a little time contemplating why the artificial turf might be more likely to cause any injury more than a grass turf.

Regarding Rodgers’ specific injury, in looking at the video, what I see is that he planted that leg into the artificial turf in a way that his toes were more elevated, relative to his ankle/heel than usual. (This might actually be similar to how a sprinter comes out of the blocks as the start of a foot race.) As he was trying to push off to avoid the sack, that would’ve put a LOT of stress on the Achilles Tendon. And that’s not even counting whatever turn/torque he also put into it. The way that I see the artificial turf making a difference, compared to grass, is that artificial turf only has as much give as that half inch (whatever the thickness of the turf is) can afford. Below that is concrete with no give at all. If he had done the same move on grass, the grass and soil both would’ve allowed some give; certainly more than the carpet/concrete.

Are there any other considerations?

I know Bahk69 speaks out about this for a variety of injuries, not merely Achille’s problems.

I’d appreciate any insider feedback about this.

I thought this kind of poured ice water on the turf did it theory today,

[wallyuwl]

I’m spending a little time contemplating why the artificial turf might be more likely to cause any injury more than a grass turf.

Regarding Rodgers’ specific injury, in looking at the video, what I see is that he planted that leg into the artificial turf in a way that his toes were more elevated, relative to his ankle/heel than usual. (This might actually be similar to how a sprinter comes out of the blocks as the start of a foot race.) As he was trying to push off to avoid the sack, that would’ve put a LOT of stress on the Achilles Tendon. And that’s not even counting whatever turn/torque he also put into it. The way that I see the artificial turf making a difference, compared to grass, is that artificial turf only has as much give as that half inch (whatever the thickness of the turf is) can afford. Below that is concrete with no give at all. If he had done the same move on grass, the grass and soil both would’ve allowed some give; certainly more than the carpet/concrete.

Are there any other considerations?

I know Bahk69 speaks out about this for a variety of injuries, not merely Achille’s problems.

I’d appreciate any insider feedback about this.

I thought this kind of poured ice water on the turf did it theory today,

The physician is correct here. If you look at what happened, his foot wasn't trying to twist or anything and the turf kept the foot in place and didn't give. The problems here were primarily (in order): 1) he didn't throw to the open guy in-tempo over the middle on a play designed to get the ball out quick, 2) his heel was planted and not raised, putting a ton more stress on the whole triceps surae (including achilles), 3) the defensive player's weight, 4) the prior injury, 5) age and the loss of muscle/tendon compliance that goes with age, 6) maybe in some small way the turf played a role.

That said, turf clearly results in more injuries than grass, mostly due to the foot getting "suck." But in THIS injury it is way down the list.

[Acrobat]

Do we all think Rodgers would want to play for Chicago because owns the team or because he actually thinks they'd give him a chance at the Super Bowl?

[NCF]

Do we all think Rodgers would want to play for Chicago because owns the team or because he actually thinks they'd give him a chance at the Super Bowl?

I think that red carpet, franchise savior thing would be tough for anyone not to, at least, consider.

[YoHoChecko]

The physician is correct here. If you look at what happened, his foot wasn't trying to twist or anything and the turf kept the foot in place and didn't give. The problems here were primarily (in order): 1) he didn't throw to the open guy in-tempo over the middle on a play designed to get the ball out quick, 2) his heel was planted and not raised, putting a ton more stress on the whole triceps surae (including achilles), 3) the defensive player's weight, 4) the prior injury, 5) age and the loss of muscle/tendon compliance that goes with age, 6) maybe in some small way the turf played a role.

That said, turf clearly results in more injuries than grass, mostly due to the foot getting "suck." But in THIS injury it is way down the list.

Thanks for the info/list

And I am on board with expert analysis as to whether turf caused this injury

However, I don't think it matters. This injury on a turf field that players have complained about ignited the conversation in a more vehement and activated energy I've seen around the topic for ages, and the data shows it's more dangerous. Whether it mattered to THIS injury or not, this injury may be the tipping point of doing something about it.

I think that would actually be a pretty neat addition to the Rodgers legacy in some respects. Players have fought over this for a long time. Your achilles ruptured so that others can play on grass. A feather in the cap, honestly

[TheSkeptic]

The Packers dodged a bullet. The chances of AR every playing again are less than 10% and the chances of him ever being great are zero. I know, because I had that injury.

This should be a wake up call to the Packers and every other team. Don't overpay for any QB, no matter how good he is. Don't put an excessive amount of cap money into any player at any position. The risk of a career ending injury is real and significant. Put the money into retaining linemen and LB's and TE's and if you do happen to hit on an MVP quality QB, trade him, spend the money on top players at other positions and take the 1st round draft picks.

One year earlier (a year the Packers missed the playoffs) and the Packers would have had 2 extra 1st round picks (maybe more) instead of two 2nd round picks and dead cap limitations this past offseason. But thank God they finally woke up and got out of the way of that bullet.

Sucks to be a Jet fan

[Cdragon]

The turf injury issue is mostly that cleats don't break free as they would on grass, ie... foot got stuck in the turf.

As far as Rodger's recovery, there is absolutely no chance he comes back this season. There is a very real chance that he never plays again. Cam Akers was 23 when he was able to come back for the last weeks of the playoffs, but Achilles injuries have been known to end careers.

Even if he can go through all the pain and work to return the leg to some type of function, he'd stand a good chance of blowing out an ACL in the next year.

But I wouldn't totally rule out AR remaking his game and becoming a stationary QB and finish up like Peyton did, but with an arm. But not behind that line.

[APB]

This should be a wake up call to the Packers and every other team. Don't overpay for any QB, no matter how good he is. Don't put an excessive amount of cap money into any player at any position. The risk of a career ending injury is real and significant. Put the money into retaining linemen and LB's and TE's and if you do happen to hit on an MVP quality QB, trade him, spend the money on top players at other positions and take the 1st round draft picks.

Ok, now I'm confused.

You're saying that just as your developed QB comes into his quality playing prime, trade him? And start all over at the most important position because he may get injured? But those "other positions" can be spent upon because....they don't get injured?

[RingoCStarrQB]

This should be a wake up call to the Packers and every other team. Don't overpay for any QB, no matter how good he is. Don't put an excessive amount of cap money into any player at any position. The risk of a career ending injury is real and significant. Put the money into retaining linemen and LB's and TE's and if you do happen to hit on an MVP quality QB, trade him, spend the money on top players at other positions and take the 1st round draft picks.

Ok, now I'm confused.

You're saying that just as your developed QB comes into his quality playing prime, trade him? And start all over at the most important position because he may get injured? But those "other positions" can be spent upon because....they don't get injured?

Me too. Someone here likely just flew off the rails. Hopefully its a temporary thing.

[TheSkeptic]

This should be a wake up call to the Packers and every other team. Don't overpay for any QB, no matter how good he is. Don't put an excessive amount of cap money into any player at any position. The risk of a career ending injury is real and significant. Put the money into retaining linemen and LB's and TE's and if you do happen to hit on an MVP quality QB, trade him, spend the money on top players at other positions and take the 1st round draft picks.

Ok, now I'm confused.

You're saying that just as your developed QB comes into his quality playing prime, trade him? And start all over at the most important position because he may get injured? But those "other positions" can be spent upon because....they don't get injured?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Unless that QB is another Brady that prefers SB's to squeezing every last penny in salary, trade him. Instead of spending 30 million extra a year in cap, take that 30 mil, divide it by 5 and pay for the best Oline in the league. A Sean Clifford type QB the Oline that has all the time in the world to throw will outperform that prime time QB behind a shaky Oline. And maybe we will not see that prime time QB on a cart with someone supporting his leg, courtesy of UDFA's in the Oline making veteran's minimum.

I really hope Love does not get greedy and become the next narcissist who prefers making the top salary in the NFL and wining the MVP to winning the SB. If he does, trade him for 3 first round draft picks and 2 seconds and start Clifford. Then if Clifford repeats, trade him too.

Then maybe we would have a Corey Linsley winning a pro bowl as a Packer instead of Myers struggling. Personally I think Linsley would have stayed had the Packers given him an extra 6 mil a year instead of giving his money to Aaron Rodgers. And an extra 2 mil might very well have kept Corey.

Of course the other positions get hurt too. But what would we rather have, 1 backup in the Oline or the star QB on IR?

[German_Panzer]

The Packers dodged a bullet. The chances of AR every playing again are less than 10% and the chances of him ever being great are zero. I know, because I had that injury.

Not so fast.

https://sports.yahoo.com/jets-coach-rob ... 24908.html

[Pckfn23]

Who is the oldest player to come back from this injury? The only candidate I can think of is Vinny Testaverde at 35/36.

(Eerie coincidence: Both injuries happened with the Jets in week one.)

Shawne Merriman torn his at 27 and started 1 more game the rest of his career which lasted 1 more year.

[Yoop]

This should be a wake up call to the Packers and every other team. Don't overpay for any QB, no matter how good he is. Don't put an excessive amount of cap money into any player at any position. The risk of a career ending injury is real and significant. Put the money into retaining linemen and LB's and TE's and if you do happen to hit on an MVP quality QB, trade him, spend the money on top players at other positions and take the 1st round draft picks.

Ok, now I'm confused.

You're saying that just as your developed QB comes into his quality playing prime, trade him? And start all over at the most important position because he may get injured? But those "other positions" can be spent upon because....they don't get injured?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Unless that QB is another Brady that prefers SB's to squeezing every last penny in salary, trade him. Instead of spending 30 million extra a year in cap, take that 30 mil, divide it by 5 and pay for the best Oline in the league. A Sean Clifford type QB the Oline that has all the time in the world to throw will outperform that prime time QB behind a shaky Oline. And maybe we will not see that prime time QB on a cart with someone supporting his leg, courtesy of UDFA's in the Oline making veteran's minimum.

I really hope Love does not get greedy and become the next narcissist who prefers making the top salary in the NFL and wining the MVP to winning the SB. If he does, trade him for 3 first round draft picks and 2 seconds and start Clifford. Then if Clifford repeats, trade him too.

Then maybe we would have a Corey Linsley winning a pro bowl as a Packer instead of Myers struggling. Personally I think Linsley would have stayed had the Packers given him an extra 6 mil a year instead of giving his money to Aaron Rodgers. And an extra 2 mil might very well have kept Corey.

Of course the other positions get hurt too. But what would we rather have, 1 backup in the Oline or the star QB on IR?

1. players do not set there dollar value, there agents do, player simply play, and there production is the bargaining chip there agent uses.
2. the winningest teams tend to be big play producers with stingy defenses, that means teams need a offense that can accomplish that, and that very very seldom happens on a run first team, so ya need that QB.

we went 2 decades trying it your way with 1 (one ) winning season because we couldn't replace Bart Starr, I never want to go back to that again.

[Acrobat]

Dan Marino came back and played 2 years after his, but I remember him going on record several times saying that it never felt the same. Rodgers could still come back and play at a high level, but age is not his friend right now. He already lost a lot of his mobility, so he will truly have to be a pocket passer with what is most likely declining arm strength and agility in the pocket.