2020 General Draft Discussion

[paco]

I'm a fan.

[go pak go]

I'm a fan.

I would be very, very happy if we pick this guy on day 2.

[paco]

I'm a fan.

I would be very, very happy if we pick this guy on day 2.

Me too, but might not be there.

[go pak go]

Yeah. So I basically look at Chinn and Dugger as one the same. I think if push came to shove, I would go Jeremy Chinn. I know I picked Dugger in my mock but I really like Chinn and would probably be more inclined to draft Chinn.

I will say this. I think there could be potential to get incredible value out of this safety group this year.

[Yoop]

Yeah. So I basically look at Chinn and Dugger as one the same. I think if push came to shove, I would go Jeremy Chinn. I know I picked Dugger in my mock but I really like Chinn and would probably be more inclined to draft Chinn.

I will say this. I think there could be potential to get incredible value out of this safety group this year.

either is fine with me, these big safety's are the answer imo, not the ideal one, it's just to hard to find the 230+ lb lbers with the coverage ability that are any better at stopping the run then a big safety, the goal of a ILB isn't neccesarily to take on blocks so much as it is to avoid them and make the play, being a bit smaller and more nimble affords that oppertunity to slash through the traffic and do that.

theres more then one way top stop or slow down the opposing run game, if your weak up front then obviously your ILB's will have to be bigger gap plugging types and you'll have to platoon in a safety on passing downs as we have with minimal success, however the reason our 3 safety nickle has failed has more to do with that 3rd safety then the scheme, time to try and fix that again.

[BF004]

[mention]paco[/mention] , you getting the draft contested started soon?

[paco]

@paco , you getting the draft contested started soon?

I suppose. Need to discuss scoring and such and if there should be changes.

[Raptorman]

So on a Rams board, I belong to they are doing a mock draft. Being a Vikings fan I get to pick for the Vikings. I am also picking for the Packers since they don't have a Packer fan on their board.

So far for you guy I picked up Mims in the first round. Give me some options for the second round.

[YoHoChecko]

So on a Rams board, I belong to they are doing a mock draft. Being a Vikings fan I get to pick for the Vikings. I am also picking for the Packers since they don't have a Packer fan on their board.

So far for you guy I picked up Mims in the first round. Give me some options for the second round.

Chinn and Duggar, as listed above, are options; though probably not top options.

I'd like to see a stout DT, perhaps; if Marlon Davidson falls to 62, grab him. Justin Madubuike or Raekwan Davis are also options.

If an OT like Josh Jones falls to the end of the second, certainly.

I wouldn't hate Cole Kmet, but I probably wouldn't love it, either.

I'd still take a LB like Jordan Brooks or Malik Hamilton, though Hamilton is falling out of favor on our board.

[lupedafiasco]

If they take a safety early I will be pissed. Gute needs to be very aware of the resources he has available. I would rather have a fast LB than play another safety at the position when you already have Greene.

[go pak go]

If they take a safety early I will be pissed. Gute needs to be very aware of the resources he has available. I would rather have a fast LB than play another safety at the position when you already have Greene.

How many games has Greene been healthy for and actually play in his time in Green Bay?

Literally. He went out with a season ending injury when he was called up in December 2018 on his first game.

Then started 2 games in 2019 and went out with season ending injury after playing 5 quarters.

[YoHoChecko]

If they take a safety early I will be pissed. Gute needs to be very aware of the resources he has available. I would rather have a fast LB than play another safety at the position when you already have Greene.

Let's look at some weights

Darnell Savage: 198
Adrian Amos: 214
Raven Greene: 197

Jeremy Chinn: 221
Kyle Duggar: 217

Fast LBs:
Patrick Queen: 229 (1st round)
Akeem Davis-Gaither: 224 (day 2-mid round)
Davion Taylor: 228 (mid-late rounder)

Do you see why differentiating like that is... kinda silly?

[lupedafiasco]

If they take a safety early I will be pissed. Gute needs to be very aware of the resources he has available. I would rather have a fast LB than play another safety at the position when you already have Greene.

How many games has Greene been healthy for and actually play in his time in Green Bay?

Literally. He went out with a season ending injury when he was called up in December 2018 on his first game.

Then started 2 games in 2019 and went out with season ending injury after playing 5 quarters.

You already have 2 starters at S in Savage and Amos. One signed to big money, the other a highly invested draft pick. They need to fill their holes and I dont just mean short term. By drafting a safety early theyve accomplished nothing but either wasting big money in FA or wasting a high pick either last year or this year.

At some point this team needs to learn about wasting resources.

[Yoop]

If they take a safety early I will be pissed. Gute needs to be very aware of the resources he has available. I would rather have a fast LB than play another safety at the position when you already have Greene.

How many games has Greene been healthy for and actually play in his time in Green Bay?

Literally. He went out with a season ending injury when he was called up in December 2018 on his first game.

Then started 2 games in 2019 and went out with season ending injury after playing 5 quarters.

You already have 2 starters at S in Savage and Amos. One signed to big money, the other a highly invested draft pick. They need to fill their holes and I dont just mean short term. By drafting a safety early theyve accomplished nothing but either wasting big money in FA or wasting a high pick either last year or this year.

At some point this team needs to learn about wasting resources.

the point is these safety's are better then any lber we can get, you want conventional when conventional isn't available, we play 70% of our snaps with just 1 ILB and 1 hybrid safety because we have not had a decent ILB 2, and it doesn't look like this draft class will provide one either.

[NCF]

Do you see why differentiating like that is... kinda silly?

No. I want a LB who played LB. Where differentiating might be silly is if you find me this hybrid guy that actually played LB, then I am board. These college Safeties just do not translate well to everything we ask them to do.

So, to clarify my position, its two positions. The Hybrid guy is all well and good and we need that guy and use him a lot. But we have that in Raven Greene. We also need an athletic LB who can run and cover and has enough instincts to not be a liability in the run game and the physicality to attack the hole, fill, and wrap-and-tackle... we do not have that guy and that is the guy we desperately need.

[Yoop]

Do you see why differentiating like that is... kinda silly?

No. I want a LB who played LB. Where differentiating might be silly is if you find me this hybrid guy that actually played LB, then I am board. These college Safeties just do not translate well to everything we ask them to do.

So, to clarify my position, its two positions. The Hybrid guy is all well and good and we need that guy and use him a lot. But we have that in Raven Greene. We also need an athletic LB who can run and cover and has enough instincts to not be a liability in the run game and the physicality to attack the hole, fill, and wrap-and-tackle... we do not have that guy and that is the guy we desperately need.

well they brought in Kirksley to be that guy, what makes you think any of the late 2nd round or later ILB can be, most some suited to be run pluggers and those with duel tech ability are much lower tier athletes.

sure we all want a Queenie 6.2 235 lbes, but to think a guy thats played SS in college, a position very similiar to a ILB and is a very good athlete that is 6.1 and 220lbs can't work makes no sense to me.

your comparing a guy like Raven Green, who has debatable athletic skills and certainly was not a high rated safety to guys that are rated positionally at the top of there class, thats apples to oranges in my book.

[NCF]

your comparing a guy like Raven Green, who has debatable athletic skills and certainly was not a high rated safety to guys that are rated positionally at the top of there class, thats apples to oranges in my book.

So a guy like, say... Josh Jones?

[NCF]

well they brought in Kirksley to be that guy, what makes you think any of the late 2nd round or later ILB can be, most some suited to be run pluggers and those with duel tech ability are much lower tier athletes.

Ah, pish posh. There are LB's in this draft that can do it, even after the top group. Also, I want people to understand that Kirksey is going to be here for a cup of coffee. 1 to 2 years and we will be in the same damn position if we don't have a plan.

[Yoop]

well they brought in Kirksley to be that guy, what makes you think any of the late 2nd round or later ILB can be, most some suited to be run pluggers and those with duel tech ability are much lower tier athletes.

Ah, pish posh. There are LB's in this draft that can do it, even after the top group. Also, I want people to understand that Kirksey is going to be here for a cup of coffee. 1 to 2 years and we will be in the same damn position if we don't have a plan.

you bring up the failed pick of Jones, who by the way has not excelled at safety any where either to my knowledge, yet ya don't mention the half doz. mid to later round ILB's that didn't make it either.

just because Jones couldn't adjust to it doesn't mean other safety's wont, for cripe sacks you act as though players can't change positions at this level when evidence shows that it happens regularly, Nick Collins was a CB, when tight ends grow to much there made into OT's, college QB's switch so they can have a pro career, it happens.

I think people are loosing focus simply because we couldn't stop the run well enough 3 times last year, never mind that the players we had where good enough to do it, but our DC decided to keep single gaping and our Dl guys kept over pursuing those gaps, basically insuring that they had no chance to make a play, and because of that very poor play, we now need the greatest ILB and Dliner we can possibly get.

I didn't say to not take a later round ILB, in fact I endorse doing that, but my point is and always has been that we NEED BETTER coverage, and that chance of getting that with a later round ILB is slim to near zero, thats why ya take the safety.

[NCF]

well they brought in Kirksley to be that guy, what makes you think any of the late 2nd round or later ILB can be, most some suited to be run pluggers and those with duel tech ability are much lower tier athletes.

Ah, pish posh. There are LB's in this draft that can do it, even after the top group. Also, I want people to understand that Kirksey is going to be here for a cup of coffee. 1 to 2 years and we will be in the same damn position if we don't have a plan.

you bring up the failed pick of Jones, who by the way has not excelled at safety any where either to my knowledge, yet ya don't mention the half doz. mid to later round ILB's that didn't make it either.

just because Jones couldn't adjust to it doesn't mean other safety's wont, for cripe sacks you act as though players can't change positions at this level when evidence shows that it happens regularly, Nick Collins was a CB, when tight ends grow to much there made into OT's, college QB's switch so they can have a pro career, it happens.

I think people are loosing focus simply because we couldn't stop the run well enough 3 times last year, never mind that the players we had where good enough to do it, but our DC decided to keep single gaping and our Dl guys kept over pursuing those gaps, basically insuring that they had no chance to make a play, and because of that very poor play, we now need the greatest ILB and Dliner we can possibly get.

I didn't say to not take a later round ILB, in fact I endorse doing that, but my point is and always has been that we NEED BETTER coverage, and that chance of getting that with a later round ILB is slim to near zero, thats why ya take the safety.

Then, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Of course prospects CAN make the change, but wouldn't you agree that makes the NFL transition more difficult for them? My point is that I don't want to have to choose between a S who can cover, but not tackle, and a LB who can tackle but not cover. I want the total package. I know that is asking a lot and those guys can be difficult to find, but its not impossible, even down the draft board. Maybe we need stricter athletic cut offs like we seemingly do at other positions. Just don't draft a guy that you already KNOW can't do it.