Allen Lazard and Robert Tonyan

[YoHoChecko]

Ok, admittedly, I'm a little high.

But it's just blowing my mind tonight that if the season started today, Allen Lazard would be WR2 and Robert Tonyan would be TE1 and somehow, despite incredibly similar profiles, the team seems to have correctly identified that Lazard should trim down and work on speed/quickness and become a WR while Tonyan should bulk up and learn to block and become a TE.

Let's review.

Robert "Big Bob" Tonyan was a WR at Indiana St. He was a big dude, 6' 4 5/8" and 235 pounds, with great contested catch and ball skills and enough speed to make it work in college, 4.58 40 at his Pro Day. He was signed by the Detroit Lions as an UDFA in 2017 but was released on final cutdowns. The Packers brought him in late in his rookie season, December 2017. He spent the offseason focusing on transitioning to TE.

Allen "The Lizard" Lazard was a WR at Iowa St. He was a big dude, 6' 4 5/8" and 228 pounds, with great contested catch and ball skills and enough speed to make it work in college, 4.55 40 at the combine. He was signed by the Jacksonville Jaguars as an UDFA in 2018 but was released on final cutdowns. The Packers brought him in late in his rookie season, December 2018. He spent the offseason focusing on slimming down for his WR role.

Their measurables are freaky similar. As stated above, they are the exact same height and within 5-9 pounds of each other. Their 40-times were within .03 of each other. Their bench press was off by 1, their broad jump was within an inch, their 3-cones and short shuttle within 0.01. Both guys came into the league with open questions from scouts and analysts about whether or not to convert to TE; both were listed as WRs by NFL Draftscout, for instance, with TE as "POS2".

I, personally, thought when Lazard was brought in, it was to do the same thing they were attempting with Tonyan (convert to TE), but with a more talented player, and posted about it as such. But it's just wild to me to see how nicely this is working out, even if Lazard doesn't take any more steps forward and Tonyan remains JAG (which isn't the report in camp, but I understand people's skepticism). I guess sometimes, these guys know what they're doing...

[NCF]

Ok, admittedly, I'm a little high.

Nice summary, though. They seem to fit the roles they were pushed towards, but it also makes you wonder if they would have made similar progress (or perhaps even more) if they were each pushed the other way.

[TheGreenMan]

Ok, admittedly, I'm a little high.

Nice summary, though. They seem to fit the roles they were pushed towards, but it also makes you wonder if they would have made similar progress (or perhaps even more) if they were each pushed the other way.

I think they could go either way to be honest. I've always been a fan of Tonyan, but he always seems to be a guy people forget about or just find him nothing more than 3rd string TE. I would love to see more TE sets with both Jace and Robert on the field in passing situations.

Fun fact: Tonyan initially was getting interest to play QB in college (and did for a few games), before making the switch to WR.

[Labrev]

Wow, the similarities are pretty uncanny.

I kinda felt like Tonyan had more of a shot at TE1 than many may have thought.

[YoHoChecko]

Wow, the similarities are pretty uncanny.

I kinda felt like Tonyan had more of a shot at TE1 than many may have thought.

Yeah, it's sort of crazy that the guy literally is playing TE1 through the first week of camp and most still consider him a longshot OR think that his standing is more a reflection of Sternberger than it is of him. I've been saying all offseason that Sternberger AND Tonyan will be replacing Graham this year (while Deguara replaces Vitale AND some of those Sternberger/Baylis H-back snaps that they are less likely to get now)

Anyway, we only really need one to hit out of Sternberger and Tonyan this year. Bonus if they're both pretty good.

[Drj820]

In my opinion, I think it says more negative things about the strength of the position that Tonyan is sitting at TE1, than it does positive things about Tonyan.

[TheSkeptic]

In my opinion, I think it says more negative things about the strength of the position that Tonyan is sitting at TE1, than it does positive things about Tonyan.

I don't believe he is TE#1. Training camp is not the same as playing in a real game. Next month, if there is a season, and if the Packers have onl1 TE on the field it will be Sternberger.

With that said, IMO the Packers are going to have 2 TE's on the field most of the time. The most common lineup will be Adams, Lazard, Tonyam, Sternberger and Aaron Jones. What do all 5 of these have in common? They are all good receivers. And with the possible exception of Adams, they are all very good in the running game. As for Adams, all he has to do to take his man out of a running play is to go deep, someone will follow him.

[RingoCStarrQB]

In my opinion, I think it says more negative things about the strength of the position that Tonyan is sitting at TE1, than it does positive things about Tonyan.

I don't believe he is TE#1. Training camp is not the same as playing in a real game. Next month, if there is a season, and if the Packers have onl1 TE on the field it will be Sternberger.

With that said, IMO the Packers are going to have 2 TE's on the field most of the time. The most common lineup will be Adams, Lazard, Tonyam, Sternberger and Aaron Jones. What do all 5 of these have in common? They are all good receivers. And with the possible exception of Adams, they are all very good in the running game. As for Adams, all he has to do to take his man out of a running play is to go deep, someone will follow him.

I have yet to see anything that shows Tonyan, Sternberger and Lazard as being starting NFL players (I am looking for 16 game consistency, not 'one offs'). All 3 guys obviously have great potential (and have been tremendously hyped), but potential does not equal true starting NFL TE or WR performance. It depends on your expectations I guess. Oh how we miss Jermichael Finley and the 2010 wide receiver corp. Three weeks from now we'll see who starts on offense. I am primarily excited about seeing our running backs perform (Jones, Dillon, Williams) in game #1, to hopefully set up the passing game......hoping to see Jones - Dillon split backfield every once in awhile. Hoping to see Jones go in motion with Dillon as the lone back ..... this could be the ticket to seeing the #2 receiver getting open more than usual

[TheSkeptic]

In my opinion, I think it says more negative things about the strength of the position that Tonyan is sitting at TE1, than it does positive things about Tonyan.

I don't believe he is TE#1. Training camp is not the same as playing in a real game. Next month, if there is a season, and if the Packers have onl1 TE on the field it will be Sternberger.

With that said, IMO the Packers are going to have 2 TE's on the field most of the time. The most common lineup will be Adams, Lazard, Tonyam, Sternberger and Aaron Jones. What do all 5 of these have in common? They are all good receivers. And with the possible exception of Adams, they are all very good in the running game. As for Adams, all he has to do to take his man out of a running play is to go deep, someone will follow him.

I have yet to see anything that shows Tonyan, Sternberger and Lazard as being starting NFL players (I am looking for 16 game consistency, not 'one offs'). All 3 guys obviously have great potential (and have been tremendously hyped), but potential does not equal true starting NFL TE or WR performance. It depends on your expectations I guess. Oh how we miss Jermichael Finley and the 2010 wide receiver corp. Three weeks from now we'll see who starts on offense. I am primarily excited about seeing our running backs perform (Jones, Dillon, Williams) in game #1, to hopefully set up the passing game......hoping to see Jones - Dillon split backfield every once in awhile. Hoping to see Jones go in motion with Dillon as the lone back ..... this could be the ticket to seeing the #2 receiver getting open more than usual

Then you should be excited to see Sternberger, Tonyan and Lazard blocking for them. 3 big dudes more than willing and capable to put a safety or even an ILB on his backside.

[Drj820]

In my opinion, I think it says more negative things about the strength of the position that Tonyan is sitting at TE1, than it does positive things about Tonyan.

I don't believe he is TE#1. Training camp is not the same as playing in a real game. Next month, if there is a season, and if the Packers have onl1 TE on the field it will be Sternberger.

With that said, IMO the Packers are going to have 2 TE's on the field most of the time. The most common lineup will be Adams, Lazard, Tonyam, Sternberger and Aaron Jones. What do all 5 of these have in common? They are all good receivers. And with the possible exception of Adams, they are all very good in the running game. As for Adams, all he has to do to take his man out of a running play is to go deep, someone will follow him.

I have yet to see anything that shows Tonyan, Sternberger and Lazard as being starting NFL players (I am looking for 16 game consistency, not 'one offs'). All 3 guys obviously have great potential (and have been tremendously hyped), but potential does not equal true starting NFL TE or WR performance. It depends on your expectations I guess. Oh how we miss Jermichael Finley and the 2010 wide receiver corp. Three weeks from now we'll see who starts on offense. I am primarily excited about seeing our running backs perform (Jones, Dillon, Williams) in game #1, to hopefully set up the passing game......hoping to see Jones - Dillon split backfield every once in awhile. Hoping to see Jones go in motion with Dillon as the lone back ..... this could be the ticket to seeing the #2 receiver getting open more than usual

That’s kinda what I’m getting at. I may be being pessimistic, but I think it’s more realistic...Tonyan and stern both couldn’t stay healthy last year, both didn’t actually do much in real games. Lazard is a player, but limited. I’m just not sure an offense that is going to rely heavily on all 3 is something to be so excited about. Not trying to be a hater.

[Pckfn23]

So how is Lazard limited?

To say Lazard didn't show he could be a starter isn't an honest evaluation.

Tonya came out of a different position and has been improving and Sternberger had a good college career before getting injured last season. TEs don't typically light it up as rookies.

[go pak go]

I don't believe he is TE#1. Training camp is not the same as playing in a real game. Next month, if there is a season, and if the Packers have onl1 TE on the field it will be Sternberger.

With that said, IMO the Packers are going to have 2 TE's on the field most of the time. The most common lineup will be Adams, Lazard, Tonyam, Sternberger and Aaron Jones. What do all 5 of these have in common? They are all good receivers. And with the possible exception of Adams, they are all very good in the running game. As for Adams, all he has to do to take his man out of a running play is to go deep, someone will follow him.

I have yet to see anything that shows Tonyan, Sternberger and Lazard as being starting NFL players (I am looking for 16 game consistency, not 'one offs'). All 3 guys obviously have great potential (and have been tremendously hyped), but potential does not equal true starting NFL TE or WR performance. It depends on your expectations I guess. Oh how we miss Jermichael Finley and the 2010 wide receiver corp. Three weeks from now we'll see who starts on offense. I am primarily excited about seeing our running backs perform (Jones, Dillon, Williams) in game #1, to hopefully set up the passing game......hoping to see Jones - Dillon split backfield every once in awhile. Hoping to see Jones go in motion with Dillon as the lone back ..... this could be the ticket to seeing the #2 receiver getting open more than usual

That’s kinda what I’m getting at. I may be being pessimistic, but I think it’s more realistic...Tonyan and stern both couldn’t stay healthy last year, both didn’t actually do much in real games. Lazard is a player, but limited. I’m just not sure an offense that is going to rely heavily on all 3 is something to be so excited about. Not trying to be a hater.

No doubt another top 30 to top 50 WR in the league would make us feel better.

But I also think players like Lazard, Tonyan etc. can be successful in an offense when you already have supposed top end Oline play, top end RB play a top end WR and Top end QB play.

An offense should be able to make that work.

[Drj820]

I have yet to see anything that shows Tonyan, Sternberger and Lazard as being starting NFL players (I am looking for 16 game consistency, not 'one offs'). All 3 guys obviously have great potential (and have been tremendously hyped), but potential does not equal true starting NFL TE or WR performance. It depends on your expectations I guess. Oh how we miss Jermichael Finley and the 2010 wide receiver corp. Three weeks from now we'll see who starts on offense. I am primarily excited about seeing our running backs perform (Jones, Dillon, Williams) in game #1, to hopefully set up the passing game......hoping to see Jones - Dillon split backfield every once in awhile. Hoping to see Jones go in motion with Dillon as the lone back ..... this could be the ticket to seeing the #2 receiver getting open more than usual

That’s kinda what I’m getting at. I may be being pessimistic, but I think it’s more realistic...Tonyan and stern both couldn’t stay healthy last year, both didn’t actually do much in real games. Lazard is a player, but limited. I’m just not sure an offense that is going to rely heavily on all 3 is something to be so excited about. Not trying to be a hater.

No doubt another top 30 to top 50 WR in the league would make us feel better.

But I also think players like Lazard, Tonyan etc. can be successful in an offense when you already have supposed top end Oline play, top end RB play a top end WR and Top end QB play.

An offense should be able to make that work.

Yeah I hear ya, and I hope I’m not being too harsh. And I do think we can make the O work with what we have. Just saying I’m not really asking for another top 30 or 50 guy to fill those spots. Just saying that’s three pretty important positions that are filled by one guy who has been serviceable for one year, and two guys who have not been servicable at all in any meaningful way. I guess I would feel more “excitement” about the spots if at least a couple of those spots were filled by proven “serviceable” nfl players. Not even asking for anything near elite. That’s all.

[Cdragon]

I wonder if their relative position choices were influenced at all by the racial bias that exists in football. The African American shifted into the more, "skilled," position running and catching the ball, while the white guy is sent to the more cerebral role, stuck in line blocking, and into the passing game. While these postions aren't as set in stone like CB the trend would seem to be there.

And of course these biases are BS.

[Captain_Ben]

I'm a little high... on Lazard. I think he can be a legit #2 WR in this league. He has proven ability in clutch moments, which is really important to me in evaluating a receiver. I'm expecting big things from him this year (or next year, or whenever we play again).

[RingoCStarrQB]

Oh no ........... I swear I just had a Billy Schroeder moment. Dang it!

[Packfntk]

I'm a little high... on Lazard. I think he can be a legit #2 WR in this league. He has proven ability in clutch moments, which is really important to me in evaluating a receiver. I'm expecting big things from him this year (or next year, or whenever we play again).

Yeah, and he has one big thing going for him. ARod loves him. I think he is firmly our WR2, and there isn't a big fight from anyone else.

[pack power]

I agree that Lazard should be a good WR but I have not been on here so that is just from how he ended up last year.

[Captain_Ben]

I agree that Lazard should be a good WR but I have not been on here so that is just from how he ended up last year.

Hey Pack Power! Welcome to the new forum!

[bobsacamano]

I'm a little high... on Lazard. I think he can be a legit #2 WR in this league. He has proven ability in clutch moments, which is really important to me in evaluating a receiver. I'm expecting big things from him this year (or next year, or whenever we play again).

Yeah, and he has one big thing going for him. ARod loves him. I think he is firmly our WR2, and there isn't a big fight from anyone else.

AR sure spoke highly of MVS this week too.