Who is worse?

[lupedafiasco]

Who do you guys think is the real problem? In my opinion is very important to figure out which is the problem and move on from one. You can’t bring both back next season if this continues.

As bad as Love is I think Lafleur is the real problem with what happening in the field. I believe both Bumst and Murphy are also bad at anything football related but LaFleurs blunders from coaching decisions, personnel decision in the field, game plans, prepping a team to play (especially out of byes).

I don’t have faith in his decision making at all.

[wallyuwl]

Can you add Gutenbumst and an "all of the above" option?

[bud fox]

MLF is not great but we still had two strong and MVP years with him with Rodgers under centre.

Love was a reach when he was drafted. He had a poor final season at College. His first start was all time bad. His play now doesn't look any better - inaccurate, doesn't see the field, doesn't move well in the pocket and if he does its only to leave the pocket.

I am pretty sure both will be gone by the end of next season.

[wallyuwl]

I am pretty sure both will be gone by the end of next season.

Hope so. And Gute. Murphy will be gone right after 2025 draft. Burn it down, get real football people in place, and roll.

[Papa John]

I am pretty sure both will be gone by the end of next season.

Hope so. And Gute. Murphy will be gone right after 2025 draft. Burn it down, get real football people in place, and roll.

Agreed. Make it about Packers football again. Winning championships.

[Drj820]

I blame Aaron rodgers. He didn’t do enough to develop Love. He hid from us the fact that Lafleur doesn’t know what he is doing, and he hid didn’t develop love enough. I blame Aaron.

[texas]

You guys are insane

[BF004]

Murphy is going to retire in 2025. However an important note, July 2025. Meaning any GM and/or HC and/or Russ Ball changes that offseason will still be at his discretion. So Murphy will have the call this next offseason and the one after as well. I believe Ball, Gute and LaFleur were all extended in the summer of '22. Contracts usually like 5 years, so financially, I really think they are pretty much locks to be back next year at least.

Be interesting to see how he handles, his final offseason. Either basically just leave LaFleur and Gute in essentially a dummy/lame duck year for the next President to decide in ~8 months after that. Should we see a little more success in the next 15 months, double down on his guys and extend them again before he leaves. Or make a change before then.

I think Love is the only one in any real danger of not being back next year. LaFluer and Gute have shown levels of success in the past and we did expect a down year this year, and they were both extended recently and it would be costly to fire any of them this early.

[TheSkeptic]

Rodgers covered for MLF until this season. Except for that Chief's game when Love had to start - which may be the worst coached game in the history of NFL football. But Rodgers got old and cost too much and left and now there is no one to cover for MLF.

MLF is a bad coach. We can see it, prove it. No scripted plays to start the game. Horizontal plays to start the game. With the exception of 1 quarter when Love got the team fired up, no fire in the belly of the players. And the refusal to tell Barry to coach aggressively.

I will still give Love a pass. Its hard to tell how much is his fault and how much is MLF's fault. But at least he is giving everything he has. At least there is hope.

After this season, the Packers need a new HC. (unless we see a miracle). As for MLF's contract, that is only money. Tell him to stay home or go watch the game at the local sports bar. Bar him from the stadium and don't let him near the players or coaches. As for a miracle, the best way to get MLF to produce one is to tell him it is his last season if he does not produce one. Maybe just maybe it would light a fire under him.

[Acrobat]

MLF is not great but we still had two strong and MVP years with him with Rodgers under centre.

Love was a reach when he was drafted. He had a poor final season at College. His first start was all time bad. His play now doesn't look any better - inaccurate, doesn't see the field, doesn't move well in the pocket and if he does its only to leave the pocket.

I am pretty sure both will be gone by the end of next season.

It's interesting that you mention his first start because the general consensus was that it was not a good game by Love and that part of the problem was that it was a horrible game plan by MLF.

Here we are 2 year later saying the exact same thing.

[Drj820]

Lafleur has earned the benefit of the doubt to some extent. But now maybe those that spout off his win percentage with Rodgers will allow us to actually discuss whether he is a good coach or not. Im willing to give him the full year without I ever put him on any kind of hot seat. But I think if things continue to go bad, that he starts next year on the hot seat.

I hope he can turn it around. But the signs are not good. The team lacks identity. The team lacks toughness. We have seen no evolution of the offense. No one here can ever tell the forum what the "matt lafleur offense is" and thats a huge problem. Its a problem because when things get bad, teams have to have something they all know they can fall back on and rely on.

This team has no semblance of that at all.

[Yoop]

Lafleur has earned the benefit of the doubt to some extent. But now maybe those that spout off his win percentage with Rodgers will allow us to actually discuss whether he is a good coach or not. Im willing to give him the full year without I ever put him on any kind of hot seat. But I think if things continue to go bad, that he starts next year on the hot seat.

I hope he can turn it around. But the signs are not good. The team lacks identity. The team lacks toughness. We have seen no evolution of the offense. No one here can ever tell the forum what the "matt lafleur offense is" and thats a huge problem. Its a problem because when things get bad, teams have to have something they all know they can fall back on and rely on.

This team has no semblance of that at all.

team looks better, a lot better when the OL gets the job done, and when it's not, every aspect of the offense looks bad, seriously, prior to defenses (first 2 games) figuring this OL out the offense as a whole seemed better, plat calls seemed better, we had Jones and we ran better, and Love looked to make good decisions, threw more accurately, and showed some poise in the pocket, then we lost Bakh, then Jenkins, and pass rush has been a constant, and we rarely open run lanes.

we have a OL problem first and fore most, till we get that right, it's impossible to make a fair grade concerning anything else. jmo

[Packfntk]

Love has not looked great, and I think everyone expected that. However, MLF does not help him out at all. The offensive play calling has been boring, stagnant, elementary, not much presnap creativity, and almost no easy high percentage intermediate throws. TE screens need to go away, or dwindle down because they are not efficient blocking for them. Scheme is stale and needs to change.

[Drj820]

Lafleur has earned the benefit of the doubt to some extent. But now maybe those that spout off his win percentage with Rodgers will allow us to actually discuss whether he is a good coach or not. Im willing to give him the full year without I ever put him on any kind of hot seat. But I think if things continue to go bad, that he starts next year on the hot seat.

I hope he can turn it around. But the signs are not good. The team lacks identity. The team lacks toughness. We have seen no evolution of the offense. No one here can ever tell the forum what the "matt lafleur offense is" and thats a huge problem. Its a problem because when things get bad, teams have to have something they all know they can fall back on and rely on.

This team has no semblance of that at all.

team looks better, a lot better when the OL gets the job done, and when it's not, every aspect of the offense looks bad, seriously, prior to defenses (first 2 games) figuring this OL out the offense as a whole seemed better, plat calls seemed better, we had Jones and we ran better, and Love looked to make good decisions, threw more accurately, and showed some poise in the pocket, then we lost Bakh, then Jenkins, and pass rush has been a constant, and we rarely open run lanes.

we have a OL problem first and fore most, till we get that right, it's impossible to make a fair grade concerning anything else. jmo

Okay. Lets say I accept your premise that all of our problems stem from the OL. (I think most teams have a bad OL and they are forced to coach around it, but lets accept your premise)

Why was the OL so much better last year with basically the same personell? If anything it should be better as Myers is now a year older, Yosh hasnt been playing so allegedly someone better would be playing. Jenkins is back. I mean we basically didnt have Bakh last year anyways....

So who is responsible for the decline? I think calling all go routes on 3rd and 20 with a bad OL is a bad idea. I think we arent doing enough to compensate for the problem. Then I wonder why the regression. Is it all because Rodgers isnt telling them who to block presnap? You tell me what you think.

I think the issue stems from the HC

[go pak go]

I wills say this.

The Packers needed to be a tough football team who worked and preached the fundamentals. Good blocking. Good tackling. Being tough. Run the ball. Execute screen plays well. Make the opponents earn their victories.

Instead we lack toughness. We don't block. We get too cutesy in our playcalling.

I don't think MLF is the right coach for this particular team.

[Papa John]

The complaint that we need to play tougher football has been a consistent refrain for 12 years. To me, this team has not sustained an identity of toughness for any notable number of consecutive weeks since 2010. We have seen glimpses, but we'd always get exposed as frauds when someone like SF or NYG would come in and smack us around, wipe our face in the dirt.

My point in bringing up bad memories is that I think the problem goes beyond the HC. Is LaFleur a bum ass? Yes, of course. But there is a culture of softness that has transcended multiple head coaches, GM's, and coordinators.

As others have stated, most fans knew this year would be a challenge, given the salary cap situation. I don't know if anyone thought it would be this bad. This team looks demoralized. The coaches look lost. It just looks like a &%$@ show from top to bottom. For that, there is no excuse.

It starts at the top. I think we need a paradigm shift. We need to revamp our culture. Make it more Green Bay Packers Football and less Green Bay Packers, Inc..

[wallyuwl]

I blame Aaron rodgers. He didn’t do enough to develop Love. He hid from us the fact that Lafleur doesn’t know what he is doing, and he hid didn’t develop love enough. I blame Aaron.

Yeah. AR should have had Love at his house in CA or Nashville each offseason to practice. Dude clearly isn't headed for a career in coaching once retired from playing.

[Packfntk]

I agree with a lot said here. One thing to look at, is it our training staff? Our coaches? The players? Every game we are missing huge pieces of this team. The dudes that are getting paid the most, the dudes that are some of the biggest playmakers, all sitting, not toughing it out, and going out injured often and not coming back.

Yesterday guys who didn't play: LT1 Bak (IR, that is a completely different story), CB1 Jaire, LB1 Campbell all out. Hard to win games.

Then you have guys like Jones who played 23 snaps. Is he healthy? Can he play more? He is our best offensive player and he has barely been on the field this year.

Wyatt left and didn't come back. Savage left and didn't come back. Watson. the list never ends, these are all of our starters and guys we depend on. Everyone is always out or nursing something. Unlucky, or just medical staff being cautious? With a very young team, you can't have all of your best players sitting all the time.

[lupedafiasco]

I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.

It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.

[Drj820]

I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.

It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.

that seems absolutely unreal. It was on script the past few years that we would jump out to leads and then try to hold on through the middle of the games.

Can you find that report?