Packers @ Steelers GDT: Sunday, Nov. 12th, 12:00 PM CST

[go pak go]

I was gonna comment on the Sternberger interview and how it may offer some insights into why the QB and WRs seem to consistently be on different pages, how it could possibly be a main contributor to why Love is hesitant to let it rip, how Love may not trust the receivers to see and react the same to what he is seeing...but I've lost all interest because the same two adversaries have once again taken over the topic and turned the conversation into a mindless tail chasing exercise.



The answer is a resounding NO.

It's incredibly interesting and honestly makes sense. The talent is there. The mistakes made seem so correctable and many times bizzare. I am hopeful we continue seeing strides with the offense as the season roles along.

[TheWolfman]

I think sports news media people direct conversations and opinions in the direction they themselves feel strongly about, and all the talk has been lately that Lafleurs scheme designs are to complicated for rookies, people here say it, as well as media, to me that is mostly over blown hype.

Hello,

I like your recognizing how some in the sports media try to turn their opinions into facts because they keep repeating the same agreement. Then another commenter uses that false agreement and it takes on a life of it's own. Is it the O-line, or the QB, or the receivers, or a combination of all the above that is affecting the offence. Rookies do make mistakes, and defense's are difficult for QBs to read, and opposing defense's do field monsters that must be blocked. Simplifying game plans could help, but will be soon discovered by opposing teams. I like the HC and his staff, but not this GM. I believe he has gutted this team and if replaced it will take years to repair the harm he has done.

[APB]

It's incredibly interesting and honestly makes sense.

I agree.

Those details that Sternberger kept speaking to could very well be the reason we see Love hesitate just a split second too long in the pocket while he awaits confirmation his receiver is gonna break the way he expects. They could be the reason we see his ball accuracy just a bit off when he throws to a spot in anticipation of the receiver getting there. They could be the reason we see WRs running downfield in tandem rather than individual routes. The list is endless.

And I'm not saying those things as an excuse for Love, the receivers, MLF or anybody else. I'm saying it explains the growing pains we all expected all summer and are now witnessing first hand.

Do I think the offense should be doing better? Absolutely, especially by week 10 of the season. I certainly think MLF could have done a better job preparing these guys and with his play-calling. We finally saw what many expected all season in the Rams game - a focus on running the ball effectively with a complimentary pass game. Had they incorporated that philosophy earlier we may be looking at an entirely different stretch run scenario.

Anyway, I find Sternberger's comments to be more than just a former player airing grievances or reinforcing an agenda.

[Yoop]

It's incredibly interesting and honestly makes sense.

I agree.

Those details that Sternberger kept speaking to could very well be the reason we see Love hesitate just a split second too long in the pocket while he awaits confirmation his receiver is gonna break the way he expects. They could be the reason we see his ball accuracy just a bit off when he throws to a spot in anticipation of the receiver getting there. They could be the reason we see WRs running downfield in tandem rather than individual routes. The list is endless.

And I'm not saying those things as an excuse for Love, the receivers, MLF or anybody else. I'm saying it explains the growing pains we all expected all summer and are now witnessing first hand.

Do I think the offense should be doing better? Absolutely, especially by week 10 of the season. I certainly think MLF could have done a better job preparing these guys and with his play-calling. We finally saw what many expected all season in the Rams game - a focus on running the ball effectively with a complimentary pass game. Had they incorporated that philosophy earlier we may be looking at an entirely different stretch run scenario.

Anyway, I find Sternberger's comments to be more than just a former player airing grievances or reinforcing an agenda.

how could Lafleur do that? your failing to recognize not only the injury to Jones, but also the abysmal run blocking, so how was Lafleur suppose to be more productive by calling more run plays.

as to receivers being ask to recognize DB leverage to know which way to break there routes, that is how receivers are trained on every team, making there routes one dimensional would be so simple to diagnose they would be open even less then they are now.

news media are looking for someone to blame, imo thats what Bukowski was doing, and the interview with Sternberger accomplished that.

[LombardiTime]

Interesting.

Would also help explain some early struggles this year with such a young team.

Conversely, the "simplicity" of the Steeler offense might help explain why Pittsburgh has struggled on that side of the ball for years and why Steeler offensive coordinator Matt Canada is perhaps the most reviled coordinator in all of the NFL.

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/10/matt- ... rdinators/

[Yoop]

Interesting.

Would also help explain some early struggles this year with such a young team.

Conversely, the "simplicity" of the Steeler offense might help explain why Pittsburgh has struggled on that side of the ball for years and why Steeler offensive coordinator Matt Canada is perhaps the most reviled coordinator in all of the NFL.

https://steelersdepot.com/2023/10/matt- ... rdinators/

nice find, it makes sense with Sternbergers comments, I think it's something about Pittsburg most of us expected, the Steelers are known as a defensive team far more then a offensive juggernaut.

Pitts play calling ranks near worst.

Packers play calling ranks near the top.

[APB]

It's incredibly interesting and honestly makes sense.

I agree.

Those details that Sternberger kept speaking to could very well be the reason we see Love hesitate just a split second too long in the pocket while he awaits confirmation his receiver is gonna break the way he expects. They could be the reason we see his ball accuracy just a bit off when he throws to a spot in anticipation of the receiver getting there. They could be the reason we see WRs running downfield in tandem rather than individual routes. The list is endless.

And I'm not saying those things as an excuse for Love, the receivers, MLF or anybody else. I'm saying it explains the growing pains we all expected all summer and are now witnessing first hand.

Do I think the offense should be doing better? Absolutely, especially by week 10 of the season. I certainly think MLF could have done a better job preparing these guys and with his play-calling. We finally saw what many expected all season in the Rams game - a focus on running the ball effectively with a complimentary pass game. Had they incorporated that philosophy earlier we may be looking at an entirely different stretch run scenario.

Anyway, I find Sternberger's comments to be more than just a former player airing grievances or reinforcing an agenda.

how could Lafleur do that? your failing to recognize not only the injury to Jones, but also the abysmal run blocking, so how was Lafleur suppose to be more productive by calling more run plays.

as to receivers being ask to recognize DB leverage to know which way to break there routes, that is how receivers are trained on every team, making there routes one dimensional would be so simple to diagnose they would be open even less then they are now.

news media are looking for someone to blame, imo thats what Bukowski was doing, and the interview with Sternberger accomplished that.

I’m not failing to recognize anything. This O-Line has largely been intact all season outside of Bakh. Yeah, some nicks and bruises along the way, like every other team, but certainly not decimated. Fact is, MLF has been consistently out schemed and Dillon hasn’t been the runner he’s been in the past. They’re both seemingly coming around now.

I have read and re-read the rest multiple times. Thanks again for sharing.

[Yoop]

I agree.

Those details that Sternberger kept speaking to could very well be the reason we see Love hesitate just a split second too long in the pocket while he awaits confirmation his receiver is gonna break the way he expects. They could be the reason we see his ball accuracy just a bit off when he throws to a spot in anticipation of the receiver getting there. They could be the reason we see WRs running downfield in tandem rather than individual routes. The list is endless.

And I'm not saying those things as an excuse for Love, the receivers, MLF or anybody else. I'm saying it explains the growing pains we all expected all summer and are now witnessing first hand.

Do I think the offense should be doing better? Absolutely, especially by week 10 of the season. I certainly think MLF could have done a better job preparing these guys and with his play-calling. We finally saw what many expected all season in the Rams game - a focus on running the ball effectively with a complimentary pass game. Had they incorporated that philosophy earlier we may be looking at an entirely different stretch run scenario.

Anyway, I find Sternberger's comments to be more than just a former player airing grievances or reinforcing an agenda.

how could Lafleur do that? your failing to recognize not only the injury to Jones, but also the abysmal run blocking, so how was Lafleur suppose to be more productive by calling more run plays.

as to receivers being ask to recognize DB leverage to know which way to break there routes, that is how receivers are trained on every team, making there routes one dimensional would be so simple to diagnose they would be open even less then they are now.

news media are looking for someone to blame, imo thats what Bukowski was doing, and the interview with Sternberger accomplished that.

I’m not failing to recognize anything. This O-Line has largely been intact all season outside of Bakh. Yeah, some nicks and bruises along the way, like every other team, but certainly not decimated. Fact is, MLF has been consistently out schemed and Dillon hasn’t been the runner he’s been in the past. They’re both seemingly coming around now.

I have read and re-read the rest multiple times. Thanks again for sharing.

this OL has been inconsistent all year, we see multiple free rushers every game, the run blocking is bottom third in the league, and Dillon has rarely carried the run game for us.

and Matt has been top tier play caller according to our own beat writers as well as the article Lombardi time just brought.

whats coming around APB besides getting some key players healthy are these receivers.

don't understand why you want people here to shut up whenever they disagree about a thing, I never meant to offend anyone, simply thought that Bukowski interview with Sternberger was meant to lay guilt at Lafleur, which I felt was unfair.

[Yoop]

I did listen to it 004, 3 times, and admit it wasn't so much to lay blame with Lafluer, but thats what it amounted to, the suggestion is that the route concepts are to difficult, yet those same type route concepts have been around since I was a kid, it's not something new, and every rookie has to go through the process of learning them, the reason some rookie receivers stud quickly is because they've already been taught that stuff in college which makes there transition easier, I know you know exactly what I'am talking about

[Madcity_matt]

we have for many years route design where (back to most of McCarthy's years had route variances) the receiver has a choice of breaking in or out depending on defender post snap adjustments.

that stuff is as old as the hills

Go watch it again, that isn't just what Sternberger is talking about. He is talking about the small details too and that not all offenses require the attention to detail that LaFluer's system does. For example he specifically mentions the exact yardage of a route outside the numbers and how they need to also be aware of the other routes that are being run. Are you saying that Sternberger is not being truthful in recounting his experiences in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo?

Jace Sternberger isn't a media guy, FYI. He is a player with real experiences in NFL offenses recounting those first hand experiences.

never said he was a media guy, maybe re read what I said, and every receiver has to know what you just described, and of the 3 teams two then are complicated and only Pittsburg runs a HS scheme.

also you don't know that Lafleur requires his rookie receivers to know every route, that was a McCarthy and Rodgers thing, course to be able to move receivers around it's obviously necessary.

I'am saying that Sternburger was probably led into some of the comments he made from Butkowski, what receivers coaches don't expect exact yardage to break or catch points? how is a QB suppose to know where to throw the ball?

again the whole point of that article was to shift blame from the receivers over to Lafleur, no sale.

I think we watched a different clip? I thought he was very complimentary of the Packers system, not disparaging it in the least. He attributed the complexity of the offense to the growing pains we are seeing, and which we all expected (or should have expected.) This is a young group learning together, it will take time to get the intricacies down.

[Madcity_matt]

But back to the game at hand. I am super excited for this game. I think it's a great test for this team, coming off a nice win. Playing a well coached team at a tough location. Running game is starting to purr, I hope we stay with it to slow the pass rush.

[Pugger]

We aren't getting this game. If we were better I'd try to stream it. I guess we'll be watching Red Zone. If we score some points tomorrow I'll see some of it...

[Yoop]

Go watch it again, that isn't just what Sternberger is talking about. He is talking about the small details too and that not all offenses require the attention to detail that LaFluer's system does. For example he specifically mentions the exact yardage of a route outside the numbers and how they need to also be aware of the other routes that are being run. Are you saying that Sternberger is not being truthful in recounting his experiences in Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo?

Jace Sternberger isn't a media guy, FYI. He is a player with real experiences in NFL offenses recounting those first hand experiences.

never said he was a media guy, maybe re read what I said, and every receiver has to know what you just described, and of the 3 teams two then are complicated and only Pittsburg runs a HS scheme.

also you don't know that Lafleur requires his rookie receivers to know every route, that was a McCarthy and Rodgers thing, course to be able to move receivers around it's obviously necessary.

I'am saying that Sternburger was probably led into some of the comments he made from Butkowski, what receivers coaches don't expect exact yardage to break or catch points? how is a QB suppose to know where to throw the ball?

again the whole point of that article was to shift blame from the receivers over to Lafleur, no sale.

I think we watched a different clip? I thought he was very complimentary of the Packers system, not disparaging it in the least. He attributed the complexity of the offense to the growing pains we are seeing, and which we all expected (or should have expected.) This is a young group learning together, it will take time to get the intricacies down.

again I have less issue with Stern as I do the reason why Bukowski chose a past receiver under Lafleur to critic his pass schemes, I still believe it's because Bukowski thinks Lafleur should have dummy down this offense to the level of the receivers, which may have helped short term, which is just a guess, and imo would only slow the development.

again, seems a lot of people want to question Lafleur not only as a play caller, but also as a coach.

Pitts might be well coached, I wouldn't know, but according to the report from a Pittsburg writer there Play calling ranks 28th or so in the league, Matt Lafleur according to that is ranked 5th.

imo injury and mistakes have been our down fall, the mistakes are bound to happen with young players, and mistakes steal consistency, as long as we improve week to week I think we can gut out some more wins.

[Madcity_matt]

I didn't get any indication whatsoever that he was critical of lafleur or thinks the offense should be dumbed down. He was interviewing someone who has played under both offenses and was pointing out the differences between the two. Stern was, if anything, was saying the opposite. If he became a coach he would use Lafleurs's playbook. That sounds pretty complimentary to me.

[lupedafiasco]

I only listened to half the podcast. Listening to Bukowski is tough to do. He sounds bitch made to me. Sternberger was a guy I liked a ton with my A&M bias but it turned out he was just not a smart guy unfortunately.

I’ll say with the first half I did hear he sounded like he was mostly praising Tomlin over LaFleur which I thought was weird because he spent significantly more time under LaFleur.

[Yoop]

I didn't get any indication whatsoever that he was critical of lafleur or thinks the offense should be dumbed down. He was interviewing someone who has played under both offenses and was pointing out the differences between the two. Stern was, if anything, was saying the opposite. If he became a coach he would use Lafleurs's playbook. That sounds pretty complimentary to me.

again, forget what Sternberger said, my issue is Bukowski, he is the guy who thinks Lafluer schemes are to complicated, that imo is why he brought a ex packer TE in to critic Lafleurs schemes,

Sternberger can compliment Lafleur all he wants, the point Bukowski wanted to make is that Pittsburg uses simpler route patterns that would be easier for rookie receivers to learn

[packman114]

As far as today's game goes, I am at the point now where I have no faith that MLF has put together a game plan to offset the edge rushers of the Steelers. I almost expect us to do the same stuff we always do...5-man routes where the OL has to win their 1-1s. Or he'll have Kraft and Sims 1-1 against Watt!

Hope I'm wrong.

[go pak go]

I didn't get any indication whatsoever that he was critical of lafleur or thinks the offense should be dumbed down. He was interviewing someone who has played under both offenses and was pointing out the differences between the two. Stern was, if anything, was saying the opposite. If he became a coach he would use Lafleurs's playbook. That sounds pretty complimentary to me.

again, forget what Sternberger said, my issue is Bukowski, he is the guy who thinks Lafluer schemes are to complicated, that imo is why he brought a ex packer TE in to critic Lafleurs schemes,

Sternberger can compliment Lafleur all he wants, the point Bukowski wanted to make is that Pittsburg uses simpler route patterns that would be easier for rookie receivers to learn

OR

He brought on a former player who played for the Steelers and the Packers. Because the Packers are playing the Steelers this week and it makes sense to get perspective from someone who played for both teams recently.

There can always be other answers. Just like there can be many variables. This thread has done a great job of bringing other practical viewpoints.

Be curious. Not Judgmental.

[Yoop]

I didn't get any indication whatsoever that he was critical of lafleur or thinks the offense should be dumbed down. He was interviewing someone who has played under both offenses and was pointing out the differences between the two. Stern was, if anything, was saying the opposite. If he became a coach he would use Lafleurs's playbook. That sounds pretty complimentary to me.

again, forget what Sternberger said, my issue is Bukowski, he is the guy who thinks Lafluer schemes are to complicated, that imo is why he brought a ex packer TE in to critic Lafleurs schemes,

Sternberger can compliment Lafleur all he wants, the point Bukowski wanted to make is that Pittsburg uses simpler route patterns that would be easier for rookie receivers to learn

OR

He brought on a former player who played for the Steelers and the Packers. Because the Packers are playing the Steelers this week and it makes sense to get perspective from someone who played for both teams recently.

There can always be other answers. Just like there can be many variables. This thread has done a great job of bringing other practical viewpoints.

Be curious. Not Judgmental.

Buttkowski's motives are clear, somethings wrong and someone should be blamed, just watch as Bukowski laughs and snickers as Sterno explains the added difficulty with attention to detail comparing our routes to Pittsburg, that was exactly what Bukowski wanted to get out of that interview, to point out that Lafleur should have simplified the pass routes for these young receivers, he did the same stuff with Rodgers last year, creating doubt is his way of assigning blame.

theirs only one right answer, motives matter, why pick a ex receiver? there are 52 other players he could have asked, no he chose Stern to show the difference in our receiver training compared to others and more simple teachings of college and Pittsburg, duh.

Variables, other answers? people infuse comments like that GPG to disagree with practical opinions, common sense, while you and others swoon to Bukowski, I question why he chose the player he did to get the answers he got, why because it reflects on the skills of my head coach, you and others tend to sugar coat that obvious detail

I think WHY people ask the questions they do matters, everything after that is there opinion, and news people are trained to make there opinions palatable and sound very good, I took offense as soon as I saw Pete laugh and snicker, and choosing our EX TE had a lot more to do then just getting some pitts player to interview before this game, don't be so gullible, motives matter in everything we do.

Peter Bukowski is a very crafty journalist, and I enjoy much of his work, but I'am not so naive to think he didn't have his reasons for the topic of his interview, he can spout praise for Lafleur all he wants concerning any other thing, but imho thats not what his goal was this time.

[APB]

Yeah boy!

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