From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
poor field condition typically benefits offense, and that was on display as both offenses moved the ball well with 29 pts or more and over 400 yrds of offense, however we were beaten in every facet of the game that mattered, we had penalties to the tune of over 70 yrds, we didn't block well, and the tackling was terrible, yet we only lost by 5 pts, in the first half I was worried about a blow out.
no more resting starters in PS games
We actually prevailed in perhaps the most significant statistic when it comes to winning or losing games in the NFL, turnover differential.
Records Based Off Turnover Margin Since 2005 (Regular-Season):
+1 888-410-5 68.4% +2 699-150 82.3%
That we gave up 34 points despite the 3 takeaways and despite being +2 in the turnover battle makes the defensive performance look that much worse in my estimation.
The defense didn’t play well in their first week of a scheme against one of the best offenses in the league. I’m not that concerned yet. There was a lot to like still.
I think if the offense does it’s job and doesn’t &%$@ the bed in the first quarter we are up 17 points to 0 and have a lot of pressure on the Eagles. The offense &%$@ the bed more IMO.
34 = Most points allowed in a single game by Joe Barry’s D in 2023.
Sure the field sucked, Philly has a good offense, the game was in Brazil, it was Halfley’s first-ever game as Defensive Coordinator, and any other explanation (excuse) one can come up with, but if Joe was still the DC he would be getting ripped for allowing the Eagles offense to generally dominate while putting up 34 on Friday night, and rightfully so.
Watching the game back, the tackling was bad like atrociously bad.
Indy has a QB who will be making start number 6 or so in his career, Tennessee has Will Levis, and Sam Darnold is the QB in Minnesota. Two of the three games are at Lambeau.
No (good) reason a D featuring 7 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and 2 prominent free agents should not be expected to hold these three offenses down.
See, this is what I mean when I say, Packer fans don't get that D is greatly impacted by O. If the O gets more possessions, it's more shots at scoring that otherwise would not have happened, but for the offense not scoring and controlling the ball for longer.
If the Packers score TDs on those two early turnovers, this game probably goes like the Dallas blowout and the opposing offense never sniffs 34 points. That Dallas offense was also good and had weapons. Instead, they only get 6 out of it, like they only got 3 against Detroit in the same situation and got blown out rather than blowing out DET.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
As for the "we had a HOF QB and great offense for years, therefore offense was not to blame" argument... that overlooks both that Rodgers began to coast in the late McCarthy era and our offense was not great (don't even begin to think about denying that, McCarthy would not have been &%$@'canned if our O was fine). Then we hire MLF and the offense is still just okay in Year 1, then we draft Love and it lights a fire under Rodgers's ass so he plays hard for two years, then gets another contract and gets fat again and coasts.
And in those two banner years, we saw how the O sputtered out hard in those playoff losses. They couldn't get anything going against TB until Q3, then slumped again next quarter. Against SF, our O had one good drive from the jump but then Lewis fumbled one away and we packed it in.
Capers was not the problem and never was. Pettine and Barry had to go regardless, their defense was bad on a schematic level.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
34 = Most points allowed in a single game by Joe Barry’s D in 2023.
Sure the field sucked, Philly has a good offense, the game was in Brazil, it was Halfley’s first-ever game as Defensive Coordinator, and any other explanation (excuse) one can come up with, but if Joe was still the DC he would be getting ripped for allowing the Eagles offense to generally dominate while putting up 34 on Friday night, and rightfully so.
Watching the game back, the tackling was bad like atrociously bad.
Indy has a QB who will be making start number 6 or so in his career, Tennessee has Will Levis, and Sam Darnold is the QB in Minnesota. Two of the three games are at Lambeau.
No (good) reason a D featuring 7 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and 2 prominent free agents should not be expected to hold these three offenses down.
See, this is what I mean when I say, Packer fans don't get that D is greatly impacted by O. If the O gets more possessions, it's more shots at scoring that otherwise would not have happened, but for the offense not scoring and controlling the ball for longer.
If the Packers score TDs on those two early turnovers, this game probably goes like the Dallas blowout and the opposing offense never sniffs 34 points.
See, this is what I mean when I say, Packer fans don't get that the Packer D has been unacceptable whether the offense has sputtered, not sputtered, played in the rain, in a dome, at home, whatever.
And I am certainly not contending the offense does not share its share of the blame for the loss in Brazil, that is a separate argument.
But when I look back at the Packers blowout win against Dallas referenced above, I still see a defense that allowed the Cowboys to score 32 points that day and to me that is sniffing 34 points.
But hey, if Friday's defensive performance was acceptable to a segment of fan base because the offense itself sputtered, we'll leave it at that.
As for me and as stated above, I have not given up on Halfley, but I certainly hope to see noticeable improvement over Friday's performance and improvement sooner rather than later on defense.
Not worried about the scheme but key guys need to be better. Kenny Clark was trash. I re watched the game and he sucked. Ppf grade like 30 that needs to change
Quay Walker was a mess too. So inconsistent. So athletic but not a good football player at this point.
TJ Slayton and Brooks struggled also. Need more on the interior. I get the field was bad but phillys big boys didn't struggle like this
DAL scored 32 because we stupidly pulled starters before the offense folded, you had guys like Robert Rochelle at CB against Ceedee Lamb, taking the foot off the gas much opposed to what MLF famously said ("all gas, no effing brakes!"). In reality, the game was not as close as the score; Dallas had no real chance after halftime.
And also, yes, Barry was bad, too.
Prematurely pulling the starters and relaxing too early is definitely a valid criticism of our D-Coord. Just making it about having given up [X] number of points being "unacceptaboo" without any further inquiry needed, making it some general principle/orthodoxy... glosses over what actual mistake need be fixed (don't pull starters and call vanilla plays too early)
But yes, the best defense is a good offense: the less time and fewer chances you give the other team to score, the better. It's just math, at some level. And you force them to abandon the run so you can tee off on them in the pass-rush and call coverage defense to gets INTs.
MLF's line about "complementary football" while cliched is 100% true. The O needs to hold up its end when the D comes through. To force three turnovers but not put the other team away, in this NFL, is the more "unacceptable" thing.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
34 = Most points allowed in a single game by Joe Barry’s D in 2023.
Sure the field sucked, Philly has a good offense, the game was in Brazil, it was Halfley’s first-ever game as Defensive Coordinator, and any other explanation (excuse) one can come up with, but if Joe was still the DC he would be getting ripped for allowing the Eagles offense to generally dominate while putting up 34 on Friday night, and rightfully so.
Watching the game back, the tackling was bad like atrociously bad.
Indy has a QB who will be making start number 6 or so in his career, Tennessee has Will Levis, and Sam Darnold is the QB in Minnesota. Two of the three games are at Lambeau.
No (good) reason a D featuring 7 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and 2 prominent free agents should not be expected to hold these three offenses down.
See, this is what I mean when I say, Packer fans don't get that D is greatly impacted by O. If the O gets more possessions, it's more shots at scoring that otherwise would not have happened, but for the offense not scoring and controlling the ball for longer.
If the Packers score TDs on those two early turnovers, this game probably goes like the Dallas blowout and the opposing offense never sniffs 34 points.
See, this is what I mean when I say, Packer fans don't get that the Packer D has been unacceptable whether the offense has sputtered, not sputtered, played in the rain, in a dome, at home, whatever.
And I am certainly not contending the offense does not share its share of the blame for the loss in Brazil, that is a separate argument.
But when I look back at the Packers blowout win against Dallas referenced above, I still see a defense that allowed the Cowboys to score 32 points that day and to me that is sniffing 34 points.
But hey, if Friday's defensive performance was acceptable to a segment of fan base because the offense itself sputtered, we'll leave it at that.
As for me and as stated above, I have not given up on Halfley, but I certainly hope to see noticeable improvement over Friday's performance and improvement sooner rather than later on defense.
The defense should NEVER give up more than 20 points.
With what has been invested into the defense it should absolutely never give up more than 20. Unfortunately the price doesn’t meet the pro yet in the field. And I continue to say this but at some point we need to stop pointing fingers at the DCs.
As for the "we had a HOF QB and great offense for years, therefore offense was not to blame" argument... that overlooks both that Rodgers began to coast in the late McCarthy era and our offense was not great (don't even begin to think about denying that, McCarthy would not have been &%$@'canned if our O was fine). Then we hire MLF and the offense is still just okay in Year 1, then we draft Love and it lights a fire under Rodgers's ass so he plays hard for two years, then gets another contract and gets fat again and coasts.
And in those two banner years, we saw how the O sputtered out hard in those playoff losses. They couldn't get anything going against TB until Q3, then slumped again next quarter. Against SF, our O had one good drive from the jump but then Lewis fumbled one away and we packed it in.
Capers was not the problem and never was. Pettine and Barry had to go regardless, their defense was bad on a schematic level.
I think your confusing coasting, with lack of talent for McCarty's schemes to work, we had Rodgers and Adams on offense, and a coach who used the run to set up the pass, but basically only Adams to throw too.
and please name all the studs on defense prior to 2020?
everyone here understands the concept that the more the offense is on the field the more likely it is for the defense to play better, one aspect stands out, our offense often left the field because it scored quickly, that is how McCarthy designed our offense, that alone means the defense will be on the field more, and that worked when the offense had better receivers, so between 2015 and 2019 minus that stable of receiver talent the offense struggled and the defense became more exposed because it for years had mediocre talent. jmo.
Well, I guess Spags should be fired. 22 points given up to SF, 32 given up to Philly. Those KC fans just don't have standards like packer fans do.
I didnt realize Spags has 7 first round and 2 second players on his defense in addition to 2 highly paid FA acquisitions like Preston and McKinney.
thing is every situation is unique, UDFA can become stars, while first round picks flounder, and obviously some DC are able to scheme fit players better then others, and for a host of reasons that we know nothing about.
to say if a offense stays on the field longer it will help the defense, well that seems true, will it actually make that defense better, not really, take away our explosive offenses over the years and the defense still sucked, why? people are only kidding themselves to think lack of talent was not the main issue, and it was not just a drafting issue either, although that wasn't great either, but our defense was a walking mash unit, we lost whole position groups of starter talent year after pitiful year, one year all the CB are gone, the next it's pass rushers, and we never really had more then 1 good safety or ILB ever back then, so to blame a DC???? thats a real stretch.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I want to gripe about 140+ yards rushing given up.
Then, I also want to remember:
1. Week 1
2. Playing a good offense
3. Still containing a great scrambling QB (mostly)
4. Team looks sloppy overall
5. Elite RB
Conclusion? I really don't know what to say. It wasn't adequate. Everybody would say so. But I'll defer to the rest of September for now and look at the larger body of work.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
I want to gripe about 140+ yards rushing given up.
Then, I also want to remember:
1. Week 1
2. Playing a good offense
3. Still containing a great scrambling QB (mostly)
4. Team looks sloppy overall
5. Elite RB
Conclusion? I really don't know what to say. It wasn't adequate. Everybody would say so. But I'll defer to the rest of September for now and look at the larger body of work.
Stokes was and still is one of the worst tacklers I’ve ever seen.
I saw Bullard and McKinney make tackles Savage would have whiffed on. I also saw Bullard lay the wood.
One thing I’ve noticed about LaFleur is that his teams rarely blow out other teams. The Dallas game last year is the exception although he almost screwed the pooch.
McCarthy’s Packers had a lot of blow outs some years. Sometimes several in a row.
I really question LaFleur’s ability to manage a game. Going for 2 early and then kicking a field goal in the 4th quarter. If it were just this game, I’d disagree with his decisions and then I’d be ok with it. However, he hasn’t improved over the years in my eyes.
Overall he has done a good job bringing along this young team but other coaches continually out coach him on game day.
For the Eagles game, LaFleur put a lot of pressure on the defense and the defense couldn’t get the job done. But neither could LaFleur…
Last edited by Foosball on 09 Sep 2024 19:31, edited 1 time in total.
I really question LaFleur’s ability to manage a game. Going for 2 early and then kicking a field goal in the 4th quarter. If it were just this game, I’d disagree with his decisions and then I’d be ok with it. However, he hasn’t improved over the years in my eyes.
I had no qualms with his decision to go for two early. The Packers were in a position to make up the 1 pt score offset after the Eagles were penalized on the extra point try. It was one yard to gain. I don't care it it's the 1st qtr, I'd expect the decision to be to take advantage of the penalty gift. The fact the Packers couldn't gain 1 yd should be your complaint, not MLFs decision to try it.
Lots of chatter that the defensive approach in game 1 was to limit Hurts' running and force him to beat the Pack by throwing from the pocket.
GB indeed limited Hurts to 33 yards on 13 carries, so he certainly did not run wild like he did in the game in Philly back in 2022.
However, the Eagles also put up 34 points (only 2 teams scored more in week 1), so it is difficult to call the approach a success.
Wonder if Halfley will employ the same "contain the running QB" strategy against another mobile QB this weekend in Richardson or whether we see something different?
Lots of chatter that the defensive approach in game 1 was to limit Hurts' running and force him to beat the Pack by throwing from the pocket.
GB indeed limited Hurts to 33 yards on 13 carries, so he certainly did not run wild like he did in the game in Philly back in 2022.
However, the Eagles also put up 34 points (only 2 teams scored more in week 1), so it is difficult to call the approach a success.
Wonder if Halfley will employ the same "contain the running QB" strategy against another mobile QB this weekend in Richardson or whether we see something different?
Hurts and Richardson are on two different levels of consistency and expereince as passers. Richardson would have been my guy to take #1 overall because if you were going to swing for the fences at a QB why would you not take what is probably the most physically gifted athlete at the position ever. Hes Cam Newton size with Lamar Jackson running ability and has probably top 5 arm strength in the league.
That said he is just looking to run or throw bombs. Contain him in the pocket and try and make him throw. His accuracy and decision making is still shaky. The guys on the backend need to be poised and get their heads around to track his deep shots. The last thing you need is big pass interference calls. Make them earn it.
I want to gripe about 140+ yards rushing given up.
Then, I also want to remember:
1. Week 1
2. Playing a good offense
3. Still containing a great scrambling QB (mostly)
4. Team looks sloppy overall
5. Elite RB
Conclusion? I really don't know what to say. It wasn't adequate. Everybody would say so. But I'll defer to the rest of September for now and look at the larger body of work.
traction, poor footing, leads to poor tackling, Scott if ya can re watch, you will see players lose footing and even fall down trying to react to change of direction runs, Walker, Cooper, Alexander, most of our players in fact at one time or another could only reach tackle because there feet where churning up tundra.
that needs to change
