Packers Defense - 2024

[Drj820]

[Drj820]

how many times have I said the ST is going to cost us? well its cost us two games out of 4 already...how many more in the future?

Pretty sure everybody on this forum saw this train wreck coming, Nostradamus. The only difference being many here held some level of hope or optimism for Narveson to do well and to allow this struggle to actually play out before calling it an abject failure. That, as opposed to, you know, declaring it a failure before a single kick was ever attempted.

Did not mean to upset you, mod.

But I was not just speaking on this year. I was speaking on the past few years. From zook, to drake, to no kicker on the roster now…it’s cost us before and it is still costing us.

[NCF]

how many times have I said the ST is going to cost us? well its cost us two games out of 4 already...how many more in the future?

Pretty sure everybody on this forum saw this train wreck coming, Nostradamus. The only difference being many here held some level of hope or optimism for Narveson to do well and to allow this struggle to actually play out before calling it an abject failure. That, as opposed to, you know, declaring it a failure before a single kick was ever attempted.

Did not mean to upset you, mod.

But I was not just speaking on this year. I was speaking on the past few years. From zook, to drake, to no kicker on the roster now…it’s cost us before and it is still costing us.

What's the solution? I have run out of ideas.

[NCF]

By any objective measure, the BEST defensive player on the Green Bay Packers through 4 games is Xavier McKinney.

I don't think it is any coincidence McKinney was NOT DRAFTED by nor COACHED BY the Green Bay Packers prior to the 2024 seasons.

We just have no clue how to draft, develop, scheme, coach up, whatever you want to call it, defensive players.

Gary, Wyatt, LVN, Clark, Walker, Stokes all first round picks, compared to Minnesota's group and we were outclassed. Again.

This is not just on Hafley or Dom or Barry at this point. The ORGANIZATION has failed and continues to fail.

I would say the second best player on the defense has been Javon Bullard. It's still a case-by-case study as far as I am concerned. Where are the trends?

Gary, LVN, Wyatt all took a ton of time to develop into mid-level players.

Guys like Savage, Stokes, Blake Martinez, and others started off somewhat strong and regressed along the way. Starting to look like Jaire fits in this group, too.

Personally, I think there is SOME failure in re-inventing the defense every 2-3 years from late Dom, to Pettine, to Barry, to Hafley. No continuity. No real continuity with star, cornerstone players, either. Jaire up-and-down, hurt all the time, Z good for a cup of coffee and out the door, Gary ACL, etc.

I am not chalking this all up to bad luck, but there is some of that here. Similar to the ST woes, what is the solution? It's kind of like the Bears on offense. If you keep changing it, you never really have a system in place, never really have the right players to fit that system, and perpetually suck. So what do we do?

[Drj820]

Pretty sure everybody on this forum saw this train wreck coming, Nostradamus. The only difference being many here held some level of hope or optimism for Narveson to do well and to allow this struggle to actually play out before calling it an abject failure. That, as opposed to, you know, declaring it a failure before a single kick was ever attempted.

Did not mean to upset you, mod.

But I was not just speaking on this year. I was speaking on the past few years. From zook, to drake, to no kicker on the roster now…it’s cost us before and it is still costing us.

What's the solution? I have run out of ideas.

scouting dept seems solid in many areas. Seems awful when choosing specialist, whether thats snapper, kicker, or even punter (before whelen). Might need to hire an expert whose only job is to focus on acquiring players who are not awful at these positions.

[LombardiTime]

By any objective measure, the BEST defensive player on the Green Bay Packers through 4 games is Xavier McKinney.

I don't think it is any coincidence McKinney was NOT DRAFTED by nor COACHED BY the Green Bay Packers prior to the 2024 seasons.

We just have no clue how to draft, develop, scheme, coach up, whatever you want to call it, defensive players.

Gary, Wyatt, LVN, Clark, Walker, Stokes all first round picks, compared to Minnesota's group and we were outclassed. Again.

This is not just on Hafley or Dom or Barry at this point. The ORGANIZATION has failed and continues to fail.

I would say the second best player on the defense has been Javon Bullard.

I am not chalking this all up to bad luck, but there is some of that here. Similar to the ST woes, what is the solution? It's kind of like the Bears on offense. So what do we do?

I agree that Bullard has looked pretty good. I also have a probably irrational fear he will evolve into just another mediocre Packer defensive player and hope he sticks close to McKinney for guidance on how to play the game.

As for what to do, I believe the first thing is admitting there is a problem. After 14 straight seasons of mostly mediocre to poor defensive play under now 4 different DCs, there should be a thorough internal audit. And I definitely include the scouting department & GM.

There have been massive whiffs (Perry over Harrison Smith, Kevin King over TJ Watt) and several just underwhelming selections like Savage and, unfortunately it looks like Q Walker.

How many defensive players have exceeded their draft status since 2010? Kenny Clark? Maybe a couple of others, maybe?

Why have the defensive picks been so blah when a Zach Tom or Cory Linsley or an Aaron Jones become good players far exceeding their draft profiles?

I would also strongly consider going outside the organization for more defensive talent (Gilmore, Phillips, Murphy, Van Ginkel, Cashman, Bullard, Greenard, & more defenders in purple yesterday all played for other teams).

I like Clark, Gary, Jaire as they have all been good to very good players during parts of their Packer careers. But they are not great players and all too often are just there, yet they are being paid like they are great players.

One thought I’ve had is that the emphasis on RAS is likely to lead to the drafting of a Savage over a McKinney, but who knows.

In my view, Packer management been also been to willing to pay top dollar for less than top dollar performances on the defensive side of the ball.

Now, I could be wrong about all of this (and I foolishly predicted the 2022 D would be a top 10 unit on this board), and I sincerely hope I’ll look back at this post in a few months and laugh about it.

But after 4 weeks, Hafley’s D looks pretty much like the previous 13 versions and that is simply not good enough.

Would love to hear from others with thoughts about the never-ending defensive struggles

[Pckfn23]

It's been 4 games under Hafley. 2 good ones, 1 bad one, and one meh. It's a bit premature to make overarching determinations concerning the D as a whole.

Yesterday we were missing 2 of our top 3 corners. Yesterday our pass rush struggled, which should be the core of our defense.

Hafley's D doesn't look like the last few iterations. There are some start differences, namely not letting a rookie get comfortable and look like an All Pro.

Let's see this play out.

[Yoop]

Slaton - 330
Wyatt - 304
Clark - 315
Brooks - 296

Our DTs are not undersized.

Gary - 277
Smith - 265
Van Ness - 272
Enagbare - 258

Our DEs are not undersized.

This group simply needs to step it up especially Clark and Gary.

heavier then they play, wimpy hands, stood up, contained far to often, that is what I see.

[Pckfn23]

Slaton - 330
Wyatt - 304
Clark - 315
Brooks - 296

Our DTs are not undersized.

Gary - 277
Smith - 265
Van Ness - 272
Enagbare - 258

Our DEs are not undersized.

This group simply needs to step it up especially Clark and Gary.

heavier then they play, wimpy hands, stood up, contained far to often, that is what I see.

Not what I was addressing. Was addressing this false narrative:

we have a nascar DL, when 280+ go against 310 lb + OL one on one there already at a disadvantage,

Our DL is not undersized and thus already at a disadvantage.

[Yoop]

Would love to hear from others with thoughts about the never-ending defensive struggles

Andy Herman made a good point, youth, we again are the youngest team in the league, and we can't play man coverage every snap, and zone requires more experience, add that our 2 best CB's didn't play, so we should expect what we saw yesterday, or some of it anyway.

as to pass rush, our DL have to better break the holds of the OL man they face, biggest problem they have is not fending off the grabs and allowing themselves to be stood up and contained, we saw Jones run right by them because the OL were locked on.

they faced a well coached OL, if there going to beat a group like that they have to shed those blocks.

first thoughts that come to mind, and just my opinions

[Yoop]

Slaton - 330
Wyatt - 304
Clark - 315
Brooks - 296

Our DTs are not undersized.

Gary - 277
Smith - 265
Van Ness - 272
Enagbare - 258

Our DEs are not undersized.

This group simply needs to step it up especially Clark and Gary.

heavier then they play, wimpy hands, stood up, contained far to often, that is what I see.

Not what I was addressing. Was addressing this false narrative:

we have a nascar DL, when 280+ go against 310 lb + OL one on one there already at a disadvantage,

Our DL is not undersized and thus already at a disadvantage.

they play like one, probably why I thought they were lighter, and because they can't shed a block, there at a disadvantage, they got schooled yesterday, and have been before, unless they bring a 5th rusher.

agree shouldn't have called them nascar, they just havn't played up to there weight

[go pak go]

agree shouldn't have called them nascar, they just havn't played up to there weight

What does that even mean?

[Yoop]

agree shouldn't have called them nascar, they just havn't played up to there weight

What does that even mean?

lighter of course, whatever, the issue is there not shedding blocks, so it's not just a size issue.


t's a name the Giants used under Steve Spagnoulo for when they would put four defensive ends on the field instead of the usual 2 DEs 2 DTs to get a better pass rush.Nov 9, 2018


In football, a NASCAR defensive front is a defensive line that consists of speed rushers, such as defensive ends and linebackers. Steve Spagnuolo often used this front in pass situations with players like Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, and Osi Umenyiora.

[go pak go]

agree shouldn't have called them nascar, they just havn't played up to there weight

What does that even mean?

lighter of course, whatever, the issue is there not shedding blocks, so it's not just a size issue.


t's a name the Giants used under Steve Spagnoulo for when they would put four defensive ends on the field instead of the usual 2 DEs 2 DTs to get a better pass rush.Nov 9, 2018


In football, a NASCAR defensive front is a defensive line that consists of speed rushers, such as defensive ends and linebackers. Steve Spagnuolo often used this front in pass situations with players like Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, and Osi Umenyiora.

It's not a size issue at all.

We have the size. We have the speed. Our players just need to win their matchups. They all have the pedigree and history that supports they can do it. They just haven't done it.

[APB]

how many times have I said the ST is going to cost us? well its cost us two games out of 4 already...how many more in the future?

Pretty sure everybody on this forum saw this train wreck coming, Nostradamus. The only difference being many here held some level of hope or optimism for Narveson to do well and to allow this struggle to actually play out before calling it an abject failure. That, as opposed to, you know, declaring it a failure before a single kick was ever attempted.

Did not mean to upset you, mod.

But I was not just speaking on this year. I was speaking on the past few years. From zook, to drake, to no kicker on the roster now…it’s cost us before and it is still costing us.

Being a Mod has got nothing to do with it nor am I upset about anything. Just didn’t see why you’d post an “I-told-you-so” message when it has been a blatantly obvious team issue for some time.

But sure, take your lap if it flips your pancake.

[APB]

This isn’t good but I also place a significant part of the blame on pass rush. A capable QB will pick any secondary apart if there’s no pressure.

Also, Keisean Nixon is regressing, not improving. He’s good for an occasional splash play but he gets beat way too often. He plays with his eyes in the backfield far too much.

[wallyuwl]

139.3. Oof.

[go pak go]

This isn’t good but I also place a significant part of the blame on pass rush. A capable QB will pick any secondary apart if there’s no pressure.

Also, Keisean Nixon is regressing, not improving. He’s good for an occasional splash play but he gets beat way too often. He plays with his eyes in the backfield far too much.

I don't think I would ever consider Nixon as "good" in this league. He was a good returner in 2022 who also happened to be serviceable in nickle.

It was cute when he was on a small contract. But he is not on a small contract anymore. We can and need to be better at nickle. I was really hoping Kalen King would step up this summer but that isn't the case. I am all for getting Bullard and Williams on the field more on 1st and 2nd down and then having Alexander play the slot on 3rd and obvious passing situations.

[APB]

I am all for getting Bullard and Williams on the field more on 1st and 2nd down and then having Alexander play the slot on 3rd and obvious passing situations.

There’d be a lot of support for that player alignment on this forum, I suspect.

[Drj820]

Buffalo actually has a guy right now who is a playmaker that could keep Nixon off the field. I think he’d be a perfect fit. Name is rasul Douglas. We should trade for him,