2025 Jordan Love

[Pckfn23]

So by that logic it was a down right coincidence that Randall Cobb and Allen Lazard went to the Jets. We have established that they both suck worse than a 30 year old vacuum.

[lupedafiasco]

Like I said earlier Rodgers was absolutely in the right to take matters into his own hands about getting better WR talent after the embarassing amount of failures by the GM. He was just wrong about the player he wanted to bring in. It should have never gotten to the point of ROdgers needing to make demands for better pass catchers. When Gutenbumst signed Graham to a big deal when he was physically done, makes Mercedes Lewis your top TE option, cant draft a WR worth a lick...

I mean the evidence is all there right in front of you of how bad a job Gutenbumst did to draft offensive skill positions. The only 3 players on offense that were worth a damn were TT players in Rodgers, Adams, and Jones. I guess Jamal Williams to an extent.

Even on the offensive line outside of Jenkins during that stretch he never did anything that great. He shelled out his worst contract to date by giving Billy Turder $7M a year over 4 years and didnt get any talent worth keeping until the 2022 draft in Tom and Walker. By that time the offense had deteriorated so much it wasnt enough for an offense of almost exclusively rookies to be successful.

[Yoop]

Like I said earlier Rodgers was absolutely in the right to take matters into his own hands about getting better WR talent after the embarassing amount of failures by the GM. He was just wrong about the player he wanted to bring in. It should have never gotten to the point of ROdgers needing to make demands for better pass catchers. When Gutenbumst signed Graham to a big deal when he was physically done, makes Mercedes Lewis your top TE option, cant draft a WR worth a lick...

I mean the evidence is all there right in front of you of how bad a job Gutenbumst did to draft offensive skill positions. The only 3 players on offense that were worth a damn were TT players in Rodgers, Adams, and Jones. I guess Jamal Williams to an extent.

Even on the offensive line outside of Jenkins during that stretch he never did anything that great. He shelled out his worst contract to date by giving Billy Turder $7M a year over 4 years and didnt get any talent worth keeping until the 2022 draft in Tom and Walker. By that time the offense had deteriorated so much it wasnt enough for an offense of almost exclusively rookies to be successful.

hell yes, our highest pick for a receiver since 2014 was amari bust Rogers, any 15 year vet QB would become frustrated with that abuse, sometimes I wish we didn't have Rodgers, just maybe it would have forced our GM's to build this team with a different approach versus wasting every high pick on defense, defense is impossible to build through just the draft, and specially if your pick slot is late in every round, I hate drafting bottom third in round one, most players in that grouping are over drafted 3rd, 4th or later tired positional talent, and we've sure missed on more of them than we've hit on.

if ya don't have ammo, the gun don't shoot

[Labrev]

Wrong, Christian Watson was our highest pick. And he basically saved our season as a rookie, if only someone hadn't shelved him until like Week 12 in favor of Cobb, Watkins, etc.

Love took this group to the playoffs as a first-year starter. In fact, we have been more successful with him in these past two seasons than our last two with Rodgers. There's also a refreshing lack of excuse-making now, given that we have a QB that takes $%@# accountability rather than one who creates a culture of pointing fingers and throwing teammates under the bus.

In fact, our passing game was a bright spot for us last year, with the exact same group of players we have this year. Funny how this new gun is able to shoot fine with ammo provided by the same FO...

So all the kvetching about our WRs just amounts to "I like when the WRs play well, and I don't like when they play poorly." Okay, well DUH! Everyone knows we need our players to play well.

That doesn't make it a talent acquisition problem, especially not when we have SEEN the talent in question show the ability to perform, on-field.

[RingoCStarrQB]

With 2nd tier RBs you need a receiving corp of the 2010 team quality (Jones, Jordy, Driver, Finley, Jennings).

With top tier RBs like Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett you can get by with an injury plagued WR corp (Brooks) as long as you have Keith Jackson and Chmura and Freeman, and you pick up a Andre Rison. Beebe and Howard as backups wasn't enough. Ron Wolf adjusted marvelously!

OK. It's 2025 and we've got the RBs and a TE. But our receivers can't consistently stay on the field. Plus our pass blocking isn't as good as it needs to be. This is the responsibility of Gutensheissenbumst and LaCoach.

[lupedafiasco]

With 2nd tier RBs you need a receiving corp of the 2010 team quality (Jones, Jordy, Driver, Finley, Jennings).

With top tier RBs like Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett you can get by with an injury plagued WR corp (Brooks) as long as you have Keith Jackson and Chmura and Freeman, and you pick up a Andre Rison. Beebe and Howard as backups wasn't enough. Ron Wolf adjusted marvelously!

OK. It's 2025 and we've got the RBs and a TE. But our receivers can't consistently stay on the field. Plus our pass blocking isn't as good as it needs to be. This is the responsibility of Gutensheissenbumst and LaCoach.

Glad you brought up Rison. Something I have said the Packers have needed to do now for damn near a decade. At some point you need to recognize your in season deficiencies and make an addition.

[RingoCStarrQB]

With 2nd tier RBs you need a receiving corp of the 2010 team quality (Jones, Jordy, Driver, Finley, Jennings).

With top tier RBs like Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett you can get by with an injury plagued WR corp (Brooks) as long as you have Keith Jackson and Chmura and Freeman, and you pick up a Andre Rison. Beebe and Howard as backups wasn't enough. Ron Wolf adjusted marvelously!

OK. It's 2025 and we've got the RBs and a TE. But our receivers can't consistently stay on the field. Plus our pass blocking isn't as good as it needs to be. This is the responsibility of Gutensheissenbumst and LaCoach.

Glad you brought up Rison. Something I have said the Packers have needed to do now for damn near a decade. At some point you need to recognize your in season deficiencies and make an addition.

Gutenscheissenbumpst

[Yoop]

Wrong, Christian Watson was our highest pick. And he basically saved our season as a rookie, if only someone hadn't shelved him until like Week 12 in favor of Cobb, Watkins, etc.

Love took this group to the playoffs as a first-year starter. In fact, we have been more successful with him in these past two seasons than our last two with Rodgers. There's also a refreshing lack of excuse-making now, given that we have a QB that takes $%@# accountability rather than one who creates a culture of pointing fingers and throwing teammates under the bus.

In fact, our passing game was a bright spot for us last year, with the exact same group of players we have this year. Funny how this new gun is able to shoot fine with ammo provided by the same FO...

So all the kvetching about our WRs just amounts to "I like when the WRs play well, and I don't like when they play poorly." Okay, well DUH! Everyone knows we need our players to play well.

That doesn't make it a talent acquisition problem, especially not when we have SEEN the talent in question show the ability to perform, on-field.

Labrev, I can't keep up with your arguments, Rodgers was MVP in 2021 imho because he was able to do more with less resources than any other QB in the league, and my arguments center on receivers acquired between the years 2014 with Adams and ending in 2021, 2022 Watson and Doubs were rookies, and Rodgers had less to do with there play time than you think, Lafleur is the coach for crip sakes, just blame Rodgers for everything, you refuse to acknowledge my point, the Packers minus Rodgers for most of the last decade would have done no better than Detroit or other low ranking teams, Rodgers is the main person responsible for our win loss record and division wins, wow, talk about biting the hand that feeds you, your acting delusional about this stuff

[Labrev]

That's not how it works.

We would have been mediocre or poor without Favre for all those years we had him, but that does not absolve him of blame in playoff losses; he is still to blame for blowing those playoff games we lost with his INTs.

And Favre had WAY more valid excuses than Rodgers ever did. All the ridiculous crying about Rodgers's WRs when he had so many good ones for most of his career. Favre on the other hand had fewer seasons with *good* WRs than Rodgers had with bad ones.

[lupedafiasco]

Honestly there no use in arguing with Labrev. Rodgers did something to him at some point and time and he will never let it go. It’s weird to have such disdain for one the leagues bests players ever when he played for your team.

As for Favre, he usually had a competent 1 and a competent 2 which you can get away with because when the double teams go the 1s way in the playoffs because no DC is letting a single player beat them the 2 has to win. That’s why we saw Lazard be utterly useless and offensively cost us the game against the Buccs.

Favre also never had to deal with generationally bad STs units or perpetually bad defenses. Even when Rodgers had the great pass rating season of all time he had the worst defense in the league.

[APB]

Honestly there no use in arguing with Labrev. Rodgers did something to him at some point and time and he will never let it go. It’s weird to have such disdain for one the leagues bests players ever when he played for your team.

As for Favre, he usually had a competent 1 and a competent 2 which you can get away with because when the double teams go the 1s way in the playoffs because no DC is letting a single player beat them the 2 has to win. That’s why we saw Lazard be utterly useless and offensively cost us the game against the Buccs.

Favre also never had to deal with generationally bad STs units or perpetually bad defenses. Even when Rodgers had the great pass rating season of all time he had the worst defense in the league.

I find it comical you keep laying the blame at Lazard’s feet for the playoff loss to the Bucs. He was far from the key reason the Packers lost that game.

[Yoop]

That's not how it works.

We would have been mediocre or poor without Favre for all those years we had him, but that does not absolve him of blame in playoff losses; he is still to blame for blowing those playoff games we lost with his INTs.

And Favre had WAY more valid excuses than Rodgers ever did. All the ridiculous crying about Rodgers's WRs when he had so many good ones for most of his career. Favre on the other hand had fewer seasons with *good* WRs than Rodgers had with bad ones.

BS, that is exactly how it works, quit crying about stuff you have to read a book to know anything about, Favre had at least a #1 and 2 receiver every season he played, he also had a good running attack and a TE, defense and ST's, and Wolf loaded up skill position talent for the SB run, you just make stuff up to defend your hate for Rodgers and it's become pathetic Labrev, seriously I don't get it, forget your personal animosity for Rodgers, he will be remembered as one of our greatest players we've ever had

[RingoCStarrQB]

Honestly there no use in arguing with Labrev. Rodgers did something to him at some point and time and he will never let it go. It’s weird to have such disdain for one the leagues bests players ever when he played for your team.

As for Favre, he usually had a competent 1 and a competent 2 which you can get away with because when the double teams go the 1s way in the playoffs because no DC is letting a single player beat them the 2 has to win. That’s why we saw Lazard be utterly useless and offensively cost us the game against the Buccs.

Favre also never had to deal with generationally bad STs units or perpetually bad defenses. Even when Rodgers had the great pass rating season of all time he had the worst defense in the league.

I find it comical you keep laying the blame at Lazard’s feet for the playoff loss to the Bucs. He was far from the key reason the Packers lost that game.

We lost the Bucs game because Lafleur's coaching sucked and continues to suck in the playoffs. I don't see that trend going away soon.

[lupedafiasco]

Honestly there no use in arguing with Labrev. Rodgers did something to him at some point and time and he will never let it go. It’s weird to have such disdain for one the leagues bests players ever when he played for your team.

As for Favre, he usually had a competent 1 and a competent 2 which you can get away with because when the double teams go the 1s way in the playoffs because no DC is letting a single player beat them the 2 has to win. That’s why we saw Lazard be utterly useless and offensively cost us the game against the Buccs.

Favre also never had to deal with generationally bad STs units or perpetually bad defenses. Even when Rodgers had the great pass rating season of all time he had the worst defense in the league.

I find it comical you keep laying the blame at Lazard’s feet for the playoff loss to the Bucs. He was far from the key reason the Packers lost that game.

Offensively Lazard lost that game. Defensively it was Kevin King. Absolutely those two lost us that game. Followed by Billy Turder.

[Labrev]

I used the example of another player i.e. NOT Aaron Rodgers to explain why I don't accept excuses for any player, on principle....

... and sure enough, the response of Rodgers FNGGRLZ is:

The little aside about receiver quality was beside the point.

Favre made us a perennial playoff team. And, he choked in the playoffs routinely.

He is not absolved of choking just because we would have been worse without him.

They don't get to win the playoff game just because they played well in the regular season; they have to *perform* in the game itself, and all their great play up to that point goes down the drain. Because *THAT* is how it works, fangirls.

The same is true of Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and literally any and every other player.

[Labrev]

And I've noticed that whenever I'm absolutely obliterating someone's position in a debate, my opponents... not just here, in football convo, but even more often in politics convo... so often retreat into this exact line of retort: "uh, wow!! You are just so full of HAET for [_XYZ_]!! You are too blinded by your emotions against XYZ to see anything outside your point of view."

And there are countless reasons why that's a stupid retort. But here's the biggest problem with it...

... it doesn't prove that what I've said isn't true.

You could prove to the whole world, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I have this extreme, white hot, all-consuming *hatred* of Aaron Rodgers, or whoever and whatever else... and yet, that in no way, shape, or form proves that my vicious takedowns of him or whatever else is not 100% true.



IS IT TRUE OR NOT, MFer????

No, I don't reject your arguments because I am too blinded by rage to see it your way. I reject your arguments because they are schitt.

Try again.

[musclestang]

I don't think you see the world as clearly as you think you do LOL

[Labrev]

I don't think you see the world as clearly as you think you do LOL

That's fine, wasn't claiming to.

The question still stands. What that I said is not true?

But as I write this, I think I am realizing why this weird line of retort is always used by the ones who have no substantive arguments left to make. It's not that the person making it believes it's persuasive. No, it's a coping mechanism! You have to tell yourself that, no, actually, my beliefs weren't just thoroughly disproven by facts, it's just *he* can't see truth (and as a bonus, I get to make a dig at the guy who crapped on my precious opinions). It doesn't prove anything, it just makes the person who says it feel better.

Man, that is some sad cope...

[lupedafiasco]

The problem is you have no objectivity. Everything to you is Rodgers fault and it cant be any other reason. You are trying to use Favre to somehow prove a point about Rodgers when they aren’t even in the same conversation of greatness. There is also a huge discrepancy in the eras despite so little time. In Favres era a 40 TD passing season, or a 1000 yard receiver, or a 5000 yard passing season were all massive accomplishments. In this era it’s completely normal for all those things. Hell a 1000 yard receiving season isn’t even impressive. You could get away with less receiving talent but that isn’t the case anymore.

The other thing you fail to mention is just how bad the STs and defenses were during Rodgers time compared to Favres. How often was Favre playing with a generationally bad STs unit? The majority of Rodgers career was surrounded by atrocious STs play. Even the year they won the SB they had a really bad STs.

Defensively Rodgers had significantly worse defenses than Favre did and at more consistency. Rodgers career had just 3 top 10 scoring defenses and just 1 after his SB. Favre had it 7 times in his career.

[NCF]

Even the year they won the SB they had a really bad STs.

I don't think this is true, at all. What were the rankings? The special teams (the punt team, specifically) won us a game in NY (9-0) and played a major part in winning the NFC Championship Game. The early Rodgers years Teams units were pretty good. 2014 changed everything. The defense was so up and down. Mostly down when Rodgers was God mode and up when the rest of the offense couldn't match other years. The LaFleur years have been epically bad on ST, so nothing to argue about there.

Edit: Huh, I'll be GD'd.

In 2010, the Green Bay Packers finished 29th in the NFL for special teams, tying the 2009 New Orleans Saints for the worst finish by a Super Bowl champion.