Viking week - GDT

[Pckfn23]

I would bet 3 out of 4 of those guys plays on Thursday.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't even know what Greene's injury is, but the big ones, Bak, Jones, and King, I will not be surprised if all three sit.

@Pckfn23, still leaning your way? Today was likely our "heavy" day even though there never was going to be pads this week and still not sure either will be able to go.

Absolutely. Limited Participant doesn't sway me with these vets. Now if they were DNP, then I would maybe reconsider.

[Yoop]

But there is a difference between a Dlinemen dropping in a zone coverage in the middle of the field compared to taking a big body out of the box and putting him where a safety should be. Preston Smith has business being this close to the boundary.

it does seem nuts.
The Packers were without Kirksey, King, Raven Greene and Will Redmond so maybe that was part of the decision ?

We had Chandon Sullivan who only got 16 snaps. We still have Amos and Savage. Walk one of them done instead of splitting Preston out wide on a TE...

it is about size, if you have a lber that has the ability to cover the TE then thats who you task to do it, just go look at teams that have a Kendricks type ILB, most of the time they are schemed to do so, and please (sense I have no idea) just how many catches did Prestin give up to that TE?? (1) ????

In that vid Prestin dropped and I think it's Barnes that stunted the A gap, our biggest problem stopping the run Sundays where the ILB's, Cook pushed outside stretch but then cut it back into the A and B gaps and neither of Martin or Barnes held there gaps, sure plenty of blame goes to Lowery and the Dt's, even the Smiths, bnut the biggest issues where the ILB's imo.

[NCF]

Absolutely. Limited Participant doesn't sway me with these vets. Now if they were DNP, then I would maybe reconsider.

I also wonder about Lazard and Kirksey. I would expect they would be in the same boat, but we could really use both this week.

[Pckfn23]

it does seem nuts.
The Packers were without Kirksey, King, Raven Greene and Will Redmond so maybe that was part of the decision ?

We had Chandon Sullivan who only got 16 snaps. We still have Amos and Savage. Walk one of them done instead of splitting Preston out wide on a TE...

it is about size, if you have a lber that has the ability to cover the TE then thats who you task to do it, just go look at teams that have a Kendricks type ILB, most of the time they are schemed to do so, and please (sense I have no idea) just how many catches did Prestin give up to that TE?? (1) ????

In that vid Prestin dropped and I think it's Barnes that stunted the A gap, our biggest problem stopping the run Sundays where the ILB's, Cook pushed outside stretch but then cut it back into the A and B gaps and neither of Martin or Barnes held there gaps, sure plenty of blame goes to Lowery and the Dt's, even the Smiths, bnut the biggest issues where the ILB's imo.

Preston was split out wide on the TE... Multiple times... As was missed before it isn't all about the catches, it is also about taking a run defender out of the box. That's a poor scheme. Walk a safety down instead of splitting out a 270 OLB.

Without a run threat an ILB may be tasked with covering the TE. With a run threat the ILB will be tasked with covering the RB a vast majority of the time. And teams with ILBs with coverage ability like Kendricks do cover RBs a majority of the time. It happened Sunday.

[Pckfn23]

Absolutely. Limited Participant doesn't sway me with these vets. Now if they were DNP, then I would maybe reconsider.

I also wonder about Lazard and Kirksey. I would expect they would be in the same boat, but we could really use both this week.

I would be VERY surprised if those 2 were not activated. We have 3 open spots right now.

[go pak go]

[BF004]

Can't we just wake back up Sunday morning and redo these last 3 days, including smoking the Queens, holding Cook to under 20 yards on the day, no COVID and somehow get Fuller for a 4th.

[go pak go]

Can't we just wake back up Sunday morning and redo these last 3 days, including smoking the Queens, holding Cook to under 20 yards on the day, no COVID and somehow get Fuller for a 4th.

And the Giants not get screwed by the refs and upset the Bucs.

[Yoop]

We had Chandon Sullivan who only got 16 snaps. We still have Amos and Savage. Walk one of them done instead of splitting Preston out wide on a TE...

it is about size, if you have a lber that has the ability to cover the TE then thats who you task to do it, just go look at teams that have a Kendricks type ILB, most of the time they are schemed to do so, and please (sense I have no idea) just how many catches did Prestin give up to that TE?? (1) ????

In that vid Prestin dropped and I think it's Barnes that stunted the A gap, our biggest problem stopping the run Sundays where the ILB's, Cook pushed outside stretch but then cut it back into the A and B gaps and neither of Martin or Barnes held there gaps, sure plenty of blame goes to Lowery and the Dt's, even the Smiths, bnut the biggest issues where the ILB's imo.

Preston was split out wide on the TE... Multiple times... As was missed before it isn't all about the catches, it is also about taking a run defender out of the box. That's a poor scheme. Walk a safety down instead of splitting out a 270 OLB.

Without a run threat an ILB may be tasked with covering the TE. With a run threat the ILB will be tasked with covering the RB a vast majority of the time. And teams with ILBs with coverage ability like Kendricks do cover RBs a majority of the time. It happened Sunday.

OK, obviously a lot depends on the ability of the opposing offense, if they are a good running team the ILB's will have to play the run, however if your defending against a Cook type RB then it's a matter of match ups and that is all I should have to say about this, Pettine obviously felt (and we saw) that Prestin was a liability defending the edge against Cook, hell he was whipped like a unwanted step child against that TE, couldn't beat him rushing the pass and destroyed against the run, it's probably a god send that he played the TE man up when he went on a route, we needed a safety defending the edge, Prestin can't shed a block. where is Gary?

imho the only time you can man up a ILB on a RB is when you have a Kendricks type ILB, otherwise your just asking to get toasted, what do you think the reason is for us this last decade? most of the time even with a average RB thats a huge mis match, heck we all know this 23, we've been watching this happen for years now, teams with stud TE's and good receiving RB's just rip us apart because we are forced to use a safety on a much bigger TE and a clumsy ILB to try and cover the RB, sure when we had Barnett at hybrid ILB he was a pretty good matchup, but Barny played big for a safety, still no match physically for the bigger TE's, imo what you describe is a mis match at both positions, sure obviously a defense is stuck in that coverage, but imho not by choice.

[Pckfn23]

ILBs generally take RBs in coverage, safeties take TEs. That's the reality. It's because the eyes of the ILB start on the RB for run defense. If his eyes aren't there and on the TE, he can't defend the run. If his eyes are on the RB and he has the TE in coverage there is no way he can get there. There are things that can be done to mix this up, but this is generally the reality of the situation. It is the same for every team and has been for decades.

[williewasgreat]

no way you or 23 will ever convince me that a DC would task a 6' 200 lb safety against a 6'5" 250 TE unless he had no other choice, that doesn't even make sense, right????

I will take exception to this statement. This is exactly what I used to have to do as strong safety. This is very similar to my size when playing. While I didn't often see 6'5" TEs, most were at least 6'2". A smaller player uses positioning, quickness and brains to cover a TE. Watch the good safeties in the league and they can cover TEs very well. Now LBs are often fast enough to do this, but they don't always have the agility needed. The very fast TEs are the ones that are difficult to cover consistently.

[BF004]

I mean this has been debated, verified, and the discussion is all but over. But yes, the way defenses will generally draw up coverage packages that don’t have 2 deep safeties , the safeties will cover the TE’s, the LB’s cover the RB’s. This is passes the eye test watching games. This isn’t a debate worth any more time.

[Yoop]

I mean this has been debated, verified, and the discussion is all but over. But yes, the way defenses will generally draw up coverage packages that don’t have 2 deep safeties , the safeties will cover the TE’s, the LB’s cover the RB’s. This is passes the eye test watching games. This isn’t a debate worth any more time.

well lets talk about cookies then, everyone loves COOKies, we so needed ours last Sunday, the Vikes sat back in 2 high, there lbers covered the short zones, and we failed to exploit those empty spaces, Williams is a fine #2 RB but he doesn't have the ability to force a defense into single high safety and we don't have the receivers that can win the 2 on 1 coverage unless they start catching them more consistently, Aaron Jones imho would have gashed those lbers and forced the vikings to bring down a safety to support the run and short ball options.

I think now more then ever we need to resign Jones, right now with him and Adams in the game, a DC has to game plan doubles or some sort of over the top support to stop them, and that also takes some of the pressure off the other receivers, it gives us half a chance to compete against the better defenses even if we never fix the defense against the run, at least the offense has a chance to stay on the field, out scoring opponents seems our best option at this stage.

I wish we could have signed a receiver, but thats a done deal now, we have to be better with who we have, hopefully we get Jones back some for thursday and the rest of the season.

some good comments from Dougherty chat

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sport ... 121828002/

[Pckfn23]

From Fennell:

Bright spot
Rookie linebacker Kamal Martin got his second consecutive start since being activated off injured reserve. Martin played 42 of 52 snaps on the defensive side of the ball. Despite an awful day by the defense, I thought Martin played well Sunday. He was playing faster and making quicker reads and decisions.

Now keep in mind, not all those reads and decisions were correct as he sometimes removed himself from his gap responsibility. I liked seeing him shed offensive linemen on the second level and then immediately triggering downhill to get a double-team off of defensive tackle Kenny Clark.

Martin also made a nice play on the perimeter by blowing up a throwback screen pass intended for Vikings WR Adam Thielen. His pursuit speed is evident any time you watch him. Unfortunately, Martin and RB Jamaal Williams and won’t play Thursday night against the 49ers due to a COVID-19 high-risk situation.

Dicey run defense
I took a deep look at the Packers’ run defense against the Vikings, and it was much worse watching it on live television.

So what went wrong? The conversation starts and ends with tackling. The Packers had 11 missed tackles, increasing their total now to 65 on the season. Pettine’s group is currently grading out as the worst tackling defense via Pro Football Focus.

Missed tackles from the free safety position – the last line of defense – can turn a pedestrian gain into a game-changing touchdown.

Schematically, several big runs from Cook hit on the backside of the intended run action. This tests and stresses defenders with their gap discipline. On some plays, the Packers stayed in their run fits, properly leveraged support and had many defenders rally to the ball. On others, one gap was left unoccupied and it resulted in a 21-yard touchdown.

Lack of press
The Packers coverage on the outside tends to not use much press technique. And the coverage and usage of press coverage get magnified on third down when teams are often passing to move the chains.

The Packers are currently using press coverage on 53.8 percent of third-down snaps, which ranks 31st in the NFL.

Third-down yards per attempt

With press coverage: 5.69.

Without press coverage: 8.43.

It’s important to note that all defensive schemes have pros and cons. There isn’t a defense that covers everything. So why is there a lack of press coverage from Pettine’s scheme?

He likes to play Cover 3 in third-and-long situations, and that scheme features bailing cornerbacks on the outside to take away the deep part of the field. This is designed to prevent long passes over the top, which is something the Packers have been good at preventing under Pettine.

He also likes to call zone-pressure schemes in third-and-medium situations. Pressure schemes often feature loose coverage on the outside with expectations of a quick throw underneath. This also allows coverage to have eyes in the backfield on the quarterback.

TE production
Green Bay’s tight ends produced against the Vikings with Robert Tonyan and Jace Sternberger combining for eight catches, 125 yards and five first downs.

Tonyan and Sternberger each generated an explosive play as well. Tonyan has five receptions of 20 or more yards this season (No. 3 among tight ends), trailing only Travis Kelce and Rob Gronkowski.

Tonyan used the coverage from two defenders on Davante Adams for 45 yards on a deep crossing route, It was the offense’s biggest play of the day.