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The decline of Nelson's explosion, leading to his release, and the 2018 Cobb injuries were devastating. No one expected the 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks to be playing that kind of role as rookies. It was really bad. I'm not denying it.
It was WORSE because MM still needed his WRs to win one-on-one.
Why I bring all of this up is because it PROVES that Aaron Rodgers alone is not enough. I heard on the radio the other day "As long as you have Rodgers you can pencil the team into the playoffs and at least possibly a super bowl contender" and I thought "my what short memories we have."
What these numbers and patterns indicate is that even a talent such as Rodgers requires a good coaching staff, and scheme, and players around him. What they show is that the team around Rodgers improved when Gutey got hired. The scheme around Rodgers improved when MLF got hired.
This 4-year outlook conclusively demonstrates that Gutey and MLF were instrumental in revitalizing Rodgers' career. That the organization, far from abandoning him or leaving him out to dry or mistreating him, helped lift him out of a slump, gave him the league's richest contract (at the time) and built around making him the best player he can be. That without the personnel moves made by Gutey and the scheme designed by MLF, Rodgers was languishing.
And yes, there are REASONS for that. But the fact that it happened proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 13-3 seasons and the NFC Championship games were not Rodgers succeeding despite his team, despite his GM, and despite his scheme... but in large part BECAUSE of those things. That giving Rodgers MLF and giving Rodgers a great running game and giving Rodgers an improved defense and giving Rodgers a massive extension and financial commitment in 2018 CANNOT be ignored. They cannot be written into a narrative of mistreatment. They can not be warped to tell the story that Rodgers willed his way to the NFC Championships games of his own volition, and not because of the help around him.
Rodgers needed a new scheme to succeed. And he needed a better team to succeed. Rodgers wanted a financial commitment by the team, and was given it. In short, this organization gave Rodgers everything he needs to succeed within 3 years EXCEPT a high caliber #2 WR. That is the ONLY thing he wasn't given. And yet, the fact that he was not given that is the ONLY thing most media narratives want to talk about.
And to be clear again, I WANTED to see him get that higher-caliber #2 WR. I WANTED several WRs from last year's draft. Very badly. I agree that it was a mistake not to get one, but do also agree that after round 2 was done, there weren't any guys who could immediately help, and take the team at their word that they were trying to move up at the end of round one and at the end of round 2 to get one.
I also maintain that a better WR2 would not have won us the Super Bowl last year. It might have made us 14-2 heading into the NFCCG last year instead of 13-3... but we lost that game because our best players and units didn't perform well and because Bakhtiari blew out his knee in practice, not because our weaknesses were exposed.
There are hard decisions that need to be made when it comes to developing a competitive team. Emotion and personal attachment need to play a minor role at best. If the GM and front office start making it personal, then they are unable to construct the best possible team as they are unable to be objective. Adding players into the decision making process only exacerbates this.
Communication is important, but I don't think it is always feasible. You are not going to explain every decision. That's just not logistically possible or important. With the coaching staff it would not hurt to get veteran opinions on the personnel, but after that it becomes counter productive. You get back into emotion over objectivity.
If Kumerow derailed this there is little the Packers could have reasonably done to appease Rodgers.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 05 May 2021 09:49, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
But the fact that it happened proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 13-3 seasons and the NFC Championship games were not Rodgers succeeding despite his team, despite his GM, and despite his scheme... but in large part BECAUSE of those things. That giving Rodgers MLF and giving Rodgers a great running game and giving Rodgers an improved defense and giving Rodgers a massive extension and financial commitment in 2018 CANNOT be ignored. They cannot be written into a narrative of mistreatment. They can not be warped to tell the story that Rodgers willed his way to the NFC Championships games of his own volition, and not because of the help around him.
Rodgers needed a new scheme to succeed. And he needed a better team to succeed. Rodgers wanted a financial commitment by the team, and was given it. In short, this organization gave Rodgers everything he needs to succeed within 3 years EXCEPT a high caliber #2 WR. That is the ONLY thing he wasn't given. And yet, the fact that he was not given that is the ONLY thing most media narratives want to talk about.
And to be clear again, I WANTED to see him get that higher-caliber #2 WR. I WANTED several WRs from last year's draft. Very badly. I agree that it was a mistake not to get one, but do also agree that after round 2 was done, there weren't any guys who could immediately help, and take the team at their word that they were trying to move up at the end of round one and at the end of round 2 to get one.
I also maintain that a better WR2 would not have won us the Super Bowl last year. It might have made us 14-2 heading into the NFCCG last year instead of 13-3... but we lost that game because our best players and units didn't perform well and because Bakhtiari blew out his knee in practice, not because our weaknesses were exposed.
Put another way, the story of Rodgers' neglect and decline is the story of the NFL evolving beyond MM's schemes. It's a story of the 2015-2017 drafts by TT. It's a story that pre-dates the current management.
Since Gutey and Murphy and MLF have taken over, Rodgers' story is one of ascension and progress and prosperity. That the predicament is being taken out on current management primarily due to poor communication involving a single first round draft pick (I said primarily, not exclusively), is a crime against the organization perpetrated by Rodgers far greater than any crime against the organization committed by the current management.
The Packers under the late TT/MM years did not prepare themselves for the decline of Jordy and Cobb and now Gutey is taking all the blame for it.
Probably could have moved up in round two if we weren’t idiots and traded up in round one.
Cool. A mistake.
One thing.
Like I said, you can focus on one thing or look at the big picture and see that without a shadow of a doubt the Packers' and Rodgers' situations have improved dramatically under Gutey and MLF. DRAMATICALLY.
Focusing on The Thing that's missing is confirmation bias to the nth degree. Focusing on the big picture, it is CLEAR that this team's management is committed to helping Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers succeed. And compared to their peers, they are doing very well. And compared to perfection, they need a WR2 and a Lombardi. That's it. That's the story. There is literally nothing that can change it. These are facts.
Last edited by YoHoChecko on 05 May 2021 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
The Packers under the late TT/MM years did not prepare themselves for the decline of Jordy and Cobb and now Gutey is taking all the blame for it.
seems that way, Rodgers is known to hold a grudge, but this seems so personal with him over Guty, it's why I said I don't think it's all about the Love pick, or Guty cutting Kumerow , it seems a culmination of Cobb and Nelson decline and then Guty not giving him more ready to play receivers then 4th 5th and 6th round rookies, when he could have taken a better prospect earlier or used FA to buy one, and I'd be willing to bet if Rodgers complained behind closed doors he got a brush off, that is what I think he is most upset about, the cold shoulder routine that we've heard from other players, such as the TJ Lang comments and who was that other PB Guard ahhhhh, my lousy memory, he said the same stuff, if your4 about to be cut, not even a text message of thank you and good bye, ya hear about it from the media, thats the kind of thing that would !@#$ me off.
It's the stuff you shake your head over, these are not the days of Lombardi when a Henry Jordan complains about money and finds a ticket to wherever in his locker the next day
Last edited by Yoop on 05 May 2021 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
My first thought of this, if true, was this. Who would want a QB showing this kind of character on their team? But then, if Aaron is desperate to be traded, maybe that's part of his plan.
In the end, I sure hope we really are not judging AR because of his personal opinions, tweeted or otherwise. I'd prefer him to just shut up and carry on.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
We better get a documentary crew or three all over this season. Gonna be great
Sounds like we needed one the last 2 or 3 years.
If 30 for 30 can make a documentary about the dynasty that never was in Buffalo they will absolutely make one on the Packers and not getting Rodgers more than one.
My first thought of this, if true, was this. Who would want a QB showing this kind of character on their team? But then, if Aaron is desperate to be traded, maybe that's part of his plan.
In the end, I sure hope we really are not judging AR because of his personal opinions, tweeted or otherwise. I'd prefer him to just shut up and carry on.
Any team in the league that doesn’t have a franchise QB. Basically half the league if not more. The 49ers had the third pick and tried.
What character do you not want? The one that really wants to win?
My first thought of this, if true, was this. Who would want a QB showing this kind of character on their team? But then, if Aaron is desperate to be traded, maybe that's part of his plan.
In the end, I sure hope we really are not judging AR because of his personal opinions, tweeted or otherwise. I'd prefer him to just shut up and carry on.
My first thought is this could be done very tongue in cheek. This doesn't really add a layer for me. Maybe a hint of truth, but nothing that supports the Fire Gute story.
We better get a documentary crew or three all over this season. Gonna be great
Sounds like we needed one the last 2 or 3 years.
If 30 for 30 can make a documentary about the dynasty that never was in Buffalo they will absolutely make one on the Packers and not getting Rodgers more than one.
Are they working on that one for Payton and Co. getting Brees more than one?
If 30 for 30 can make a documentary about the dynasty that never was in Buffalo they will absolutely make one on the Packers and not getting Rodgers more than one.
Are they working on that one for Payton and Co. getting Brees more than one?
Mike Silver said the league doesn't view Rodgers and Brees as equals (Rodgers better). Which is why you hear the complaints about the Packers more. Interesting if true. But the narrative isn't coming from teams, its coming from fans and the media. So it really doesn't matter. No reason Brees, Payton, and the Saints shouldn't get as much flak. But Brady is the reason for the narrative in the first place. You take him out of the equation and everyone else is on even ground for the most part.
QB's with more than 1 ring
Tom Brady – 6
Joe Montana – 4
Terry Bradshaw – 4
Troy Aikman – 3
Eli Manning – 2
Peyton Manning – 2 (he was there for 2, that's about it)
Ben Roethlisberger – 2
John Elway – 2 (same as Peyton)
Jim Plunkett – 2
Bob Griese – 2
Roger Staubach – 2
Bart Starr – 2* (obviously won more that 2 championships)
Mike Silver said the league doesn't view Rodgers and Brees as equals (Rodgers better). Which is why you hear the complaints about the Packers more. Interesting if true. But the narrative isn't coming from teams, its coming from fans and the media. So it really doesn't matter. No reason Brees, Payton, and the Saints shouldn't get as much flak. But Brady is the reason for the narrative in the first place. You take him out of the equation and everyone else is on even ground for the most part.
QB's with more than 1 ring
Tom Brady – 6
Joe Montana – 4
Terry Bradshaw – 4
Troy Aikman – 3
Eli Manning – 2
Peyton Manning – 2 (he was there for 2, that's about it)
Ben Roethlisberger – 2
John Elway – 2 (same as Peyton)
Jim Plunkett – 2
Bob Griese – 2
Roger Staubach – 2
Bart Starr – 2* (obviously won more that 2 championships)
Lotta good/great QB's not on this list.
I agree that Aaron Rodgers is *more talented* than Brees.
But Tom Brady and Joe Montana are also two of the least *talented* QBs on that list, when it comes to rare physical skills, arm talent, arm strength, etc.
Most talented is good for nothing. Ask Marino. Ask Favre. Ask Rodgers.
[mention]lupedafiasco[/mention] I think there should be a separate thread on your theory claiming the Packers as an organization don't want to win it all, just want to win enough to keep ticket prices high. If true, I'd want everyone in the front office fired. Do you wanna start that thread, or should I?
@lupedafiasco I think there should be a separate thread on your theory claiming the Packers as an organization don't want to win it all, just want to win enough to keep ticket prices high. If true, I'd want everyone in the front office fired. Do you wanna start that thread, or should I?
No need to start a separate thread on something everyone is scared to admit is true.
