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I went and goggled if Packer fans want to retain or trade Rodgers, the only site to actually petition fans for there response was Cheesehead TV, and the over whelming majority want to trade Rodgers, then I looked closer at the people posting, and holy moly the top poster was GPG, followed by aliases of who seem like other posters here and other Packer forums, so it seems fans who follow the team closely want to move on into the unknown future, however the few fans from Green Bay I know say most people from town want to keep him, so sense we know very few fans are so commited they join forums, I'd still think most Packer fans still want to keep him
I am not surprised by this.
I tend to link thins to the stock market. The "smart money" is largely voting to move on and the "retail money" wanting to keep the familiar face in place.
Smart money????? the stock market dived two days ago, and smart money lost there ass.
draft picks bust at over 40% so to think getting a bunch should we trade Rodgers is nothing more then speculation, the best chance we have to win a SB is to keep Rodgers and as much of this talent around him, till he retires, then deal with a rebuild, you want to eliminate our best hopes to get to the big game in the next 3 or so years, and you don't even know what the parameters are with Rodgers asking price, you listened to a bunch social media nerds that often spout fearsome proposals and bought in hook line and sinker, now we hear those comments had no validity, Rodgers himself said they where false.
Smart money doesn't mean they are right.
Smart money simply means "bets or opinions" made by those who are more ingrained, involved and knowledgeable about a subject.
This is why you argue with literally everyone. You "Goggle" something about Packers perspectives. You say your research has shown you that more "forum based or obsessed fans" want to move on but the casual fan wants to keep Rodgers.
I then correlate your findings to smart money and you blow up on a whole new tangent where you are fighting your own original assertion.
All I said is I agreed with your original post that the people who seem to want to move on are your forum guys. People who talk about and think about the Packers more "smart money" and your casual guys seem to want to see the familiar face more no matter the cost.
I never said who was right or wrong. You insinuated that. Smart money can absolutely be wrong.
Well, if we are gonna sell high Gute better strike gold on these draft picks you all are salivating
over right now or else it could be a while before we are relevant again.
Yeah. I guess I just don't care.
Like "irrelevancy" is an eventual likely threat anyway. So who cares if that happens in 2022 or in 2024?
The only counter to that in my calculus is if we get a trophy before that. It's why I was totally comfortable going all in during 2020 and 2021 like we did. But those both failed. And our ability to replicate what we had those two years is less for 2022 and the "cost" and likelihood of being completely irrelevant beyond 2022 is significantly higher if we don't move on sooner rather than later.
Unless Rodgers actually wants to win and his paycheck reflects it.
That is the only way I will be happy continuing with Rodgers.
You don't think Rodgers wants to win??
Pugger I am very disappointed in this response. I hate all straw-man and its tangents debate comebacks because they solve nothing outside of spur more emotion and detract from the actual conversation.
Of course I think Rodgers wants to win. The question is "how much does he want to win and who he wants to win with"
And do I have an answer to give you?....No I don't. Because we haven't seen what Rodgers has decided yet. Anything beyond that at this point is pure speculation and conjecture which is why I have include that qualifier in all of my posts.
I tend to link thins to the stock market. The "smart money" is largely voting to move on and the "retail money" wanting to keep the familiar face in place.
Smart money????? the stock market dived two days ago, and smart money lost there ass.
draft picks bust at over 40% so to think getting a bunch should we trade Rodgers is nothing more then speculation, the best chance we have to win a SB is to keep Rodgers and as much of this talent around him, till he retires, then deal with a rebuild, you want to eliminate our best hopes to get to the big game in the next 3 or so years, and you don't even know what the parameters are with Rodgers asking price, you listened to a bunch social media nerds that often spout fearsome proposals and bought in hook line and sinker, now we hear those comments had no validity, Rodgers himself said they where false.
Smart money doesn't mean they are right.
Smart money simply means "bets or opinions" made by those who are more ingrained, involved and knowledgeable about a subject.
This is why you argue with literally everyone. You "Goggle" something about Packers perspectives. You say your research has shown you that more "forum based or obsessed fans" want to move on but the casual fan wants to keep Rodgers.
I then correlate your findings to smart money and you blow up on a whole new tangent where you are fighting your own original assertion.
All I said is I agreed with your original post that the people who seem to want to move on are your forum guys. People who talk about and think about the Packers more "smart money" and your casual guys seem to want to see the familiar face more no matter the cost.
I never said who was right or wrong. You insinuated that. Smart money can absolutely be wrong.
smart money = obsessed fans are wrong just about as often as casual fans, because both read basically the same social media people and watch the same games and believe it or not casual fans do have football knowledge, at one time they where your age and took advantage if garnering football knowledge just as you have, seriously I got a chuckle out of reading some of the comments over at Cheesehead tv, it's the same disgruntled fans like you hell bent thinking that the past is a reflection on what the future will be if we keep Rodgers, and that is so lame imho, specially when you consider how maqny teams have went through exactly what we we've dealt with the last couple years and then went on to win the SB, we did it in the 90's with Holmgren and where beat out by the Niners and Dallas and Baltimore, Philly, Niners, even NE went through those same season ending losses prior to getting the crown, so that could also happen to us, your throwing in the towel...... for the sake of just wanting something else.
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
Like "irrelevancy" is an eventual likely threat anyway. So who cares if that happens in 2022 or in 2024?
The only counter to that in my calculus is if we get a trophy before that. It's why I was totally comfortable going all in during 2020 and 2021 like we did. But those both failed. And our ability to replicate what we had those two years is less for 2022 and the "cost" and likelihood of being completely irrelevant beyond 2022 is significantly higher if we don't move on sooner rather than later.
Unless Rodgers actually wants to win and his paycheck reflects it.
That is the only way I will be happy continuing with Rodgers.
You don't think Rodgers wants to win??
Pugger I am very disappointed in this response. I hate all straw-man and its tangents debate comebacks because they solve nothing outside of spur more emotion and detract from the actual conversation.
Of course I think Rodgers wants to win. The question is "how much does he want to win and who he wants to win with"
And do I have an answer to give you?....No I don't. Because we haven't seen what Rodgers has decided yet. Anything beyond that at this point is pure speculation and conjecture which is why I have include that qualifier in all of my posts.
The way you formed your sentence about Rodgers and winning was a little confusing, that's all. He has always come across as a competitive person so I was wondering what exactly you meant.
I hope all of us will accept whatever happens in the next week or two regarding what Rodgers decides. If he requests a trade I will be disappointed because IMO he is a generational talent that we will not see the likes of again any time soon. But it will be exciting to see what our future brings. It will truly tell us how good Gute and MLF are at their jobs.
If he decides he wants to return I hope those who wanted him to be traded will not treat him like a pariah. There are some guys on other forums who call him a lying creep (but use more colorful language) and have no use for him at all.
I will actually come out and say that, no, I do not think that Rodgers has the same drive to win that he used to have. Of course Rodgers wants to win, but no, I do not think he has the same "fire" to win that he may have once had.
At this point, I think he is content to let his individual accomplishments do the talking: his TD:INT ratio is in uncharted territory and probably the thing he will always be remembered for, regular season stats are amazing, playoff stats are actually quite solid despite the disappointing finishes. He's easily in the "all-time great" convo, much like Favre was at this point. He's just 1 MVP and 1 ring shy of Peyton Manning, who's considered even better than Favre.
That thing about the "chip on his shoulder" was true back when he had to prove himself. But now, for the most part, he is done needing to prove himself. The only real thing he yet needs to prove is that he can add another ring to his achievements, but when you win MVP, you kind of have a built-in defense of "Well, *I* was the best player in the league, don't look at me!"
Also, it used to be that when he lost big games, the doubters had a louder voice than his defenders, even a lot of Packer fans were doubters until 2010 because a lot of them thought that going with Rodgers over Favre was a mistake. Now he gets the Brett Favre treatment, albeit to a slightly lesser degree -- defenders can rival the doubters when he loses.
I'm sure he wants another ring quite badly, but I don't think missing out (the way we have been) bothers him that much anymore, given all these individual accolades he can fall back on, and the fact that his Legacy in an overall sense is pretty much *safe* at this point.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
I usually read your stuff for the humor, but this finally managed to hit that nail. What's important, heck, what constitutes winning, is subjective and a personal opinion. Given your statement, there's no point in debating whether the Pack has been successful (except for the years they won the last game of the season), much less who's responsible for it.
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
If all you are going to do is b*tch that the "team" let Rodgers down in 19, 20 and 21...then what makes you think an even worse team won't do it again in 22?
That is my main point I keep driving. I would love Rodgers back in a world where we could afford it and have a supporting cast with him.
Rodgers wasn't wonderful in the divisional playoff game a few weeks ago but had we not had one of the worst ST units I've ever seen the outcome of that game and perhaps the season could have ended so differently. Football is the ultimate team sport and if all aspects of the team are not performing well, especially in January, you aren't gonna win. I don't think there is a wide gap between the playoff teams this year. In a one game elimination tournament you can get booted out. The "best" team doesn't always win in the NFL playoffs - the hottest one does like the NYG recently.
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
So true Yoop. Shipping out #12 will certainly take the air out of the "Let's win the North" balloon. All the pressure would then shift to LaCoach. Hearing boos at Lambeau is disturbing. Lombardi said losing is habit. The Packers have become habitual losers in the playoffs (started in Super Bowl 32, then the Sherman era, and then in 2007 versus the Giants under McCoach .... the habit was briefly stopped in 2010 versus the Bears under McCoach .... then the habit started up again under both McCoach and LaCoach) ...... think about that.
Packers won championships when Hornung, Taylor, Starr and Favre won MVPs (Lombardi or Wolf as GMs, plus Lombardi had Vainisi building the team that brought Hornung, Taylor and Starr to Titletown before Lombardi arrived on the scene). Can't say that about the TT era. MVPs are meaningless without a ring to accompany the trophy.
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
So true Yoop. Shipping out #12 will certainly take the air out of the "Let's win the North" balloon. All the pressure would then shift to LaCoach. Hearing boos at Lambeau is disturbing. Lombardi said losing is habit. The Packers have become habitual losers in the playoffs (started in Super Bowl 32, then the Sherman era, and then in 2007 versus the Giants under McCoach .... the habit was briefly stopped in 2010 versus the Bears under McCoach .... then the habit started up again under both McCoach and LaCoach) ...... think about that.
No, your giving me a headache, thinking is what I'am trying not to do
If anything, it's that we put to much effort into NOT making mistakes, and we become tentative, imho this stems from the early years of McCarthy instilling that with Rodgers, course it seems Aaron has taken that to extremes, specially so in PO games, hard to nail it down though, we see him throw into double coverage often with Adams, rarely ever though with most of the other receivers.
hard to fault that approach though, most PO games are won by the team that makes the least mistakes and turn the ball over
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
So true Yoop. Shipping out #12 will certainly take the air out of the "Let's win the North" balloon. All the pressure would then shift to LaCoach. Hearing boos at Lambeau is disturbing. Lombardi said losing is habit. The Packers have become habitual losers in the playoffs (started in Super Bowl 32, then the Sherman era, and then in 2007 versus the Giants under McCoach .... the habit was briefly stopped in 2010 versus the Bears under McCoach .... then the habit started up again under both McCoach and LaCoach) ...... think about that.
Well McCarthy started by losing twice in the playoffs, and didn't even make it into the playoffs two more times, so if we had went with your plan, he and TT and AR shoulda been replaced well before the 2010 season....
Holmgren was worse: He lost three times in the playoffs before 1996, so he and Wolf and Favre shoulda been sacked.
Belichick had a stretch of 9 seasons with no SB wins, such a habitual loser. Shoulda been fired long ago.
I have bad news for you: There will never be a habitual winner. Not us, not any other team. It's no longer the 1960s.
League is larger, more professional and built for turnover at the top. There is no way anyone rises to the top for a long time, and even then, the variance in one-and-done playoffs would see them fail occasionally. Lombardi was incredible, so I'm not knocking on him, only illustrating the difference: Vince coached in only 10 postseason games. 6 of them were championship games. I wish LaFleur had gotten a free pass to the SB for the no 1 seed...
No I am throwing in the towel because we don't have the resources to put together as strong as a team as 2020 and 2021 and the "bill past due" is only going to be higher and higher the more we defer.
I personally don't want to pay dead cap and void year dollars in 2024 to pay for a team we assembled in 2022. But that is my personality.
I still don't understand your whole gripe with the smart money comment. Retail investors absolutely can be successful and be "right" at times.
It has never been a question of who will be right this year. That question is meaningless until time does it's thing and we can answer it. We won't know that answer until February 2023 at the earliest.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
I usually read your stuff for the humor, but this finally managed to hit that nail. What's important, heck, what constitutes winning, is subjective and a personal opinion. Given your statement, there's no point in debating whether the Pack has been successful (except for the years they won the last game of the season), much less who's responsible for it.
humor is important
we just finished 39-9 over the last 3 seasons, I'd call that winning, 11 winning season over the last 13, 1st in the div. 8 of those, so ya, imo thats the definition of winning, if winning to you is defined by SB trophy's, why have you backed a team you'd consider to be losers for however long you claim to be a Packer fan? since Rodgers has been our starting QB ( 14 years) only 1 team has won the SB more then once, maybe you should join a Patriot forum, move to NE and buy a Belichick hoodie.
BS, your throwing in the towel because all that seems to matter to you is winning it all, and you can't say that we wont have a strong enough team to win it all, that is you speculating and assuming that you know the future, Rodgers played well enough in both 019 and 2020 for us to advance, the supporting cast let him and us down, and if where to get technical it was the same this last year, mistakes killed us in all 3 seasons, more so I think then a shortage of talent.
the most important aspect of this for me seems the least important to you, and that is having a winning season, then comes making the playoffs, everything after that is frosting
when Lombardi said winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, he wasn't referring to a stat line, he was talking about attitude, and desire, and that a prerequisite for success is a winning attitude, shipping out Rodgers is counter productive with those goals in mind imo.
I usually read your stuff for the humor, but this finally managed to hit that nail. What's important, heck, what constitutes winning, is subjective and a personal opinion. Given your statement, there's no point in debating whether the Pack has been successful (except for the years they won the last game of the season), much less who's responsible for it.
humor is important
we just finished 39-9 over the last 3 seasons, I'd call that winning, 11 winning season over the last 13, 1st in the div. 8 of those, so ya, imo thats the definition of winning, if winning to you is defined by SB trophy's, why have you backed a team you'd consider to be losers for however long you claim to be a Packer fan? since Rodgers has been our starting QB ( 14 years) only 1 team has won the SB more then once, maybe you should join a Patriot forum, move to NE and buy a Belichick hoodie.
I read your stuff by accident
Just in case you make another accident and read this...the highlighted part is exactly what I was referring to. You'd call a winning record winning, I call winning the objective as winning - subjective, personal opinion as I stated. The reason I've backed the Pack since pre-Lombardi (the coach, not the trophy) days is that, for most of the 20th century, WHEN THEY WERE A REAL CONTENDER, they did really well. In the 21st century, not so much, but it's tough to cut the cord, especially when the team tantalizes so much and so often. I don't pay too much attention to what the other teams accomplish as I certainly want mine to be better (ala those Pats you recommend - if they can do it, why can't GB?).
Packers won championships when Hornung, Taylor, Starr and Favre won MVPs (Lombardi or Wolf as GMs, plus Lombardi had Vainisi building the team that brought Hornung, Taylor and Starr to Titletown before Lombardi arrived on the scene). Can't say that about the TT era. MVPs are meaningless without a ring to accompany the trophy.
I don't think the MVP award is meaningless without a ring. That award is an individual one whereas a ring is a TEAM accomplishment. The MVP voting is done before the playoffs even begin. There is an award for the SB MVP.
followed by aliases of who seem like other posters here and other Packer forums, so it seems fans who follow the team closely want to move on into the unknown future, however the few fans from Green Bay I know say most people from town want to keep him, so sense we know very few fans are so commited they join forums, I'd still think most Packer fans still want to keep him
