Packers Huddle

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 08:34

Drj820 wrote: ↑

24 Mar 2021 21:52

go pak go wrote: ↑

24 Mar 2021 14:01

See I think we did make major moves.

It's just that the players we made the major moves for played for the Packers in 2020.

I didn't expect King, Preston, Lowry or Jones to be on the 2021 roster. All of 4 of them look like they will be which comes at a major financial cost if you look at either move through the lenses of the 2021 cap or 2022 and beyond cap.

Are they the right moves? I don't know. I think that is the larger debate. But I certainly wouldn't call them conservative moves. This is "all in" type of moves that again is really putting most of our 3 - 4 year resources in a 2 year window.

I just don’t consider signing an all pro level rb to a team friendly deal and keeping 3 guys we would be happy to see go as making major moves. But

Edited

That's because you are judging a GM's past 4 years of work based on a week of his decisions.

The Bucs have done basically the exact same thing as the Packers this offseason by also keeping their guys. And yes. The Packers were a better team in 2020. It's just that their players played like sh*t when it mattered.

Do I think these moves will work for 2021? No I don't. Not unless we see large jumps from our 2019 draft class and the Smiths.

Not really, I was trying to respond to the comment that we made major moves by bringing back a rb and guys we would be happy to lose. I dont consider that to be much heavy lifting.

But I recognize this conversation isn't going anywhere, and i am not communicating my point well, so i will bow out.

Go Pack

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 08:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 08:34

Drj820 wrote: ↑

24 Mar 2021 21:52

I just don’t consider signing an all pro level rb to a team friendly deal and keeping 3 guys we would be happy to see go as making major moves. But

Edited

That's because you are judging a GM's past 4 years of work based on a week of his decisions.

The Bucs have done basically the exact same thing as the Packers this offseason by also keeping their guys. And yes. The Packers were a better team in 2020. It's just that their players played like sh*t when it mattered.

Do I think these moves will work for 2021? No I don't. Not unless we see large jumps from our 2019 draft class and the Smiths.

Not really, I was trying to respond to the comment that we made major moves by bringing back a rb and guys we would be happy to lose. I dont consider that to be much heavy lifting.

But I recognize this conversation isn't going anywhere, and i am not communicating my point well, so i will bow out.

Go Pack

I guess not because we are clearly on different planes here.

I look at these moves heavy lifting on our resources.

Like these moves are "all in". Just because the names are familiar and were on the 2020 roster makes it look unimpressive because it isn't a new toy, but keeping these guys is a HUGE drain on our cap.

Gute's version of going all in for 21 and 22 appears to be keep the 2019/2020 roster intact as much as possible for as long as possible and hope your players don't suck in the Title Game.

I would have gone a different approach by trying to let go of players who had rough 2020 seasons but he has decided to keep them. Honestly any of the "replacements" we would have brought in by and large also had rough 2020 seasons so Gute's approach is understandable.

I'm confused what is going on here because we don't do void years often.

So is it we have a dead cap of $3 million in 22 or we can decide to smooth his dead cap out to $750k per year for 22 - 25?

So really this is closer to a 1 year just shy of $5 million deal that jumps to $6 million incentivies that is spread out over multiple years if we so choose.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 11:40

So really this is closer to a 1 year just shy of $5 million deal that jumps to $6 million incentivies that is spread out over multiple years if we so choose.

Without re-working and extending the deal, it's all just dead cap next year. No way to spread it out without a subsequent contract action.

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 11:46

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 11:40

So really this is closer to a 1 year just shy of $5 million deal that jumps to $6 million incentivies that is spread out over multiple years if we so choose.

Without re-working and extending the deal, it's all just dead cap next year. No way to spread it out without a subsequent contract action.

Got it.

So is he technically a free agent at the end of the year, or do we have to release him? Matters for comp picks I guess, particularly if he has a nice year, could be anywhere in the 4th - 6th range depending on this year.

BF004 wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 11:58

So is he technically a free agent at the end of the year, or do we have to release him? Matters for comp picks I guess, particularly if he has a nice year, could be anywhere in the 4th - 6th range depending on this year.

My guess is he is a free agent because he is not under contract at all in 2022 unless we restructure.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 12:07

BF004 wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 11:58

So is he technically a free agent at the end of the year, or do we have to release him? Matters for comp picks I guess, particularly if he has a nice year, could be anywhere in the 4th - 6th range depending on this year.

My guess is he is a free agent because he is not under contract at all in 2022 unless we restructure.

Yep, void years still equal free agent. You are not releasing him, just certain terms created a condition where the contract expires naturally. No reason it should not qualify for a comp pick if he signs elsewhere.

So....this signing was originally reported as a 1yr/$6 mil deal. I'm seeing just shy of $5 mil paid out in the breakdown. Am I missing something?

APB wrote: ↑

25 Mar 2021 14:59

So....this signing was originally reported as a 1yr/$6 mil deal. I'm seeing just shy of $5 mil paid out in the breakdown. Am I missing something?

Likely to be earned incentives push it to $6M. Playing time and play-off incentives. If he stays healthy and the Packers make the play-offs, it's $6M.

I just don't get this signing. King was inconsistent at best and an injury waiting to happen. To blow even 5 million on this guy either reeks of desperation, incompetence or lack of any kind of plan. Very disappointing to say the least.

williewasgreat wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 10:51

I just don't get this signing. King was inconsistent at best and an injury waiting to happen. To blow even 5 million on this guy either reeks of desperation, incompetence or lack of any kind of plan. Very disappointing to say the least.

I think I am starting to get more surprised by the overreaction of angst from fans on a modest 1 year contract to clearly plug a hole in hopes we can draft his replacement in a month.

It's $5 million. Honestly hopefully it ends up at $6 million. Could we have done better? I think so. But it's not a crushing deal either. Players can bounce back and have good years.

Look at Nick Perry after our 1 year contract offer to him. Look at Rodgers going from stink in 2018 and 2019 to MVP in 2020. Look at Hayward going from his last two years in GB to All pro in SD or Xavier Rhodes going from historically bad in his final MN year to pretty darned solid in Indy.

The disappointing thing is how we have thrown loot at the cornerback position for years, and we were still forced to resign King with money that could have been used to sign a DLmen or elsewhere. Josh Jackson was supposed to make resigning king unnecessary, yet at the current moment they now both take up cap space.

I am okay with the King deal because obviously our hands were tied and we had to bring him back, we have no other viable starter on the roster. Just a shame we are in this position at this time.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 12:43

The disappointing thing is how we have thrown loot at the cornerback position for years, and we were still forced to resign King with money that could have been used to sign a DLmen or elsewhere. Josh Jackson was supposed to make resigning king unnecessary, yet at the current moment they now both take up cap space.

I am okay with the King deal because obviously our hands were tied and we had to bring him back, we have no other viable starter on the roster. Just a shame we are in this position at this time.

Andy Herman's video today hits on this perfectly.

go pak go wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 13:08

Drj820 wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 12:43

The disappointing thing is how we have thrown loot at the cornerback position for years, and we were still forced to resign King with money that could have been used to sign a DLmen or elsewhere. Josh Jackson was supposed to make resigning king unnecessary, yet at the current moment they now both take up cap space.

I am okay with the King deal because obviously our hands were tied and we had to bring him back, we have no other viable starter on the roster. Just a shame we are in this position at this time.

Andy Herman's video today hits on this perfectly.

I listened to his podcast yesterday and felt he described my feelings perfectly. If the team isn’t getting better it’s getting worse. They stayed the same outside of losing Linsley and they won’t have much to rely on as far as leaps from last years draft class because the majority was drafted for depth.

So really it’s going to be last years team minus an all pro center and a crop of rookies. The Buccs are gonna be the same but they beat us twice.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 16:23

go pak go wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 13:08

Drj820 wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 12:43

The disappointing thing is how we have thrown loot at the cornerback position for years, and we were still forced to resign King with money that could have been used to sign a DLmen or elsewhere. Josh Jackson was supposed to make resigning king unnecessary, yet at the current moment they now both take up cap space.

I am okay with the King deal because obviously our hands were tied and we had to bring him back, we have no other viable starter on the roster. Just a shame we are in this position at this time.

Andy Herman's video today hits on this perfectly.

I listened to his podcast yesterday and felt he described my feelings perfectly. If the team isn’t getting better it’s getting worse. They stayed the same outside of losing Linsley and they won’t have much to rely on as far as leaps from last years draft class because the majority was drafted for depth.

So really it’s going to be last years team minus an all pro center and a crop of rookies. The Buccs are gonna be the same but they beat us twice.

Yeah I just don't see how that is surprising though. It is why last January I was so urgent on the 2020 Packers. 2020 was likely the best roster Rodgers will have as a Packer. It's just going to be hard from an offseason standpoint to get better than that and I guess I expected that going into this offseason.

Honestly I am pleasantly surprised we were able to keep Jones and at least don't have a gaping hole at CB.

But this roster is maxed out. It's maxed out more than I thought it would be. It's now up to the players to elevate and win it. They failed last year. They failed in 2019 too but the expectations weren't as high.

And the players can absolutely elevate it. I'm not worried about the Bucs. It's a whole new year. We were all worried about the 9ers last year and you can see how quickly a team can rise and fall. Right now it's about the Packers players elevating their game (Smiths, Gary, Clark and Barnes)

Why is it that the Packers won't have much to rely on from these guys?
Round 2, pick 62: AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College.
Round 3, pick 94: Josiah Deguara, TE, Cincinnati.
Round 5, pick 175: Kamal Martin, LB, Minnesota.
Round 6, pick 192: Jon Runyan, G, Michigan.
Round 6, pick 208: Jake Hanson, C, Oregon.

Or that the 2019 draft class can not improve? Or the 2018 and any other player for that matter. Utter nonsense to suggest we automatically got worse simply by losing Linsley and Linsley alone. Plenty of players are still ascending.

go pak go wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 16:40

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 16:23

go pak go wrote: ↑

29 Mar 2021 13:08

Andy Herman's video today hits on this perfectly.

I listened to his podcast yesterday and felt he described my feelings perfectly. If the team isn’t getting better it’s getting worse. They stayed the same outside of losing Linsley and they won’t have much to rely on as far as leaps from last years draft class because the majority was drafted for depth.

So really it’s going to be last years team minus an all pro center and a crop of rookies. The Buccs are gonna be the same but they beat us twice.

Yeah I just don't see how that is surprising though. It is why last January I was so urgent on the 2020 Packers. 2020 was likely the best roster Rodgers will have as a Packer. It's just going to be hard from an offseason standpoint to get better than that and I guess I expected that going into this offseason.

Honestly I am pleasantly surprised we were able to keep Jones and at least don't have a gaping hole at CB.

But this roster is maxed out. It's maxed out more than I thought it would be. It's now up to the players to elevate and win it. They failed last year. They failed in 2019 too but the expectations weren't as high.

And the players can absolutely elevate it. I'm not worried about the Bucs. It's a whole new year. We were all worried about the 9ers last year and you can see how quickly a team can rise and fall. Right now it's about the Packers players elevating their game (Smiths, Gary, Clark and Barnes)

I think TB has a better roster than us, and had a better roster than us last season, despite having a worse record. I think that they underperformed kind of like the Miami Heat did in the first year of their triumvirate.

Pettine needed to be fired, but I heard a good point the other day that where we really lost was actually Rodgers in the 2nd half. He brought us almost all the way back and our defense got us 3 turnovers and then our offense failed. TB is not one of those SF or NYG teams however, so we can actually beat them, but you're right when you say this is mostly on the players.

We can still improve though. Our 2010 roster was better in every way except RB. As good as Jaire is, I would rather have 2010 Woodson if I could only pick 1. As good as Amos is, I would rather have Collins. Would rather have Bishop and Hawk. Would certainly rather have Tramon than King, and Shields vs whoever we have been trotting out there. 2010 Matthews was better than 2020 Z, although not by a lot. Smith/Gary > Zombo, and Kenny Clark > Pickett I think. But that 2010 line overall was better too because Pickett is only slightly worse than Clark, but Cullen Jenkins was himself top 5 at the position. WRs hands down better in 2010, not even close. QB was better too since Rodgers made you respect the run (which, had he done against TB, I think likely would have made enough of a difference for us to win, certainly on that wide open lane near the end zone late when he instead threw to Davante). I would think TE is better now, but Donald Lee was incredibly underrated. I'd probably take our line now over Colledge/Spitz/Wells and the gang.

I was having this discussion the other day, but if you look at our defense on paper, we have like at least 6 guys who all can be considered in the discussion for being at the top 3 of their position depending on your criteria (Jaire, Amos, Savage, Clark, Z, Gary (assuming he takes the leap we expect although by metrics alone, he is already there)). But as I said before, despite how consistently well they grade out, how many of these guys would you take over their 2010 counterparts? Pretty much just Kenny Clark and then whoever you rank as our #2 safety vs Charlie Peprah. I think what these guys bring is consistent high performance, but we are still missing playmakers. If we get a playmaking ILB or CB then I will feel more comfortable with this D.