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Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 06 Dec 2023 17:13
by Labrev
I will just keep to myself the thing I thought of when I viewed that Tweet, it's one of "those topics" on here.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 06 Dec 2023 23:59
by Raptorman
MY_TAKE wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 14:21
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 08:56
I measure the quality of a QB on what he does when his defense gives up more than 19 points a game. Even the poorest QB has a winning percentage at that level. What happens when he HAS to score 25 points or 35 points to win? That's where the good QBs are found. I'll give you a good example. Mitch Trubiskey. 19 points and under by the defense he's 22-5. 20-25 points, he's 7-9. Purdy doesn't have enough games above 20 to have proved himself. And those that he has, not looking good.
Justin Fields is 5-5 in games under 19. His career is going to be very short
I cannot really debate this anymore. Its just too flawed to me. (your criteria to measure the quality of a QB.) Well, Look at this.
.
Week Date Opponent Result Record Game site Recap
1 September 1 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 34–3 1–0 Houlihan's Stadium Recap
2 September 9 Philadelphia Eagles W 39–13 2–0 Lambeau Field Recap
3 September 15 San Diego Chargers W 42–10 3–0 Lambeau Field Recap
4 September 22 at Minnesota Vikings L 21–30 3–1 Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome Recap
5 September 29 at Seattle Seahawks W 31–10 4–1 Kingdome Recap
6 October 6 at Chicago Bears W 37–6 5–1 Soldier Field Recap
7 October 14 San Francisco 49ers W 23–20 (OT) 6–1 Lambeau Field Recap
8 Bye
9 October 27 Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 13–7 7–1 Lambeau Field Recap
10 November 3 Detroit Lions W 28–18 8–1 Lambeau Field Recap
11 November 10 at Kansas City Chiefs L 20–27 8–2 Arrowhead Stadium Recap
12 November 18 at Dallas Cowboys L 6–21 8–3 Texas Stadium Recap
13 November 24 at St. Louis Rams W 24–9 9–3 Trans World Dome Recap
14 December 1 Chicago Bears W 28–17 10–3 Lambeau Field Recap
15 December 8 Denver Broncos W 41–6 11–3 Lambeau Field Recap
16 December 15 at Detroit Lions W 31–3 12–3 Pontiac Silverdome Recap
17 December 22 Minnesota Vikings W 38–10 13–3 Lambeau Field Recap
Postseason
Based on your brilliant criteria Brett Favre's 1996 regular season was flawed because he had a good defense and they almost never gave up more than 20 points in a game, and when they did, they lost.
Cant really measure how good Favre was because the opponent never scored more than 20 points. BTW Favre won MVP and the superbowl that year.
Let me show you something. Two QB's. Before you time. 50's and 60's. Tell me which one do you want and why?
Code: Select all
Comp Attmp Yards Y{A TD INT Wins Loss Tie
QB A 314 614 51.1% 4406 7.2 22 33 11 20 1
QB B 483 824 58.6% 6711 8.1 44 35 32 5 1
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 00:07
by BSA
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 03:22
by MY_TAKE
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense
I am going with its hard to win Superbowls unless your Tom Brady. But, I think the general consensus is that Favre and Rodgers had fairly good abilities whether their defense was good or not. I guess you just think differently. They both won multiple MVP's. I would have thought that was enough for proof of ability.
All Purdy can do is play the hand that is given to him. So far he seems to have exceeded expectations I would say. And as I said before, His coach (shanahan) chose HIM over Trey Lance who they had invested heavily into. (high 1st round pick) I'm not saying he is the greatest thing since sliced bread , but my guess is, the niners could do far worse. I think those factors say alot. He has the numbers also. I would rather have them, than not.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 04:48
by MY_TAKE
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
What happens when he HAS to score 25 points or 35 points to win? That's where the good QBs are found.
So where can we find these "good QB's"? You sort of alluded to Love being better than Purdy in your original post. He might be. However, using your logic/criteria it doesn't seem to hold water. The packers opponents total points in their wins are 20, 17, 3, 20, 22, 19. That would make LOVE super overrated right? He hasn't had to score 25-35 points to win.
If I do my math correct thats an average opponent scoring in the packers wins of16.8 points/game.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 07:17
by APB
Bears podcaster weigh in on the Love Story...
Warning: Potty mouth
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 07:54
by Acrobat
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
MY_TAKE wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 14:21
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 08:56
I measure the quality of a QB on what he does when his defense gives up more than 19 points a game. Even the poorest QB has a winning percentage at that level. What happens when he HAS to score 25 points or 35 points to win? That's where the good QBs are found. I'll give you a good example. Mitch Trubiskey. 19 points and under by the defense he's 22-5. 20-25 points, he's 7-9. Purdy doesn't have enough games above 20 to have proved himself. And those that he has, not looking good.
Justin Fields is 5-5 in games under 19. His career is going to be very short
I cannot really debate this anymore. Its just too flawed to me. (your criteria to measure the quality of a QB.) Well, Look at this.
.
Week Date Opponent Result Record Game site Recap
1 September 1 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 34–3 1–0 Houlihan's Stadium Recap
2 September 9 Philadelphia Eagles W 39–13 2–0 Lambeau Field Recap
3 September 15 San Diego Chargers W 42–10 3–0 Lambeau Field Recap
4 September 22 at Minnesota Vikings L 21–30 3–1 Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome Recap
5 September 29 at Seattle Seahawks W 31–10 4–1 Kingdome Recap
6 October 6 at Chicago Bears W 37–6 5–1 Soldier Field Recap
7 October 14 San Francisco 49ers W 23–20 (OT) 6–1 Lambeau Field Recap
8 Bye
9 October 27 Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 13–7 7–1 Lambeau Field Recap
10 November 3 Detroit Lions W 28–18 8–1 Lambeau Field Recap
11 November 10 at Kansas City Chiefs L 20–27 8–2 Arrowhead Stadium Recap
12 November 18 at Dallas Cowboys L 6–21 8–3 Texas Stadium Recap
13 November 24 at St. Louis Rams W 24–9 9–3 Trans World Dome Recap
14 December 1 Chicago Bears W 28–17 10–3 Lambeau Field Recap
15 December 8 Denver Broncos W 41–6 11–3 Lambeau Field Recap
16 December 15 at Detroit Lions W 31–3 12–3 Pontiac Silverdome Recap
17 December 22 Minnesota Vikings W 38–10 13–3 Lambeau Field Recap
Postseason
Based on your brilliant criteria Brett Favre's 1996 regular season was flawed because he had a good defense and they almost never gave up more than 20 points in a game, and when they did, they lost.
Cant really measure how good Favre was because the opponent never scored more than 20 points. BTW Favre won MVP and the superbowl that year.
Let me show you something. Two QB's. Before you time. 50's and 60's. Tell me which one do you want and why?
Code: Select all
Comp Attmp Yards Y{A TD INT Wins Loss Tie
QB A 314 614 51.1% 4406 7.2 22 33 11 20 1
QB B 483 824 58.6% 6711 8.1 44 35 32 5 1
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense.
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 09:13
by Half Empty
go pak go wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 11:40
Half Empty wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 09:27
go pak go wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 09:10
Absolutely no problem stating Love is one of, if not THE, hottest QB in the league right now based on the last few games.
To project that will continue? I certainly don't expect the same level of play we have seen the last 2 - 3 weeks. The last two - 3 weeks have been God-mode. That is really hard to keep up. Like we are at MVP level if he keeps this up the next 5 games.
I think there are two kind of fans:
1. Roller Coaster emotion and the most recent results get projected to everything moving foward (these are the fans who say "I can't see us winning another game or I can't see us lose another game)
2. The steady eddies. These fans enjoy the moment. Realize there are ups and downs and it's a long season. Wait to express ultimate judgement.
Usually these two fans don't jive very well post game.
Certainly not worth the time to look back, but I'd be willing to bet that there weren't a whole lot of steady eddies advising that we R-E-L-A-X after the close losses to inferior (certainly at the time) teams.
I would consider myself a steady eddie after the game is over. I am very emotional during the game posts.
But guys like me stated, "I don't think Jordan Love may be our long term answer but we at minimum need to give him the rest of the year"
I also know I was very much in favor of keeping Love in 2024 to at least compete aganist a top draft pick as I don't believe in throwing a rookie QB out there.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to folks who ride the roller coaster concerning the team's performance. If it's Love to whom you refer, I agree.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 09:44
by go pak go
Half Empty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 09:13
go pak go wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 11:40
Half Empty wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 09:27
Certainly not worth the time to look back, but I'd be willing to bet that there weren't a whole lot of steady eddies advising that we R-E-L-A-X after the close losses to inferior (certainly at the time) teams.
I would consider myself a steady eddie after the game is over. I am very emotional during the game posts.
But guys like me stated, "I don't think Jordan Love may be our long term answer but we at minimum need to give him the rest of the year"
I also know I was very much in favor of keeping Love in 2024 to at least compete aganist a top draft pick as I don't believe in throwing a rookie QB out there.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to folks who ride the roller coaster concerning the team's performance. If it's Love to whom you refer, I agree.
As far as team performance, I was right on the edge of throwing in the towel. Had we lost to LAC, I would have been rooting for a 2008 scenario of losing games but losing them in a good way. Certainly not on the FIRE EVERYONE train though.
Instead we snuck out the LAC game but more imporatantly we were starting to string weeks of looking competent. That gave me the hope of a Tday surprise.
And boy did we get one.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 16:15
by Raptorman
Acrobat wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 07:54
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
MY_TAKE wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 14:21
I cannot really debate this anymore. Its just too flawed to me. (your criteria to measure the quality of a QB.) Well, Look at this.
.
Week Date Opponent Result Record Game site Recap
1 September 1 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 34–3 1–0 Houlihan's Stadium Recap
2 September 9 Philadelphia Eagles W 39–13 2–0 Lambeau Field Recap
3 September 15 San Diego Chargers W 42–10 3–0 Lambeau Field Recap
4 September 22 at Minnesota Vikings L 21–30 3–1 Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome Recap
5 September 29 at Seattle Seahawks W 31–10 4–1 Kingdome Recap
6 October 6 at Chicago Bears W 37–6 5–1 Soldier Field Recap
7 October 14 San Francisco 49ers W 23–20 (OT) 6–1 Lambeau Field Recap
8 Bye
9 October 27 Tampa Bay Buccaneers W 13–7 7–1 Lambeau Field Recap
10 November 3 Detroit Lions W 28–18 8–1 Lambeau Field Recap
11 November 10 at Kansas City Chiefs L 20–27 8–2 Arrowhead Stadium Recap
12 November 18 at Dallas Cowboys L 6–21 8–3 Texas Stadium Recap
13 November 24 at St. Louis Rams W 24–9 9–3 Trans World Dome Recap
14 December 1 Chicago Bears W 28–17 10–3 Lambeau Field Recap
15 December 8 Denver Broncos W 41–6 11–3 Lambeau Field Recap
16 December 15 at Detroit Lions W 31–3 12–3 Pontiac Silverdome Recap
17 December 22 Minnesota Vikings W 38–10 13–3 Lambeau Field Recap
Postseason
Based on your brilliant criteria Brett Favre's 1996 regular season was flawed because he had a good defense and they almost never gave up more than 20 points in a game, and when they did, they lost.
Cant really measure how good Favre was because the opponent never scored more than 20 points. BTW Favre won MVP and the superbowl that year.
Let me show you something. Two QB's. Before you time. 50's and 60's. Tell me which one do you want and why?
Code: Select all
Comp Attmp Yards Y{A TD INT Wins Loss Tie
QB A 314 614 51.1% 4406 7.2 22 33 11 20 1
QB B 483 824 58.6% 6711 8.1 44 35 32 5 1
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense.
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 16:38
by BSA
BSA wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 00:07
.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 16:52
by Yoop
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Acrobat wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 07:54
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
Let me show you something. Two QB's. Before you time. 50's and 60's. Tell me which one do you want and why?
Code: Select all
Comp Attmp Yards Y{A TD INT Wins Loss Tie
QB A 314 614 51.1% 4406 7.2 22 33 11 20 1
QB B 483 824 58.6% 6711 8.1 44 35 32 5 1
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense.
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
defense wins Championships is false, and always has been,, your Vikings are a classic example, it wasn't just defense for your lost PO games, or with us either, if ya can't outscore the other team ya lose, sure defense can help make that possible, but just look at the SB winners the last 20 years, offense is what got it done for most of the winners.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 17:14
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:52
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Acrobat wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 07:54
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
defense wins Championships is false, and always has been,, your Vikings are a classic example, it wasn't just defense for your lost PO games, or with us either, if ya can't outscore the other team ya lose, sure defense can help make that possible, but just look at the SB winners the last 20 years, offense is what got it done for most of the winners.
I did a study on this about a year ago.
Both top teams on either side of the ball have won it and it's pretty even when comparing defense heavy to offense heavy. The most important indicator is usually the SB winner is top 5 in either offense or defense and the other side of the ball is usually top 10.
Finally, there is no side of the ball that is a liability (like 25th or lower)
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 17:34
by lupedafiasco
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Acrobat wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 07:54
Raptorman wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023 23:59
Let me show you something. Two QB's. Before you time. 50's and 60's. Tell me which one do you want and why?
Code: Select all
Comp Attmp Yards Y{A TD INT Wins Loss Tie
QB A 314 614 51.1% 4406 7.2 22 33 11 20 1
QB B 483 824 58.6% 6711 8.1 44 35 32 5 1
Also, if Favre was so good, why were they 8-8 three years later? Why did they never win another Super Bowl with him? Same with Rodgers. Why only one Super Bowl? IF the QB is driving the team to victory, Why didn't the Packers have 6 Super Bowls in the last 30 years? Don't get me wrong, The QB can make the difference. See Fran Tarkenton. One of the great imposters of good QBs. Only an idiot QB could screw up worse than him with that defense. He he the perfect example of a below-average QB with a good defense.
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
Typical Viking fan response when they remember they have zero. Trying to remove the saltiness from a Vikings fan is harder than removing the stench from a hunk of &%$@.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 19:35
by MY_TAKE
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
I just questioned the validity of your original Purdy statement and then you started talking a bit nonsensical. I provided a good example directly opposed to your team defensive criteria and then you went off the rails and basically started saying Favre and Rodgers and Tarkenton were crap too. I was questioning your words of overrated abilities, not really win/loss record or anything. Then you made the funny statement of having to score 25 or 35 points to win. THATS how you find a good QB. How many times do they need to do that? Is there a percentage we need to put on that? Does it count if they have probowlers on their team? I am just guessing that Favre and Rodgers probably have a few wins when they had to score a few points. I don't know, how about all the playoff wins against the cowboys or does that not count if the win is in Texas or Jerry Jones is the owner? Maybe Nick Foles is the best QB of all time. Thats the guy you need to find for your club. You would think you would have a bit more respect for Favre considering he just about got your Vikings to the dance while getting his ass handed to him by the bounty saints. Maybe your statement isn't really true.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 19:39
by MY_TAKE
I can't help myself now. Im having too much fun!!! And I am pissed the Bucks just lost
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 21:34
by Raptorman
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 17:34
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Acrobat wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 07:54
How's that trophy case looking for you, bud?
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
Typical Viking fan response when they remember they have zero. Trying to remove the saltiness from a Vikings fan is harder than removing the stench from a hunk of &%$@.
No. It's a typical arrogant Packer fan response. This thread and my post have nothing to do with my team winning squat. But when questioning the ability of QBs, this is brought up. Why? Because as a Vikings fan, I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. Because only Packer fans or fans of teams who have won the Super Bowl know anything. Arrogance. As is your post. And it's one of the reasons why many fans of other teams hate Packer fans in general. You think your &%$@ doesn't stink. Me, I don't give a crap. I grew up with Packer fans. Half my family is Packer fans.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 21:43
by Raptorman
Yoop wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:52
defense wins Championships is false,
So why did Favre and Rodgers only win the Super Bowl when they had a top Defense? Why did Starr only win when he had a top defense? Show me one time a 32-ranked team in defense won the Super Bowl. How may times did Brady win a Super Bowl without a top defense? Hint: Zero. Montana? Zero. You name any QB that has won multiple Super Bowls and they had a top defense with them. Except one. Eli Manning. Now, if what you say is true, that would make Eli the best QB ever. Because he didn't need a top Defense to win 2 Super Bowls.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 21:46
by Raptorman
Sad that no one is willing to answer my question. You just don't have the Balls I guess.
As for Love. He has things to prove. I wouldn't give up on him yet. But I wouldn't anoint him the next QBOTF in Green Bay.
Re: Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison
Posted: 07 Dec 2023 21:48
by MY_TAKE
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 21:34
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 17:34
Raptorman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2023 16:15
Wow. Like I haven’t that line before. Typical Packer fan response when they don’t want answer a question.
Typical Viking fan response when they remember they have zero. Trying to remove the saltiness from a Vikings fan is harder than removing the stench from a hunk of &%$@.
No. It's a typical arrogant Packer fan response. This thread and my post have nothing to do with my team winning squat. But when questioning the ability of QBs, this is brought up. Why? Because as a Vikings fan, I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. Because only Packer fans or fans of teams who have won the Super Bowl know anything. Arrogance. As is your post. And it's one of the reasons why many fans of other teams hate Packer fans in general. You think your &%$@ doesn't stink. Me, I don't give a crap. I grew up with Packer fans. Half my family is Packer fans.
Thats just lupedafiasco. He talks to packer fans that way too
Not sure what you expected though on a Packer forum when you start criticizing Favre and Rodgers. BTW, I did disagree with Yoop also on his take of Purdy. At least I am consistent on that.
ONe more thing. Favre's play took a down turn for a bit after losing Holmgren as a coach. That was to answer your 8-8 question after winning the superbowl..