Not sure how the coaches media availabilities have worked this week with the Thursday game and time off...has anyone asked Lafleur or Drayton about what instructions were given to Hill during the kickoff Return?
I will list what I am hoping to learn and then the corresponding consequence of the information received:
1) Hill was commanded to not take the ball out of the endzone if he finds himself 5 yards deep in the end zone catching the ball. (In this case, I would not fire Drayton while he is at the podium. I would just say Hill paid a horrific price for doing something dumb)
2) Hill was given the option to do what he thought was best, even if ball is kicked 5 yards deep into the endzone. (Drayton must be forced to resign. He can do it on his own time throughout the week, and no need to embarrass the guy)
3) Hill was told to return the kick no matter what. (Lafleur, Murphy, or Gute, should walk out to the podium as soon as Drayton answers the question and ask Drayton to remove all Packers gear, hand him a poncho to where while exiting the stage, and Drayton should be removed from building by police escort immediately. Fired)
Really hope we get some clarity on how this play went down. A tremendous punter provided by Gutey should not be enough to forgive some of the things we are witnessing.
I'm still really confused how this comes down on a ST coach aside from the things BESIDES this that we've witnessed.
Like, most returners have some discretion. Hill made a bad read--he doesn't usually. He hasn't had a bunch of "whoops, took it out and got tackled at the 15" incidents this year. Hill ran directly into a coverage guy at the 10 yard line. That's clearly not what the coaches want. The STs have had their major struggles this year, but this play has absolutely zero bearing on my evaluation of Mo Drayton. We're at the point now where we're taking routine things and making them momentous monstrosities because we're all wounded and scarred from previous mistakes.
If you take out the cumulative impact of mistakes and just look at this one terrible kickoff return, I'm not sure why you'd be mad at a coach. Kylin Hill made a bad decision, someone missed their block, and Hill made shockingly little effort to avoid the dude running straight at him. But we don't fire the WRs coach when Amari Rodgers runs the wrong route in the red zone, ya know?
If you have an electric vet back there, you give him some discretion when the ball is caught 6 yards deep in the end zone.
When you have an unproven rookie back there, you command him to not take the ball out if he is more than two steps deep into the end zone.
He needs to be relieved of his duties.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
If you have an electric vet back there, you give him some discretion when the ball is caught 6 yards deep in the end zone.
When you have an unproven rookie back there, you command him to not take the ball out if he is more than two steps deep into the end zone.
He needs to be relieved of his duties.
There is a case for Mo's dismissal. It has nothing to do with Kylin Hill trying to return a kickoff and getting hurt.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
Posted: 01 Nov 2021 16:38
by bud fox
Special Teams got a turnover - that is enough for me any game.
These kick returners also can't help themselves - it is like an itch when getting the ball deep. Cardinals returner drops punt and then has terrible return next play from deep in endzone.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
If you have an electric vet back there, you give him some discretion when the ball is caught 6 yards deep in the end zone.
When you have an unproven rookie back there, you command him to not take the ball out if he is more than two steps deep into the end zone.
He needs to be relieved of his duties.
There is a case for Mo's dismissal. It has nothing to do with Kylin Hill trying to return a kickoff and getting hurt.
You think Kylin should have been given the freedom to do what he wants on a ball kicked 6 yards deep in the end zone? I think the rookie should have been instructed to not bring the ball out, because it would have taken a GREAT return just to get to the 25.
If the decision was left totally up to him, i believe that is a problem.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
If you have an electric vet back there, you give him some discretion when the ball is caught 6 yards deep in the end zone.
When you have an unproven rookie back there, you command him to not take the ball out if he is more than two steps deep into the end zone.
He needs to be relieved of his duties.
There is a case for Mo's dismissal. It has nothing to do with Kylin Hill trying to return a kickoff and getting hurt.
You think Kylin should have been given the freedom to do what he wants on a ball kicked 6 yards deep in the end zone? I think the rookie should have been instructed to not bring the ball out, because it would have taken a GREAT return just to get to the 25.
If the decision was left totally up to him, i believe that is a problem.
Agree. But we don't know if he was instructed to or not. He is what, 22 or 23? It is entirely possible he did his own thing.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
There is a case for Mo's dismissal. It has nothing to do with Kylin Hill trying to return a kickoff and getting hurt.
You think Kylin should have been given the freedom to do what he wants on a ball kicked 6 yards deep in the end zone? I think the rookie should have been instructed to not bring the ball out, because it would have taken a GREAT return just to get to the 25.
If the decision was left totally up to him, i believe that is a problem.
Agree. But we don't know if he was instructed to or not. He is what, 22 or 23? It is entirely possible he did his own thing.
It’s happened far too often over the past decade to blame the players. We are in week 8. If you do not have drilled into your players by now what you want them to do you aren’t doing a good job coaching.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
Posted: 02 Nov 2021 06:53
by go pak go
Have we ever had a good STs Coordinator?
Seems to me it don't matter who is doing it. They all suck and have all sucked for forever. Whether it's internal, external, hire etc.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
Posted: 02 Nov 2021 11:13
by go pak go
Andy Herman's Top Defensive Grades:
1. Rasul Douglas - The dude is so, so good at triggering and breaking up WR and RB screens. He is more than a CB which is why I want to see him on the field when Jaw comes back. Let him be an enforcer who can also cover.
2. Whitney Mercilus - I was surprised by this and not surprised. He has played well and I think he had 7 pressures?!
3. Kenny Clark - I still don't know why he didn't help tackle Edmunds in the EZ for a safety. Whether that was on him or the Olineman just held him.
Andy Herman's Bottom Defensive Grades:
1. Krys Barnes - I said it that night. He had a rough game. Honestly has had a few rough games now.
2. Erik Stokes - Sounds like the negative grade is basically from the 1 play.
3. Rashan Gary - Less disciplined in the 2nd half.
Overall, my take is the only one who really had any negative grade is Barnes and even that was likely limited. Which means the defense just had a really good day.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
1. Rasul Douglas - The dude is so, so good at triggering and breaking up WR and RB screens. He is more than a CB which is why I want to see him on the field when Jaw comes back. Let him be an enforcer who can also cover.
2. Whitney Mercilus - I was surprised by this and not surprised. He has played well and I think he had 7 pressures?!
3. Kenny Clark - I still don't know why he didn't help tackle Edmunds in the EZ for a safety. Whether that was on him or the Olineman just held him.
Andy Herman's Bottom Defensive Grades:
1. Krys Barnes - I said it that night. He had a rough game. Honestly has had a few rough games now.
2. Erik Stokes - Sounds like the negative grade is basically from the 1 play.
3. Rashan Gary - Less disciplined in the 2nd half.
Overall, my take is the only one who really had any negative grade is Barnes and even that was likely limited. Which means the defense just had a really good day.
Im surprised kenny graded in the top 3. I thought he had a pretty poor game overall. Everytime i saw him on the screen he was on the ground, and his matchup was against a third string center.
I also thought Gary played poor. Hardly saw him make an impact at all after the 1st quarter. I felt his inability to generate any pressure, along with Clark being on the ground...was why the Cards were able to look like a quality offense in the second half.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
If you have an electric vet back there, you give him some discretion when the ball is caught 6 yards deep in the end zone.
When you have an unproven rookie back there, you command him to not take the ball out if he is more than two steps deep into the end zone.
He needs to be relieved of his duties.
There is a case for Mo's dismissal. It has nothing to do with Kylin Hill trying to return a kickoff and getting hurt.
last time we had a quality special teams coach was over 20 years ago in the Holmgren era
the chance of Hill or any Kick returner to break a big return seems so remote with the ST's units we've had lately that it hardly seems wise to try, just let it go and start at the 25, plus when ya add in the danger of injury's as what happened to Hill the cost hardly equals the reward.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
Posted: 03 Nov 2021 14:28
by NCF
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
I'm glad he stepped up a little for a very worthy game. Too much going on to stick with the copy and paste lull we'd settled into. Well done, guy on twitter. Thanks for entertaining me to an acceptable degree in your free time for no compensation.
Re: Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals - Thursday 7:20 PM CST
Posted: 06 Nov 2021 05:58
by go pak go
Andy Herman Highest Rated Players Offense:
1. AJ Dillon
2. Randal Cobb
3. Big Dog
Andy Herman Lowest Rated Players Offense:
1. Juwann Winfree - easily lowest graded player in the game
2. Josiah Deguara
3. John Runyan
