Packers Huddle

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

This is actually an incredibly easy question to answer if you watch the actual game rather than just oggle stats all day. It's because Favre and Rodgers were Choke Artists. Brady OTOH rarely choked.

All three of them at some points in their career fell victim to some of their teams just not being good enough. But when their teams were good enough, Brady usually did not screw it up with poor play in critical moments nearly as much as the other two did. He does have a few choke jobs to his name, but way fewer of them than BrINT or Errant.

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 14:12

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

This is actually an incredibly easy question to answer if you watch the actual game rather than just oggle stats all day. It's because Favre and Rodgers were Choke Artists. Brady OTOH rarely choked.

All three of them at some points in their career fell victim to some of their teams just not being good enough. But when their teams were good enough, Brady usually did not screw it up with poor play in critical moments nearly as much as the other two did. He does have a few choke jobs to his name, but way fewer of them than BrINT or Errant.

Yeah I like to sum it up to bit of everything.

Defense.
Luck.
Talent / rising to the moment

Brady had all of them in spades. Boggles my mind how much things just worked out for him or he made things work out when it looked impossible.

Belichick did it right, Brady always had a pretty good OL, good enough to support quality run blocking and pass pro, always had quality go to targets in Gronk and his slot receivers, and Belichick and his OC instilled in Brady to take what the defense gave him, couple with a ton of mis direction plays Brady and that offense where hard to defend

at times both AR and Favre had quality OL and skill position players, just not as consistent year after year, plus imo the coaching either.

Ron Wolfs words to remember, his one regret was not supplying Favre with enough quality receivers, and it became the same with Ted and Guty, doesn't matter how good or fancy the gun is, minus bullets it's no better then a paper weight

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 14:12

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

This is actually an incredibly easy question to answer if you watch the actual game rather than just oggle stats all day. It's because Favre and Rodgers were Choke Artists. Brady OTOH rarely choked.

All three of them at some points in their career fell victim to some of their teams just not being good enough. But when their teams were good enough, Brady usually did not screw it up with poor play in critical moments nearly as much as the other two did. He does have a few choke jobs to his name, but way fewer of them than BrINT or Errant.

And yet, every QB to win more than one Super Bowl, save one, did it with good defenses. Imagine that. But if it isn't the defense that means that Eli Manning is and was a better QB than both Favre and Rodgers. You can't claim it's the QBs and then not give Eil his due.

Raptorman wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 15:14

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 14:12

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

This is actually an incredibly easy question to answer if you watch the actual game rather than just oggle stats all day. It's because Favre and Rodgers were Choke Artists. Brady OTOH rarely choked.

All three of them at some points in their career fell victim to some of their teams just not being good enough. But when their teams were good enough, Brady usually did not screw it up with poor play in critical moments nearly as much as the other two did. He does have a few choke jobs to his name, but way fewer of them than BrINT or Errant.

And yet, every QB to win more than one Super Bowl, save one, did it with good defenses. Imagine that. But if it isn't the defense that means that Eli Manning is and was a better QB than both Favre and Rodgers. You can't claim it's the QBs and then not give Eil his due.

I mean whenever you deal with single elimination playoffs...you have to include some randomness in your data set.

Eli Manning is the perfect picture of random working in his favor. It's not wise to rely on a helmet catch for a SB ring. But damnit it worked for Eli.

go pak go wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 15:26

Eli Manning is the perfect picture of random working in his favor. It's not wise to rely on a helmet catch for a SB ring. But damnit it worked for Eli.

Yup. That was random, 2 and 3 on the New England 5 yard line. Had he dropped it they could have run it in, or gained 3 yards for another 1st down.

What helped Eli is wait for it...............his defense. In the playoffs, they only allowed 15.1 ppg in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Um.........

But lets focus on a random catch on a 2nd 3 at the 5 yard line.

I didn't say "it's the QB." I was arguing against this historical revisionism that Brady is just any good QB but had better teams around him.

No, Brady was an exceptional QB. His teams helped him a lot, but he returned the favor, and then some.

The only persuasive argument I've heard that Brady had an easier go of things than other QBs is the division he played in. Jets, Fish, and Bills were weak teams for the vast majority of his career. So they won the division, guaranteed playoff berth, and often they would get a pretty high seed. So he got a lot of trips, and often times the playoff conditions were very favorable.

But it's not like Manning had lots of great rivals in the Titans, Jags, and Texans holding him back. A lot of his teams were also pretty strong. Yet he has 2 rings, to Brady's 7. That five ring difference is more than just his teams.

Raptor comes to this forum and drums up this same conversation twice a year. Usually once in the off-season and once in season. It’s strange and he doesn’t gain anybody on his side, but he’s persistent. Gotta give him some credit for that.

Imagine a world where we could agree that Defense wins championships but doesn't diminish the feat of the QB who won.

Superbowls are an overrated stat for a qb but a good stat for a team.

Not like our division has been a "murderer's row", but from 2001-2019 Brady played the AFC East for 6 games a year. Of the teams in that Division, name 1 team in Brady's era, for 1 season, that was memorable?

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 14:12

So explain to us why the great Favre and Rodgers only have one Super Bowl. After all, if they are the great QBs that Packer fans have been bragging about the last 20 years they should have at least more than one each. Why did they only win with a top defense?

This is actually an incredibly easy question to answer if you watch the actual game rather than just oggle stats all day. It's because Favre and Rodgers were Choke Artists. Brady OTOH rarely choked.

All three of them at some points in their career fell victim to some of their teams just not being good enough. But when their teams were good enough, Brady usually did not screw it up with poor play in critical moments nearly as much as the other two did. He does have a few choke jobs to his name, but way fewer of them than BrINT or Errant.

This is accurate. What makes Brady the best QB of all time is not that he was the most physically talented (he wasn't). It is that he never shrank in the clutch moments. He is the only QB I have ever seen that was pretty much automatic in every single high-pressure moment. If the Patriots had any kind of chance late in the game, he would always make the right reads and make accurate throws. It was unbelievable to watch.

It was his methodical approach to the game, combined with the fact that he was humble enough to understand his place within a system and not think he was above it, that made him the GOAT.

Raptorman wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 15:50

go pak go wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 15:26

Eli Manning is the perfect picture of random working in his favor. It's not wise to rely on a helmet catch for a SB ring. But damnit it worked for Eli.

Yup. That was random, 2 and 3 on the New England 5 yard line. Had he dropped it they could have run it in, or gained 3 yards for another 1st down.

What helped Eli is wait for it...............his defense. In the playoffs, they only allowed 15.1 ppg in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Um.........

But lets focus on a random catch on a 2nd 3 at the 5 yard line.

It was 3rd and 5 on the Giants 44 yardline with like a minute to go and Eli got "should have sacked" like 2 to 3 times only to somehow escape and throw the ball 30 yards down field for a massive completion to move the chains and get it near the redzone before he threw it to Burgess to seal it.



If that randomness didn't happen then Eli probably doesn't have his first ring. Yeah. It was a freaky play.

Some players seem to always get lucky, some seem to never get lucky.

I think you make your own luck.

flapackfan wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 17:07

Not like our division has been a "murderer's row", but from 2001-2019 Brady played the AFC East for 6 games a year. Of the teams in that Division, name 1 team in Brady's era, for 1 season, that was memorable?

2008 Dolphins.

flapackfan wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 17:07

Not like our division has been a "murderer's row", but from 2001-2019 Brady played the AFC East for 6 games a year. Of the teams in that Division, name 1 team in Brady's era, for 1 season, that was memorable?

I remember a time when people liked to blame the NFC North because our division was so easy and it therefore didn't prepare us for playoff games.

You can have a lot of "reasons" to explain anything really

Brady's 3 best invidual seasons didn't lead to a SB.

It's a team game.

Raptorman wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 18:39

flapackfan wrote: ↑

21 Dec 2023 17:07

Not like our division has been a "murderer's row", but from 2001-2019 Brady played the AFC East for 6 games a year. Of the teams in that Division, name 1 team in Brady's era, for 1 season, that was memorable?

2008 Dolphins.

I always thought highly of Chad Pennington (when he was healthy). I think he could have fared much better had he played in today's NFL. Keeping in line with the subject of the thread, I see very few, if any, commonalities between Jordan Love and Chad Pennington (not an insult to Love, they are just completely different styles of player).

Sometimes the reason why the other teams in your division don't have very good records is because the best team beats those teams.

New England was so good that the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills usually could count on 2 losses per year.