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Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 14 Jun 2023 11:50
by Scott4Pack
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Jun 2023 19:02
I keep hearing a lot about how LVN can play inside and outside and how that means he can be deployed similarly to how Gary has been (even though different styles of play) and Z before that.
And I get that is very beneficial long term. But am I the only one who wants to see him really focus on EDGE for his first year, be more of the pass rusher that comes in on the outside when Gary (or Preston, who can do this, too, but does so less often) slides inside?
I just don't think the best thing for a learning development is to ask them to do too much, especially when his edge technique needs so much refinement/variation.
Have I mentioned this before? I've thought it before, but typing it feels familiar.
I think LVN will progress through the season. He will get more snaps at Edge with Gary being weaned back onto the field. But by mid October or so, as Gary plays more snaps, LVN will be a great option on the inside. And I’m hoping that he will be up to that.
Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 15 Jun 2023 08:51
by Yoop
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑14 Jun 2023 11:50
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Jun 2023 19:02
I keep hearing a lot about how LVN can play inside and outside and how that means he can be deployed similarly to how Gary has been (even though different styles of play) and Z before that.
And I get that is very beneficial long term. But am I the only one who wants to see him really focus on EDGE for his first year, be more of the pass rusher that comes in on the outside when Gary (or Preston, who can do this, too, but does so less often) slides inside?
I just don't think the best thing for a learning development is to ask them to do too much, especially when his edge technique needs so much refinement/variation.
Have I mentioned this before? I've thought it before, but typing it feels familiar.
I think LVN will progress through the season. He will get more snaps at Edge with Gary being weaned back onto the field. But by mid October or so, as Gary plays more snaps, LVN will be a great option on the inside. And I’m hoping that he will be up to that.
thing is the inside is harder then the outside, I think once Gary is back and if doing well LVN will take snaps from Preston Smith, imo LVN is Smiths replacement, Preston hopefully plays well so we can trade him after this season or next, at least thats what I expect will happen.
Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 15 Jun 2023 09:47
by salmar80
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Jun 2023 08:51
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑14 Jun 2023 11:50
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Jun 2023 19:02
I keep hearing a lot about how LVN can play inside and outside and how that means he can be deployed similarly to how Gary has been (even though different styles of play) and Z before that.
And I get that is very beneficial long term. But am I the only one who wants to see him really focus on EDGE for his first year, be more of the pass rusher that comes in on the outside when Gary (or Preston, who can do this, too, but does so less often) slides inside?
I just don't think the best thing for a learning development is to ask them to do too much, especially when his edge technique needs so much refinement/variation.
Have I mentioned this before? I've thought it before, but typing it feels familiar.
I think LVN will progress through the season. He will get more snaps at Edge with Gary being weaned back onto the field. But by mid October or so, as Gary plays more snaps, LVN will be a great option on the inside. And I’m hoping that he will be up to that.
thing is the inside is harder then the outside, I think once Gary is back and if doing well LVN will take snaps from Preston Smith, imo LVN is Smiths replacement, Preston hopefully plays well so we can trade him after this season or next, at least thats what I expect will happen.
While I do agree that one shouldn't put too much on a rookie's plate, training big edges to have versatility to occasionally rush inside is a real good idea. Not only is it protection in case our rushing DL get injured, but sometimes enables to take an advantage of mismatches on obvious passing downs.
Trading Preston is a possibility, but I really, really want to be 3 deep at OLB. It's not only a premium position, but it's kinda like WR in that you can't have just one or the opponent gets a big advantage. If you only have 2 starter quality edges and one gets injured, ALL the double teams, chips and other help will be used to stifle your only quality rusher.
Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 15 Jun 2023 09:58
by Labrev
I actually haven't seen us use Gary inside like we did Z, which has been a complaint of mine because I think he could look really good in that role and why I wanted him that year in the draft (I didn't see him as 'just' an EDGE but also an occasional DL).
I agree I would like to see Gary used there more while having LVN focus on EDGE for now, but I just want us to do more with Gary anyway.
Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 15 Jun 2023 10:51
by Yoop
salmar80 wrote: ↑15 Jun 2023 09:47
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Jun 2023 08:51
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑14 Jun 2023 11:50
I think LVN will progress through the season. He will get more snaps at Edge with Gary being weaned back onto the field. But by mid October or so, as Gary plays more snaps, LVN will be a great option on the inside. And I’m hoping that he will be up to that.
thing is the inside is harder then the outside, I think once Gary is back and if doing well LVN will take snaps from Preston Smith, imo LVN is Smiths replacement, Preston hopefully plays well so we can trade him after this season or next, at least thats what I expect will happen.
While I do agree that one shouldn't put too much on a rookie's plate, training big edges to have versatility to occasionally rush inside is a real good idea. Not only is it protection in case our rushing DL get injured, but sometimes enables to take an advantage of mismatches on obvious passing downs.
Trading Preston is a possibility, but I really, really want to be 3 deep at OLB. It's not only a premium position, but it's kinda like WR in that you can't have just one or the opponent gets a big advantage. If you only have 2 starter quality edges and one gets injured, ALL the double teams, chips and other help will be used to stifle your only quality rusher.
thing is Salmar Smith is due 17 mil in 2024 and we will not pay that, plus Gary who wants at minimum 23 mil, it comes down to a matter of money at the position, sure we may be able renegotiate Smiths contract, but we didn't just draft 3 possible replacements for him to do that.
also probably the worst thing for a Rookie is putting to much on there plate, in fact coaches limit the amount of learning a rookie has to comprehend purposely and allow them to just play with instinct, for that reason I said what I did, I have my doubts we'll see LVN inside
there also is a protection issue, outside is safer for LVN.
Re: Round 1 Pick 13 - Lukas Van Ness
Posted: 15 Jun 2023 11:12
by YoHoChecko
Yeah, just to be clear, LVN should eventually move around; that is his role. But I see him as raw, and rather than see him slightly improving at a lot of things, I want to focus his improvement on the edge.
Part of this is also because we drafted two DL whose best early role, before they learn their versatility, is inside pass rushers.
I know we revamped the DL in a way that has all sorts of fun versatility and combinations down the line, but we're also relying heavily on 3 rookies and a 2nd-year player to develop into the bulk of that line. And that's going to take time. In the short term, I want them to focus on certain skills and packages to maximize what they do best.