From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
I do find it interesting how people are super eager to call Week 1's performance vs the Saints a "preseason game that doesn't count" and given a pass but not wanting to give Love the same treatment.
there Rodgers worshipers
I hate that term because apparrently I am an Aaron Rodgers hater which is ridiculous.
I just want to be objective. I am all for saying Love had a bad game. Because he did. But I also think we need to include that the coaching staff and Oline let Jordan Love down a lot. They didn't help him.
I also want to say it was his first start and this therefore has no bearing on future results and no decision should be made based on this one game.
I do see a lot of bias in this thread and I would like us to get away from that.
Like even yoop, I am agreeing with a lot more of what you're saying lately, but that shouldn't be because it is rooted in a vaccination shot. It should be rooted in playing data and general observations.
lighten up Nancy, that was meant as a joke other wise I wouldn't have added the laughing amojo, remember You considered me a Rodgers worshiper, he ruined that, not me.
Rodgers is a self centered jerk, we need him to win a SB, thats all I care about concerning him.
There were failures at every level, from coaching to line execution to QB play, and none of them individually would have likely resulted in a loss. However, you combine them all and it's a disaster.
My push in criticizing Love was in response to what seemed a willingness by many here to forgive/dismiss his poor play based on those other two failures. The #itwasntjordansfault gang was quick to point out how MLF and the O-Line made it impossible for Love hence let's look past his egregiously poor performance and point the fingers elsewhere.
It doesn't work that way for me.
The QB position is the most important position. You entrust the position to players you feel can overcome some of those failures and still be consistently successful. Yoop went on-and-on for years on this forum over just that point with Rodgers. To put it simply, had Love executed some of those plays better, he would have forced the KC defense out of the very blitz calls that were giving him so much trouble. That, in turn, would have negated the pressure looks Newman and Patrick struggled with and allowed MLF to call a more balanced game. Once KC saw Love couldn't function worth a damn under pressure, it was all over for the offense.
Yeah, there was fault all around (on offense and yes, ST) for this loss. Speaking specifically to the offense, I don't think any one of them - coaching/game plan, O-Line, Love - was solely responsible but only one of them (Love) could have made it work despite the others with a better performance. There's definitely a chicken-and-the-egg argument you can make here but, in my eyes, Love could've been the difference maker, he just wasn't up to it.
Favre - you could tell he was special right away.
...
The Falcons (or Jerry Glanville more specifically) didn't see anything special.
I'm still trying to figure out who thought our Special Teams coach was "special" when they wrote the job offer. It's a shame #10's debut was marred by such blatant ineptitude.
Those run/pass breakdown numbers are a bit misleading. The offense was behind schedule on many of their drives/down sequences hence requiring more pass calls. They were also facing 9+ defenders in the box that prompted Love to switch to a pass call. Hell, that happened on the first offensive play. Then being down two scores late in the game also required pass calls.
Yeah, I too wish they’d have run more but the run/pass mix wasn’t that one-sided and circumstances justify why more passes were called.
will you just stop this nonsense, just because you see 9 guys at the los pre snap doesn't mean they rushed all 9, which they only did several times, they found the weak spot (B gap) blew Newman and Patrick open and brought a free rusher, sometimes two and that created 28 pass pressures, both where the lowest graded offensive players, they where better at run blocking, but not much
once Lafluer switched to more RO there defense had to play more honest and respect those short second level zones and Love had more time to throw, problem is Lafluer didn't start doing that till the 4th quarter, Lafluers game plan sucked from the start, he admited that, yet some here don't believe him, go rewatch the game.
There were failures at every level, from coaching to line execution to QB play, and none of them individually would have likely resulted in a loss. However, you combine them all and it's a disaster.
My push in criticizing Love was in response to what seemed a willingness by many here to forgive/dismiss his poor play based on those other two failures. The #itwasntjordansfault gang was quick to point out how MLF and the O-Line made it impossible for Love hence let's look past his egregiously poor performance and point the fingers elsewhere.
It doesn't work that way for me.
The QB position is the most important position. You entrust the position to players you feel can overcome some of those failures and still be consistently successful. Yoop went on-and-on for years on this forum over just that point with Rodgers. To put it simply, had Love executed some of those plays better, he would have forced the KC defense out of the very blitz calls that were giving him so much trouble. That, in turn, would have negated the pressure looks Newman and Patrick struggled with and allowed MLF to call a more balanced game. Once KC saw Love couldn't function worth a damn under pressure, it was all over for the offense.
Yeah, there was fault all around (on offense and yes, ST) for this loss. Speaking specifically to the offense, I don't think any one of them - coaching/game plan, O-Line, Love - was solely responsible but only one of them (Love) could have made it work despite the others with a better performance. There's definitely a chicken-and-the-egg argument you can make here but, in my eyes, Love could've been the difference maker, he just wasn't up to it.
I totally agree with you that Love was bad. Pundits and individual clips of decent throws and decisions will not alter my opinion of what I watch unfold over the course of the game. Love was in over his head, inaccurate, and rattled. All things that are on him.
My only point when I said I put the blame squarely on Lafleur is that when you take ANY debut starter on the road in a loud environment, give them a poor OL, back them up to start multiple drives near their own goalline, force them to throw more than they hand the ball off, ask them to run plays similar to what the starter runs (and not a set 6 or 7 the rookie has mastered and just pound them), ask the debut starter to turn his back to a blitzing defense, and ask him to take majority 5-7 step drops in a game where the OL cant protect......
My point is just that I believe what we saw from Love is what we would see from 90% of debut starters in a situation like that, and I now think that because Love played how I think most would, that it doesnt mean TO ME that he is a lost cause.
During the game i was feeling like this game meant Rodgers gained all the leverage, I still think he gained alot...but I dont think the game would have turned out much different for many debut starters on planet earth given the OL, coaching decisions, field position, and STs in the game.
I still don't get the whole "Rodgers gained leverage thing"
If it's championships Rodgers wants....he didn't gain any leverage. Sure he will be a Packer. But will be an 11-6 Packer without either his favorite WR or a completely gutted defense.
I still don't get the whole "Rodgers gained leverage thing"
If it's championships Rodgers wants....he didn't gain any leverage. Sure he will be a Packer. But will be an 11-6 Packer without either his favorite WR or a completely gutted defense.
Proabably for a different thread but hes gotten to NFCCGs without a defense or WRs before. The point of the leverage talk is that in one scenario it is Rodgers pushing himself out of GB demanding he go to another team, and the other scenario is the ORG being done with him, ready to move on to Love, and the org pushing him out the door.
Love looking god awful theoretically helps prevents the org from being the one to insist he be given his walking papers.
There were failures at every level, from coaching to line execution to QB play, and none of them individually would have likely resulted in a loss. However, you combine them all and it's a disaster.
My push in criticizing Love was in response to what seemed a willingness by many here to forgive/dismiss his poor play based on those other two failures. The #itwasntjordansfault gang was quick to point out how MLF and the O-Line made it impossible for Love hence let's look past his egregiously poor performance and point the fingers elsewhere.
It doesn't work that way for me.
The QB position is the most important position. You entrust the position to players you feel can overcome some of those failures and still be consistently successful. Yoop went on-and-on for years on this forum over just that point with Rodgers. To put it simply, had Love executed some of those plays better, he would have forced the KC defense out of the very blitz calls that were giving him so much trouble. That, in turn, would have negated the pressure looks Newman and Patrick struggled with and allowed MLF to call a more balanced game. Once KC saw Love couldn't function worth a damn under pressure, it was all over for the offense.
Yeah, there was fault all around (on offense and yes, ST) for this loss. Speaking specifically to the offense, I don't think any one of them - coaching/game plan, O-Line, Love - was solely responsible but only one of them (Love) could have made it work despite the others with a better performance. There's definitely a chicken-and-the-egg argument you can make here but, in my eyes, Love could've been the difference maker, he just wasn't up to it.
The #itwasntjordansfault gang responded to the Jordan sucked gang, and this idea that Rodgers or actually any other QB would have beaten the KC blitz packages is shown to be false practically every week, we seen Rodgers any every other top QB fail trying, KC brought extra heat and clogged up the short passing lanes, the heat forced Love to get rid of the ball under extreme pressure, and most of the time he had no one to throw the ball to.
agreed, Love is not ready to win a SB, but he'd have been a lot better then he showed Sunday if Lafluer had used more Play and RO option, or simply ran the ball more.
I didn't need ( although I enjoyed both Sullivan and Hermans explanations) and you didn't either to see that Love was under duress for almost the whole game, and faced tight coverage to throw into for most of the game as well.
this will give Love plenty of film to study, and Lafluer as well, both should learn a lot from this.
The #itwasntjordansfault gang responded to the Jordan sucked gang, and this idea that Rodgers or actually any other QB would have beaten the KC blitz packages is shown to be false practically every week, we seen Rodgers any every other top QB fail trying, KC brought extra heat and clogged up the short passing lanes, the heat forced Love to get rid of the ball under extreme pressure, and most of the time he had no one to throw the ball to.
agreed, Love is not ready to win a SB, but he'd have been a lot better then he showed Sunday if Lafluer had used more Play and RO option, or simply ran the ball more.
I didn't need ( although I enjoyed both Sullivan and Hermans explanations) and you didn't either to see that Love was under duress for almost the whole game, and faced tight coverage to throw into for most of the game as well.
this will give Love plenty of film to study, and Lafluer as well, both should learn a lot from this.
Well gee whiz.
I wonder, then, why hasn’t KC been employing this unbeatable defensive strategy all season? Why has their defense been exploited week-after-week when all they needed to do was send 0 cover blitzes all day long? If “Rodgers or actually any other QB” could not have beaten the KC defense, what the heck has Spagnola been doing all season long?!? Is he that dumb?
What I just don't understand is how our Oline was so bad?
Like did they just have an epic fail game or was it the QB not getting the right protection calls?
I mean this Oline...this Oline is likely got a player in the wrong spot everywhere except RT. So maybe that has a lot to do with it plus Love not making the right calls.
But man. I have just never seen the Oline completely be a revolving door THAT much in a game. Right Side. Left Side. Up the middle. Literally all of them sucked. The amount of plays where they got to Love in under 2.5 seconds was astounding.
I suspect that our OL is not used to being blitzed 6-7 on practically every single dropback.
The #itwasntjordansfault gang responded to the Jordan sucked gang, and this idea that Rodgers or actually any other QB would have beaten the KC blitz packages is shown to be false practically every week, we seen Rodgers any every other top QB fail trying, KC brought extra heat and clogged up the short passing lanes, the heat forced Love to get rid of the ball under extreme pressure, and most of the time he had no one to throw the ball to.
agreed, Love is not ready to win a SB, but he'd have been a lot better then he showed Sunday if Lafluer had used more Play and RO option, or simply ran the ball more.
I didn't need ( although I enjoyed both Sullivan and Hermans explanations) and you didn't either to see that Love was under duress for almost the whole game, and faced tight coverage to throw into for most of the game as well.
this will give Love plenty of film to study, and Lafluer as well, both should learn a lot from this.
Well gee whiz.
I wonder, then, why hasn’t KC been employing this unbeatable defensive strategy all season? Why has their defense been exploited week-after-week when all they needed to do was send 0 cover blitzes all day long? If “Rodgers or actually any other QB” could not have beaten the KC defense, what the heck has Spagnola been doing all season long?!? Is he that dumb?
Or….perhaps…
who knows, I'am not going to try and figure out why Spags doesn't use more blitz packages, obviously a better QB might make him pay, no one here has said that Love is the second coming of Rodgers, all I/where saying is that you and some others here are being unreasonable to expect much better under the circumstances Love was put in, Lafluer used 10 ( TEN ) RO plays, and most in the 4th qrt, and those are the plays Love did best in.
still you act disengenious to the FACT that very good QB's crumble under severe rushing attacks every week, we've witnessed the great Aaron Rodgers fold under that type of Pass rush, yet you expect a young guy like Love with his first NFL start to be better, you need some patience, and acceptance that for as bad as Love was in your eye, our coach didn't do much better.
Lets get 1 thing straight. The Packers can't keep Rodgers long term. The man will be 38 years old next month. He is already past the age when most QB's are in serious decline or have already retired. Only Brady has been effective after 37 years old. What good is having generational wealth if he does not have kids and grandkids to give it to - and that appears to be his priority now. If Rodgers is forced to choose between getting vaccinated every 3 months (as is in all our futures) and having a healthy child, he is going to retire.
And then there is the $46 million the Packers have to pay next year if they keep Rodgers. They can't force him to restructure, and they can't keep Adams and 2 more high salaried starter, probably Z and Tonyan if they keep Rodgers. Probably can't keep Preston and resign Alexander either.
The most that any team can hope for is 2 good years from Rodgers after this season. Odds are not even 2. Please explain to me, those of you that are considering whether Love should be traded, who will start in September 2023. Benkert? Bortles or someone like him? Or a QB who will be 40 in a few months and costs $40 million + in cap?
Like it or not Love is the Packers QB next season. And if the Packers go 8-9 next season with Love, that is a damn sight better than going 2-15 for the next 3-5 years starting in 2023. As those of us who were Packers fans in the 1980's can remember all too well.
Nice thing with Love is there is no reason to give him 2 seasons. If he bombs it his first season starting, team should immediately think another high pick at QB. No need to string it along a few years.
I see zero chance Rodgers is still with the Packers next year.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It was rosier than I would have made it out to be.
What I am really trying to figure out is who is a part of this supposed itwasnotjordansfault gang.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It was rosier than I would have made it out to be.
What I am really trying to figure out is who is a part of this supposed itwasnotjordansfault gang.
I'am, and I agree with this USA today article that says Lafluer should have used more uptempo quick passing versus the deeper routes and designed better pass protection, tight coverage and a relentless pass rush is what I saw from the KC defense, and that would have made it tough for any QB, specfially one so inexperienced as Jordan Love.
the fools here are those that expected LOve to come out and beat KC if KC played better then they had prior, and on defense that appeared to be true
It was rosier than I would have made it out to be.
What I am really trying to figure out is who is a part of this supposed itwasnotjordansfault gang.
Yeah it was a great article and greatly appreciated. It just sucks one of either than Aaron Jones screen or Davante Adams TD couldn't connect. Just had the feeling we were simply one play away. I think the Aaron Jones screen connection early in the game would have set a very different tone.
It looks to me like the biggest issue he has is accuracy and dealing with pressure. Though honestly it's hard for me to pin too much on pressure because that was one of the most ridiculous pressure games I have ever seen. I wouldn't be surprised if other teams try and mimick what Spagnola did against us as usually see Rodgers struggle with this too. I was disappointed on the lack of quick WR screens. I thought that would have been effective, yet again, the edge guys always got such a great jump to get in the passing lane that it probably wouldn't have worked.
We have seen it before where loud road games just make it nearly impossible for our offense to operate.
I wouldn't be surprised if other teams try and mimick what Spagnola did against us as usually see Rodgers struggle with this too.
does Rodgers usually struggles with this? I think Rodgers would usually torch a 6 or 7 man blitz. In my opinion, Rodgers struggles tremendously when teams can get pressure with only 4 or 5 guys rushing, and can still play coverage on the back end.
Committing that many guys to the blitz is a recipe to get torched by Rodgers to Adams or MVS or a quick slant to Cobb the way I see it.
