Packers Huddle

Papa John wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:43

Yoop wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:24

APB wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2024 20:19

Can you imagine Rodgers still being on the team this year and how he would have handled all the bone-headed mistakes by the youngin’s? Can you imagine the body language and scowls? I’m convinced this season would have been a disaster, especially considering Rodgers penchant for NOT throwing to receivers he didn’t trust.

I give Jordan Love SO MUCH CREDIT for leading this offense through their collective growing pains and coming out the other side a legitimate offensive juggernaut!

we'd have won the division this season with Rodgers, you and others just wont accept how bad the situation for most of the season last year, hell minus Barry finally allowing our players to play up to there ability and we wouldn't be in the PO's this year.

Love may end up better then Rodgers, who knows, but the start of this season was just as bad as last year when it comes to supporting cast and never became as good as the supporting cast this season.

I really could have seen either of these scenarios happening if AR were the QB.

possible, thing is Rodgers would have had no learning curve, would have been better at setting pass protection and exposing a possible stunt or blitz, and minus any off season chemistry building built it pretty quick with Doubs and Watson when they stayed healthy.

I think Rodgers has become such a vile creature with many Packer fans they won't give him his due, in the end Love could end up being just as good, heck to me they look almost identical.

go pak go wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:33

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 13:55

APB wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2024 20:19

Can you imagine Rodgers still being on the team this year and how he would have handled all the bone-headed mistakes by the youngin’s? Can you imagine the body language and scowls? I’m convinced this season would have been a disaster, especially considering Rodgers penchant for NOT throwing to receivers he didn’t trust.

I give Jordan Love SO MUCH CREDIT for leading this offense through their collective growing pains and coming out the other side a legitimate offensive juggernaut!

I think a lot of people are wrong on this though. He wasn't down on everyone for making mistakes. Lazard made them all the time. So did a young Adams. So did Jones. So did Jordy, So did geronimo. And Doubs last year. Was always coaching them. All those guys. They would drop passes and he'd go right back to them. Heck, some of his biggest plays to Cobb were wrong routes, some to even beat the Bears to go on to do great things. Remember?

what he didn't tolerate was the garbage from certain guys that didn't try and didn't play well, guys that don't really play anywhere since here. Do we think Love brings a TE playing OT and Deguara to the playoffs? Do we really think Rodgers couldn't have or wouldn't have made use of the 2 best TE prospects we've had in GB in a decade? Jayden Reed vs Amari Rodgers, talk about a juxtaposition lol

and we saw receivers running to the wrong places and a QB that didn't trust them earlier in the year, how did that look? That team wasn't taking us to the playoffs.

But they did get it together, because they kept working. That is something they couldn't quite get done last year. But the quality in these 2 teams is very different if you ask me. Toure was practically a starter most weeks last year. This year he can't even find the active roster because of the guys we brought in. Situations were very different from last year to this.

ANyway, I don't need to tear down Rodgers to build up Love. I'm impressed with the Kid to say the least. They've come a long way, still have things to work on, but they fought thru stuff that makes lesser players quit and keep finding ways to improve. Great ability and great attitudes, call me a fan

I think it is safe to say the undeniable fact is Love is more willing and has a better probability of learning and growing with this new group because they are his guys whereas Rodgers would have a harder time simply due to life stage between the two quarterbacks.

That's not a tear down of Rodgers but instead an observed fact between the two. It's just a different dynamic between the life stage of both QBs. And I think that's why the locker room looks to have more fund and bonding together better.

definitely. 2 very different stages of careers. But I disagree that Rodgers could not have or would not have grown with these new guys. I think they would have lit it up like they're doing now. The attitude, ability and effort of these guys almost ensures they'll have success. If there is one thing Rodgers held in highest esteem, it was the willingness to work. I think he'd have loved these guys and it would have shown in the product on the field.

Yoop wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:53

Papa John wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:43

Yoop wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 14:24

we'd have won the division this season with Rodgers, you and others just wont accept how bad the situation for most of the season last year, hell minus Barry finally allowing our players to play up to there ability and we wouldn't be in the PO's this year.

Love may end up better then Rodgers, who knows, but the start of this season was just as bad as last year when it comes to supporting cast and never became as good as the supporting cast this season.

I really could have seen either of these scenarios happening if AR were the QB.

possible, thing is Rodgers would have had no learning curve, would have been better at setting pass protection and exposing a possible stunt or blitz, and minus any off season chemistry building built it pretty quick with Doubs and Watson when they stayed healthy.

I think Rodgers has become such a vile creature with many Packer fans they won't give him his due, in the end Love could end up being just as good, heck to me they look almost identical.

The knock on Rodgers in this case is that he doesn't have patience for the young WR's- we know this is true. Is it understandable? IMO, yes it is understandable that a veteran who has been in the league as long as he has would be short on patience. But that is part of his job. That's what he gets paid to do. I think, regardless of the player, it's typically going to be easier for a younger QB to have an open mind.

Jordan Love worked with these receivers in the off-season and outside of practice during the season.

During the season, Love has developed a kinda game I didn't see from AR or Favre: I likes to expose coverage mistakes and holes created by blitzing by throwing scary-looking passes off the backfoot, and getting away with it. He has had so many big passes that seemed to float in the air forever.

It has worked so far, and I'm kinda surprised opponents haven't been able to capitalize on any INTs off it.

Hopefully his uncanny ways continue going forward.

I don't believe Rodgers wins the division with this group this year. I think there is a chance he equals what Love did but I wouldn't count on it.

I think Love brought more as a player in 2023 than Rodgers did in 2022. I think Love's accuracy was better, I think Love was more effective with his legs, and I think Love had the intangible that his teammates wanted to play for him and win with him more.

I truly believe all of these things.

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 13:55

what he didn't tolerate was the garbage from certain guys that didn't try and didn't play well, guys that don't really play anywhere since here. Do we think Love brings a TE playing OT and Deguara to the playoffs? Do we really think Rodgers couldn't have or wouldn't have made use of the 2 best TE prospects we've had in GB in a decade? Jayden Reed vs Amari Rodgers, talk about a juxtaposition lol

Jermichael Findley was a rookie in 2008. Would Rodgers use him? Barely. He threw to him 12 times. 6 completions, 3 first downs, 1 TD. Wouldn't Finley qualify as the best TE prospect we had in the previous decade?

Muisgrave and Kraft had 86 targets between them this season. 65 catches, 707 yards, 32 first downs, 3 TDs.

(James Jones had 80 targets from Favre in his first year, 30 targets from Rodgers in his second. Rodgers had veteran receivers to throw to, and he wasn't really interested in throwing to the newbies.

And one more stat that I've just seen. Jordan Love threw for 312 yards on Sunday, and 282 of those yards were caught by receivers who started the season with zero career catches.

Nothing could make me hate this board more than seeing TWO Love threads devolve into idiots saying we would have been a better team this year with Rodgers than with Love.

It's the dumbest take I've ever seen because AARON RODGERS IS AN OLD MAN WITH A RUPTURED ACHILES WHO PLAYED MEDIOCRE BALL LAST YEAR AND CHECKED OUT OF THE LOCKER ROOM.

And that is an undeniable fact. Nothing to argue there. Rodgers didn't give a crap about our team last year, and he would never ever lead it anywhere again. (that part is an opinion drawn from facts)

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 20:07

Nothing could make me hate this board more than seeing TWO Love threads devolve into idiots saying we would have been a better team this year with Rodgers than with Love.

It's the dumbest take I've ever seen because AARON RODGERS IS AN OLD MAN WITH A RUPTURED ACHILES WHO PLAYED MEDIOCRE BALL LAST YEAR AND CHECKED OUT OF THE LOCKER ROOM.

AR didn't have a ruptured achiles until Week 1 this season.

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 20:16

AR didn't have a ruptured achiles until Week 1 this season.

Does that change the fact that he has one right now? And has had one all season?

Why are we talking about what an old injured talk show contributor would have done with this team when we saw what he could do with this franchise a year earlier, and it was not good. And we saw what his replacement can do, and it was inconsistent early and then trending toward great.

Age is a thing that happens to people. Rodgers is old; he is stubborn and set in his ways. He is oft-injured. He broke his thumb. He has a long long history of calf strains that likely contributed to the general wear and tear that left his achilles weak and ready to snap. He will never again be the person or player you (and all of us) once loved. The inability to move on is, genuinely, sad. I pity those who can't.

It was fun. he was great with a football. It is over.

dsr wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 18:50

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 13:55

what he didn't tolerate was the garbage from certain guys that didn't try and didn't play well, guys that don't really play anywhere since here. Do we think Love brings a TE playing OT and Deguara to the playoffs? Do we really think Rodgers couldn't have or wouldn't have made use of the 2 best TE prospects we've had in GB in a decade? Jayden Reed vs Amari Rodgers, talk about a juxtaposition lol

Jermichael Findley was a rookie in 2008. Would Rodgers use him? Barely. He threw to him 12 times. 6 completions, 3 first downs, 1 TD. Wouldn't Finley qualify as the best TE prospect we had in the previous decade?

Muisgrave and Kraft had 86 targets between them this season. 65 catches, 707 yards, 32 first downs, 3 TDs.

(James Jones had 80 targets from Favre in his first year, 30 targets from Rodgers in his second. Rodgers had veteran receivers to throw to, and he wasn't really interested in throwing to the newbies.

A decade and a half ago, yes. He was a slow starter but quickly grew into an oft targeted receiver. I recall he had a bit of a dropping problem.

How in the heck do you remember who was targeted more or less that many years ago? I can’t so I had to look

James Jones also played in 16 games that year with a Favre with 9 starts vs 6 fewer games played with Rodgers and only 2 games started. Hardly and apples to apples comparison. Rather disingenuous if you ask me to even bring it up.

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 20:20

dsr wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 18:50

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 13:55

what he didn't tolerate was the garbage from certain guys that didn't try and didn't play well, guys that don't really play anywhere since here. Do we think Love brings a TE playing OT and Deguara to the playoffs? Do we really think Rodgers couldn't have or wouldn't have made use of the 2 best TE prospects we've had in GB in a decade? Jayden Reed vs Amari Rodgers, talk about a juxtaposition lol

Jermichael Findley was a rookie in 2008. Would Rodgers use him? Barely. He threw to him 12 times. 6 completions, 3 first downs, 1 TD. Wouldn't Finley qualify as the best TE prospect we had in the previous decade?

Muisgrave and Kraft had 86 targets between them this season. 65 catches, 707 yards, 32 first downs, 3 TDs.

(James Jones had 80 targets from Favre in his first year, 30 targets from Rodgers in his second. Rodgers had veteran receivers to throw to, and he wasn't really interested in throwing to the newbies.

A decade and a half ago, yes. He was a slow starter but quickly grew into an oft targeted receiver. I recall he had a bit of a dropping problem.

How in the heck do you remember who was targeted more or less that many years ago? I can’t so I had to look

James Jones also played in 16 games that year with a Favre with 9 starts vs 6 fewer games played with Rodgers and only 2 games started. Hardly and apples to apples comparison. Rather disingenuous if you ask me to even bring it up.

I don't remember the stats, I looked them up. (Though I didn't notice that Jones missed so many games, so thanks for that.) I think the Finlay comparison holds up, though.

And without looking, on a per snap basis I bet Rodgers targeted Watson and Doubs as rookies close to what the next QB did. Toure probably more targets as a rookie

Jared abbredaris and Jeff Janis probably had careeer highs with Rodgers, in a playoff game no less.

He’d throw the ball to guys who worked, and who were available. It shouldn’t be surprising love has thrown it to rookies more. They’re starting out together, they are clearly some of the most talented pass catchers we’ve brought in since guys like Jordy or Adam’s and every pass catcher is a first or 2nd year guy, who else is he going to throw to?

I think way too much is made of this.

dsr wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 19:19

And one more stat that I've just seen. Jordan Love threw for 312 yards on Sunday, and 282 of those yards were caught by receivers who started the season with zero career catches.

This is incredible. It was Love and the rookie receivers believing in themselves when few did.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 20:07

Nothing could make me hate this board more than seeing TWO Love threads devolve into idiots saying we would have been a better team this year with Rodgers than with Love.

It's the dumbest take I've ever seen because AARON RODGERS IS AN OLD MAN WITH A RUPTURED ACHILES WHO PLAYED MEDIOCRE BALL LAST YEAR AND CHECKED OUT OF THE LOCKER ROOM.

And that is an undeniable fact. Nothing to argue there. Rodgers didn't give a crap about our team last year, and he would never ever lead it anywhere again. (that part is an opinion drawn from facts)

Rodgers played last year the way Love started this season, with a make shift OL, and receivers screwing up, and that went on for most of last season, and your basing your opinion (which I partially agree with) is that he's 40 and tore his achiles this year, minus that injury and everything is mute, you have no idea how well he would have played.
now I apologize for this tread being derailed, but it sure isn't idiotic to think he was still capable of starting better and playing as well as Love.

my feelings about him in no way diminishes my excitement for Love or the future of this team, it's possible to like both players, and no one needs to be pitied for that.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2024 19:56

Before the season, I took the central thesis of this thread literally and lade a whole big list of which QBs I thought it was fair to measure Jordan Love against this season. This included past performances or 2023 performances playing out alongside Jordan. I wrote a big ole' post explaining my thoughts, which I've quoted below. I also added second-year Josh Allen because about midway through the season, I stumbled upon the realization that love's numbers looked VERY similar to Allen's full-year stats from the year before his breakout. I didn;'t realize Love would finish the season by breaking out in the same season, but anyway..

Now, with the season over, we have the necessary data to compare.

So here's a picture of a table showing the results. If a stat is shaded in red, the player was worse than Love in that category. If a stat is shaded in green, it means the player was better than Love in that category.

There's a loootttt of red, y'all

image.png

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2023 10:11

So I've been thinking about the bars of comparison for Love.

He is not a rookie. But he is a first time starter. His 3 years on the bench developing matter (immensely) especially because that was the scouting report on him coming out: great arm talent, bad habits, needs a lot of work on fundamentals tied to accuracy and decision making. For him, taking time was part of the equation, like it should be for a guy like Levis or Richardson.

But he's also not a guy making a 2nd/3rd-year jump after getting a sense for the nuances of the game, like Josh Allen did after playing relatively mediocre football for his rookie and sophomore year. And he's not banging down the door with his play so hard you trade the starter after one year like Mahomes was.

Piggybacking on Yoho's post to look at Love and Rodgers ranked against the rest of the league in the respective years: Green=Love ranked better, Gold=Tie, Red=Rodgers ranked better

2023 Jordan Love:
Passing Yards - 7th
Passing TDs - 2nd
TD % - 5th
Interceptions (reverse order) - 10th
Interception % - 17th
Passer Rating - 11th
QBR - 9th
Completion % - 20th
Yards/Attempt - 14th
Sacks (reverse order) - 19th
Sack % - 5th

2022 Aaron Rodgers:
Passing Yards - 11th
Passing TDs - 7th
TD % - 12th
Interceptions (reverse order) - 9th
Interception % - 16th
Passer Rating - 16th
QBR - 27th
Completion % - 20th
Yards/Attempt - 26th
Sacks (reverse order) - 14th
Sack % - 11th

2008 Aaron Rodgers:
Passing Yards - 4th
Passing TDs - 4th
TD % - 4th
Interceptions (reverse order) - 8th
Interception % - 15th
Passer Rating - 6th
QBR - 11th
Completion % - 10th
Yards/Attempt - 9th
Sacks (reverse order) - 7th
Sack % - 22nd

musclestang wrote: ↑

08 Jan 2024 20:52

He’d throw the ball to guys who worked, and who were available. It shouldn’t be surprising love has thrown it to rookies more. They’re starting out together, they are clearly some of the most talented pass catchers we’ve brought in since guys like Jordy or Adam’s and every pass catcher is a first or 2nd year guy, who else is he going to throw to?

I think way too much is made of this.

This is a good point. We are heaping praise upon Jordan Love. And it's justified- he deserves it. But I think the gripes about Rodgers are less of a product of him as an individual and more a product of his circumstances. Let's not forget that 15 years ago, there was almost certainly a thread in a forum just like this entitled "Aaron Freaking Rodgers." And everyone was touting him as the selfless anti-Favre... "that old self-centered diva AH."

Isn't it funny how everything comes full circle? My point is, "Heavy lies the crown," as they say. And as the QB of the Green Bay Packers, the crown is heavy. And when you carry that crown for years and years with all of the good and the bad that comes with it, then maybe it makes a little sense that he'd be a bit rigid and short on patience with young players, regardless of who he is. And maybe it makes sense that a young buck who hasn't accumulated the traumas and battle scars with blood and sweat would gel better with a younger team.

Aaron Rodgers' "approval rating" among Packer nation seems to be very low at the moment. I suspect some of that is due to political reasons, but I'm not referring to that. I'm talking strictly football. Think of this post as me going to bat for Aaron Rodgers. Could he have handled certain things better towards the end of his tenure here? Yes, absolutely. But he is a human with a personal life and we don't know what went on behind the scenes. Until we walk in his shoes, it's hard to say "he should've done x,y, and z." He did great things for this organization, and it was, more or less, and amicable parting of ways, and I just don't want to see him go out a villain. And I want to say these things about him now because, God willing, if Jordan Love finds himself as Packers QB 15 years from now and is surrounded by rookie WR's half his age, I will say the same things.

Favre had his own locker room, such a diva . I do remember his criticisms too. Rodgers didn't force the ball like Favre, or turn it over, Rodgers spread it around to everyone. Guys liked him, he hung out with them. Even played guitar with some.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

circumstances where different last year (receivers group is best we've had in a decade)

NO one knows who Love will be in ten years (could end up a worse diva then anyone we've ever had)

thing is we loved Favre, like we loved Starr, like we love Rodgers, just like we now love Love, when there time is up, not so much, after there gone awhile we welcome them back, honor them with some sort of recognition/achievement award, I expect/hope that will be Love's future.