Packers Huddle

BF004 wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 09:38

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

10 Dec 2020 16:51

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Dec 2020 15:10

Now that makes more sense than the way it was initially reported

Didn't they go talk to Pettine before the Eagles game?

That's what this tweet is about. Clarifying that they didn't go together like previously reported.

paco wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 11:27

BF004 wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 09:38

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

10 Dec 2020 16:51

Now that makes more sense than the way it was initially reported

Didn't they go talk to Pettine before the Eagles game?

That's what this tweet is about. Clarifying that they didn't go together like previously reported.

yep, seems to be just clarification, I read this a week ago.

Tom Silverstein
@TomSilverstein
·
Dec 6
#Packers OLB Za'Darius Smith said he, Preston Smith and Kenny Clark went to DC Mike Pettine this week and asked to simplify things and let them get after the QB like they were used to doing. He said Pettine turned them loose especially late in the game as opposed to last week.

actually this was part of a Silverstein article concerning Martin and Barnes, it's now off the Journal front page.

Has this been posted yet? If not here we go. Poor LB play. Inside and out.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 17:25

Has this been posted yet? If not here we go. Poor LB play. Inside and out.

Interesting video, thanks for posting. This shows how bad Kirksey has played.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 17:25

Has this been posted yet? If not here we go. Poor LB play. Inside and out.

thanks this better explains some of my comments, true we do need another stud tackle next to Clark, however un less that tackle can also rush the passer Pettine will use the more agile KeKe, the biggest problem as we can see in this vidoe is the poor play at ILB and also edge contain.

just like almost every DC in the league, Pettine favors coverage ability over stopping the run, so we play mostly nickle and dime packages using 1 ILB and a safety at the ILB positions, the safety has helped in coverage, but is tossed around against the run, and our MLB (KIrksey) hasn't been very good at anything, true we have a couple rookies with Martin who the coaches feel is the future at the position, and a 2 dn thumper with Barnes, but if they struggle in coverage, nothing will change, we'll continue to struggle as a defense against 3rd and short, where right now we are in the bottom third in the league.

Absolutely love today's episode.

williewasgreat wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 05:10

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 17:25

Has this been posted yet? If not here we go. Poor LB play. Inside and out.

Interesting video, thanks for posting. This shows how bad Kirksey has played.

Gutey losing Blake (alright I get that) and then thinking that Kirksey would be an answer, was one of the worst decision i Can imagine. If we look back on the Board at summer discussions, many of us knew Kirksey was a disaster decision even before the season started. Almost like we were prophets.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 08:21

williewasgreat wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 05:10

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Dec 2020 17:25

Has this been posted yet? If not here we go. Poor LB play. Inside and out.

Interesting video, thanks for posting. This shows how bad Kirksey has played.

Gutey losing Blake (alright I get that) and then thinking that Kirksey would be an answer, was one of the worst decision i Can imagine. If we look back on the Board at summer discussions, many of us knew Kirksey was a disaster decision even before the season started. Almost like we were prophets.

Blake looked awful his last year here, but he also was a one man army with no help. It's hindsight, but I'm guessing he would have looked much better between the Smiths, despite their inability to contain. Blake was great at that in the beginning, when Ryan was in the middle too. Those both really had a knack for the football. Honestly, the way I saw Summers play in the offseason, I thought they'd stick with him. Super raw kid, but he always was around the ball.

The only thing I remember people complaining about Kirskey was the injury concerns. And so far that was a reasonable fear.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 09:28

Drj820 wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 08:21

williewasgreat wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 05:10

Interesting video, thanks for posting. This shows how bad Kirksey has played.

Gutey losing Blake (alright I get that) and then thinking that Kirksey would be an answer, was one of the worst decision i Can imagine. If we look back on the Board at summer discussions, many of us knew Kirksey was a disaster decision even before the season started. Almost like we were prophets.

Blake looked awful his last year here, but he also was a one man army with no help. It's hindsight, but I'm guessing he would have looked much better between the Smiths, despite their inability to contain. Blake was great at that in the beginning, when Ryan was in the middle too. Those both really had a knack for the football. Honestly, the way I saw Summers play in the offseason, I thought they'd stick with him. Super raw kid, but he always was around the ball.

The only thing I remember people complaining about Kirskey was the injury concerns. And so far that was a reasonable fear.

Okay I am super confused here.

1. Blake Martinez's last year here, which you say he looked awful, but last year was when he was between the Smiths.
2. Blake has looked really good with the Giants which means perhaps we used him incorrectly as Blake complained about last year.
3. Where did you see Ty Summer play in the offseason? Ty Summers has actually played a lot this year because of our injuries at ILB. There are times he looks good and you can see his speed. He does occassionally strugle to read the play properly and his biggest issue is tackling.

I think there is reason for optimism of Barnes, Summers and Martin. They just need experience. Unfortunately Kirksey just looks washed up from his injuries.

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 11:59

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 09:28

Drj820 wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 08:21

Gutey losing Blake (alright I get that) and then thinking that Kirksey would be an answer, was one of the worst decision i Can imagine. If we look back on the Board at summer discussions, many of us knew Kirksey was a disaster decision even before the season started. Almost like we were prophets.

Blake looked awful his last year here, but he also was a one man army with no help. It's hindsight, but I'm guessing he would have looked much better between the Smiths, despite their inability to contain. Blake was great at that in the beginning, when Ryan was in the middle too. Those both really had a knack for the football. Honestly, the way I saw Summers play in the offseason, I thought they'd stick with him. Super raw kid, but he always was around the ball.

The only thing I remember people complaining about Kirskey was the injury concerns. And so far that was a reasonable fear.

Okay I am super confused here.

1. Blake Martinez's last year here, which you say he looked awful, but last year was when he was between the Smiths.
2. Blake has looked really good with the Giants which means perhaps we used him incorrectly as Blake complained about last year.
3. Where did you see Ty Summer play in the offseason? Ty Summers has actually played a lot this year because of our injuries at ILB. There are times he looks good and you can see his speed. He does occassionally strugle to read the play properly and his biggest issue is tackling.

I think there is reason for optimism of Barnes, Summers and Martin. They just need experience. Unfortunately Kirksey just looks washed up from his injuries.

Whoops, for some reason I thought he signed with New York two years ago.

I don't doubt we were utilizing him wrong, but he hasn't looked good outside his first couple years here though in my opinion. He just really struggled with whatever he was doing it seemed, and that included between the Smith boys it appears. There was such a major drop off in his play, but at the same time he was "it" at ILB and there wasn't a whole lot behind him. We were forced to either pay him or let him go, I think it was the right thing to do at the time... but, currently, I'm more on the fence about it.

Summers played a lot in 2019 offseason. I was more so referencing his playing time during the 2019 regular season. Apologies. I like a lot of what he brings, and want to see more of him than Kirskey. Anyone at this point is better than he's been at this point.

And yeah, 100% on seeing Barnes and Martin too. When Kirksey went down, think it was Martin that stepped in and our play at the position sky rocketed it seemed.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

12 Dec 2020 13:32

And yeah, 100% on seeing Barnes and Martin too. When Kirksey went down, think it was Martin that stepped in and our play at the position sky rocketed it seemed.

Yeah. I mean Kirksey is making $4.5 million or so less than Martinez too. So I think that needs to be considered. I have no problem moving on from Blake.

It's unfortunate Kirksey seems to be set so far back from his injuries. He looks really, really slow out there.

Patrick Graham was Blake's LB coach for a year in GB. He's the Giants' DC now.

When the Giants signed Blake, they knew exactly what they were getting and how he'd fit into what Graham wanted to do. He was, by definition, a scheme fit signing, with full knowledge.

So it makes sense then that he'd be used to his strengths in the current scheme

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/buildi ... management

According to Pro Football Focus’ resident nerds, Seahawks LB Bobby Wagner has been a more valuable player than Aaron Donald, who is arguably the most dominant player in the league, according to their proprietary Wins Above Replacement metric. Wagner has been worth 2.4 WAR over the last three years while Donald has been worth “only” 2.0 WAR.

Pro Football Focus explained:

So why is Donald not ahead of Wagner? First off, Wagner is a phenomenal player who does his job at just about as high a level as Donald. The kicker is that Wagner provides many of his best play at a more important point in the play: covering the player to whom the ball is thrown. As we’ve written about before both coverage and pass-rush are important components of winning football games, but coverage reigns supreme and when measuring the value of a player this is taken into consideration.

That’s why Seattle was willing to make Wagner the highest-paid linebacker in league history recently.

we need a Wagner.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/is-t ... nfl-trend/

Is that a LB or a safety? Why hybrid players are part of a growing NFL trend

a Pete Prisco article from 2016 shows the evolution of the hybrid lbers/safety

I mean everyone would love a Wagner, Warner, Demario Davis.

The Saints, 9ers Hawks all got very lucky these players just exploded for them and worked out very well.

Hopefully we have that with future Kamal Martin.

So the guy has such a good grade because of his contributions in the passing game.

But the guy with the highest double team rate in the NFL and lead leader in sacks isn’t also equally effecting the passing game?


Not at all to diminish Wagner, he is the best LB this century, but I think that is bananas so say he has been 20% more valuable than Donald.

BF004 wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 08:25

So the guy has such a good grade because of his contributions in the passing game.

But the guy with the highest double team rate in the NFL and lead leader in sacks isn’t also equally effecting the passing game?


Not at all to diminish Wagner, he is the best LB this century, but I think that is bananas so say he has been 20% more valuable than Donald.

Especially when he is on the worst passing defense in the league.

The Rams could be dangerous.

BF004 wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 08:25

So the guy has such a good grade because of his contributions in the passing game.

But the guy with the highest double team rate in the NFL and lead leader in sacks isn’t also equally effecting the passing game?


Not at all to diminish Wagner, he is the best LB this century, but I think that is bananas so say he has been 20% more valuable than Donald.

more successful per play, remember, pass rush fails over, way over 50% of the time, I brought this and that other article to show how football evolves, defense is always trying to catch up with evolving offensive schemes, 4 plus years ago DC went to the hybrid safety, coupled with a Wagner type ILB if they had one, we did it with Hawk (first) and Burnette, Hawk had lost speed, but was rarely out of position, and Burny was stout against the run, but also pretty dang good in coverage.

coverage has to support the pass rush till the pass rush is able to pressure the QB, and rarely does that happen in under a 2 count, Wagner (other ILB) with coverage skills take away the first route read or two just as these hybrid safety's are, to often though these hybrids are not stout enough to be of value stopping the run, and become a liability when OC go to no huddle looking a defense into that lighter package

since then it's been a revolving door at the hybrid position, and our MLB seems tasked with trying t6o do not only his job but also to try and help the scrub hybrids we've used, Green seems the best, but now he's hurt.

I brought it because I think both articles describe pretty well our dilema concerning the platooning.

these days speed is the need at ILB, gone are the days of plodder type ILB's, 2 down thumpers keep speed on the sidelines, DC want guys like Devon Bush etc, just big enough to fight off blocks, yet agile and quick in coverage, Martin might become a Wagner type clone, but I'am not satisfied with Barnes or even Raven Green next to him.

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 09:29

BF004 wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 08:25

So the guy has such a good grade because of his contributions in the passing game.

But the guy with the highest double team rate in the NFL and lead leader in sacks isn’t also equally effecting the passing game?


Not at all to diminish Wagner, he is the best LB this century, but I think that is bananas so say he has been 20% more valuable than Donald.

more successful per play, remember, pass rush fails over, way over 50% of the time, I brought this and that other article to show how football evolves, defense is always trying to catch up with evolving offensive schemes, 4 plus years ago DC went to the hybrid safety, coupled with a Wagner type ILB if they had one, we did it with Hawk (first) and Burnette, Hawk had lost speed, but was rarely out of position, and Burny was stout against the run, but also pretty dang good in coverage.

since then it's been a revolving door at the hybrid position, and our MLB seems tasked with trying t6o do not only his job but also to try and help the scrub hybrids we've used, Green seems the best, but now he's hurt.

I brought it because I think both articles describe pretty well our dilema.

How is Bobby Wagner and his defense more successful per play when his pass defense is the worst in the NFL?

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 09:58

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 09:29

BF004 wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2020 08:25

So the guy has such a good grade because of his contributions in the passing game.

But the guy with the highest double team rate in the NFL and lead leader in sacks isn’t also equally effecting the passing game?


Not at all to diminish Wagner, he is the best LB this century, but I think that is bananas so say he has been 20% more valuable than Donald.

more successful per play, remember, pass rush fails over, way over 50% of the time, I brought this and that other article to show how football evolves, defense is always trying to catch up with evolving offensive schemes, 4 plus years ago DC went to the hybrid safety, coupled with a Wagner type ILB if they had one, we did it with Hawk (first) and Burnette, Hawk had lost speed, but was rarely out of position, and Burny was stout against the run, but also pretty dang good in coverage.

since then it's been a revolving door at the hybrid position, and our MLB seems tasked with trying t6o do not only his job but also to try and help the scrub hybrids we've used, Green seems the best, but now he's hurt.

I brought it because I think both articles describe pretty well our dilema.

How is Bobby Wagner and his defense more successful per play when his pass defense is the worst in the NFL?

why are you so concerned with the team Wagner plays on versus what this article is about, which is the position he plays, I don't know why I even both er to bring stuff, since all you want to do is prove me or the article wrong.

to funny, we support the findings of PFF, but only when it supports our pre conceived opinion