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Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 14:20
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 11:21
Raptorman wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 10:33
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 17:45
I never said a hand on the shoulder won't slow down the receiver. That is exactly what it is meant to do and within 5 yards that is perfectly legal. Why do you believe there is a 5 yard legal contact rule?
Why do people argue something that is perfectly legal to do and is done all the time all year? You can press, contact, push, and impede a WR within 5 yards of the LOS. This is not that difficult to understand, The fact that it isn't done more baffles me. Particularly if you have a good D-line that can get to the QB in around 4 seconds. I know the fear is that once pressed, the WR might get around them and get open.
Crap, there I go again. Agreeing with you.
the legality of a shoulder grab, a punch, or a hand on as long as it doesn't amount to actually holding has never been the issue, rather that it does impede the receiver just as much as holding the jersey does in many cases.
heres more, obviously your not allowed to keep hammering a WR in that 5 yrds, maybe you two should go read up on this stuff.
What is illegal contact within 5 yards?
The only time you can have illegal contact within five yards is if the defender chucks the receiver in the back or a second chuck. One defender can't chuck a receiver at two yards, separate, and chuck him again at four yards, because that would also be illegal contact.
https://www.rookieroad.com/football/rul ... -bump-rule
again when Bradberry grabbed the front of the shoulder Shuster was already even if not actually in front of Bradberry, which constitutes a PI call
you've been so concerned with claiming the legality of grabbing the shoulder or any other contact that you over look the nuances of the rules concerning contact in the first 5 yrds
I suggest you read what you brought. Then reread what you wrote. He was still in contact and the receiver was still Infront and never gained separation and thus can still chuck him. Legal except for the jersey pull.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 14:28
by NCF
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 14:32
by Pckfn23
NCF wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:28
That's a really good shot, and probably from the refs vantage point.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 14:57
by Yoop
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:32
NCF wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:28
That's a really good shot, and probably from the refs vantage point.
again as you can plainly see Bradberry does get a slight grip on the front of that shoulder, as I've attempted to explain.
my impression is that you think defense should be allowed to mug receivers
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 14:59
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:57
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:32
NCF wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 14:28
That's a really good shot, and probably from the refs vantage point.
again as you can plainly see Bradberry does get a slight grip on the front of that shoulder, as I've attempted to explain.
Nope no grip.
- Screenshot_20230216-131332.png (722.71 KiB) Viewed 480 times
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 16:45
by Captain_Ben
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 14:53
texas wrote: ↑14 Feb 2023 22:06
In 2019 I went to the Baylor-OU game when Hurts was their QB. We were up a bunch at halftime, just totally dominating them. Then in the 2nd half our defense just couldn't stop them from moving the chains on a few long drives, and when our offense did get a chance to take the field in between OU drives, we'd immediately go 3 and out. So pretty much what happened to the Eagles.
So I would like to think that KC BU player feels like he finally got some payback in the same way Hurts dished it out to us.
I think the Eagles would be dumb to feel wedded to Hurts. If they were to offer him some gigantic contract out of fear that he might leave, it would be a bad move IMO. He is good but had an extremely talented supporting cast. I don't think he brings anything that is exceptionally difficult to replace. That being said, if you can keep him for a bargain, then keep him. Just my opinion.
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 17:55
by wallyuwl
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 14:53
I think the Eagles would be dumb to feel wedded to Hurts. If they were to offer him some gigantic contract out of fear that he might leave, it would be a bad move IMO. He is good but had an extremely talented supporting cast. I don't think he brings anything that is exceptionally difficult to replace. That being said, if you can keep him for a bargain, then keep him. Just my opinion.
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Well, Hurts did make the play of the game
A bigger concern is the ladt play of that game. A weak arm was his MO for 2020 and 2021. That hail mary went like 40 yards.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 17:57
by Drj820
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 14:53
I think the Eagles would be dumb to feel wedded to Hurts. If they were to offer him some gigantic contract out of fear that he might leave, it would be a bad move IMO. He is good but had an extremely talented supporting cast. I don't think he brings anything that is exceptionally difficult to replace. That being said, if you can keep him for a bargain, then keep him. Just my opinion.
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Hard to blame anybody on a teams offense that puts up 35 points
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 18:47
by texas
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 14:53
I think the Eagles would be dumb to feel wedded to Hurts. If they were to offer him some gigantic contract out of fear that he might leave, it would be a bad move IMO. He is good but had an extremely talented supporting cast. I don't think he brings anything that is exceptionally difficult to replace. That being said, if you can keep him for a bargain, then keep him. Just my opinion.
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Idk. That game could have gone either way. I think it's tough to hold it against Hurts especially when his defense couldn't get off the field in the 2nd half.
He's no All Pro, but he's good enough to win a championship, when surrounded by talent like he is. Of course, if he tries to get a huge contract then he no longer will be surrounded by all of that talent. But how often do even the best QBs win it all when not surrounded by talent?
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 18:54
by Labrev
Hurts finished the game with the highest QBR in SuperBowl history (taking the top spot from none other than Aaron Rodgers).
Only QB in the Top 5 for qbr that didn't win it.
Personally I expect him to have a Russell Wilson type career trajectory. He'll be really successful with good talent around him. He'll be good but not great when he's expensive and the talent is at league average.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 19:49
by Raptorman
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 14:53
I think the Eagles would be dumb to feel wedded to Hurts. If they were to offer him some gigantic contract out of fear that he might leave, it would be a bad move IMO. He is good but had an extremely talented supporting cast. I don't think he brings anything that is exceptionally difficult to replace. That being said, if you can keep him for a bargain, then keep him. Just my opinion.
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Go back and look how many games Brady won when the other team scored 38 points and get back to us. Then argue again it should be held against him. Funny how it's not held against Brady but here, yeah. It should count against Hurts.
Remember, 7 of those KC points came from the Defense. Hurts offense outscored the Mahomes offense. 35-31. But let's hold it against Hurts.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 16 Feb 2023 20:07
by wallyuwl
Doesn't say much about QBR as a stat when it is highest in SB history despite the fumble that cost the game. Though the Eagles O was pretty inept in the second half (which Hurts played a big part), but IMO the fumble kept KC in it, they were on their way to be blown out.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 04:35
by williewasgreat
wallyuwl wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 17:55
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Well, Hurts did make the play of the game
A bigger concern is the ladt play of that game. A weak arm was his MO for 2020 and 2021. That hail mary went like 40 yards.
I was stunned by how little distance he was able to throw that hail mary too. While my right shoulder is shot so I can't throw with it anymore, I can still throw 35-40 yards with my left arm when playing catch with my grandson. That really limits what Hurts can do.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 06:17
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 18:54
Hurts finished the game with the highest QBR in SuperBowl history (taking the top spot from none other than Aaron Rodgers).
Only QB in the Top 5 for qbr that didn't win it.
Personally I expect him to have a Russell Wilson type career trajectory. He'll be really successful with good talent around him. He'll be good but not great when he's expensive and the talent is at league average.
agree, and RPO QB's are always a tough chore for a defense to control, Hurts is a powerful option QB who if he can stay healthy will have a good career.
KC defense corralled him in the 2nd half and there offense controlled the clock, Hurts couldn't do any damage from the bench.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 10:03
by Captain_Ben
Raptorman wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 19:49
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
texas wrote: ↑15 Feb 2023 16:50
Yeah I agree, although I have always been a Hurts hater and he has always proven me wrong, so I am no longer going to bet against him.
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Go back and look how many games Brady won when the other team scored 38 points and get back to us. Then argue again it should be held against him. Funny how it's not held against Brady but here, yeah. It should count against Hurts.
Remember, 7 of those KC points came from the Defense. Hurts offense outscored the Mahomes offense. 35-31. But let's hold it against Hurts.
By hold it against him, I mean don't pay him like he's an elite QB. Because he's not. To me, he's not that much better than Dak Prescott. In fact they both ended their seasons on the same type of underwhelming "Hail Mary" throws.
Bring up Brady to your heart's content but at least when he lost that 2008 Super Bowl he went out launching 60 yard bombs.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 11:35
by Raptorman
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑17 Feb 2023 10:03
Raptorman wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 19:49
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 16:45
I actually think there's an important lesson to be learned from Hurts. The national sports media is pumping him up quite a bit but I think the fact that he wasn't able to win on Sunday should be held against him. Philadelphia had one of the most talented rosters we've seen a while. If he couldn't win the big one with that team then I don't think he can.
I'd say the same thing about Jimmy G had he stayed healthy this year. If your team has an All-Pro at every position group and you still can't win the big game, then you're not the guy.
Go back and look how many games Brady won when the other team scored 38 points and get back to us. Then argue again it should be held against him. Funny how it's not held against Brady but here, yeah. It should count against Hurts.
Remember, 7 of those KC points came from the Defense. Hurts offense outscored the Mahomes offense. 35-31. But let's hold it against Hurts.
By hold it against him, I mean don't pay him like he's an elite QB. Because he's not. To me, he's not that much better than Dak Prescott. In fact they both ended their seasons on the same type of underwhelming "Hail Mary" throws.
Bring up Brady to your heart's content but at least when he lost that 2008 Super Bowl he went out launching 60 yard bombs.
The fact remains, Hurt's offense scored more points than Mahomes and his offense did. So. let's hold Mahomes to the same standard. He didn't score enough points to win the Super Bowl. Remember, this is your standard.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 12:03
by Yoop
your both off your rocker
obviously Mahomes is a better QB, what Hurts brings is production minus the great arm, I doubt he gets the bigger contract simply because the shelf life of a RPO QB is usually about half as long if that
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 15:40
by Captain_Ben
Raptorman wrote: ↑17 Feb 2023 11:35
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑17 Feb 2023 10:03
Raptorman wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 19:49
Go back and look how many games Brady won when the other team scored 38 points and get back to us. Then argue again it should be held against him. Funny how it's not held against Brady but here, yeah. It should count against Hurts.
Remember, 7 of those KC points came from the Defense. Hurts offense outscored the Mahomes offense. 35-31. But let's hold it against Hurts.
By hold it against him, I mean don't pay him like he's an elite QB. Because he's not. To me, he's not that much better than Dak Prescott. In fact they both ended their seasons on the same type of underwhelming "Hail Mary" throws.
Bring up Brady to your heart's content but at least when he lost that 2008 Super Bowl he went out launching 60 yard bombs.
The fact remains, Hurt's offense scored more points than Mahomes and his offense did. So. let's hold Mahomes to the same standard. He didn't score enough points to win the Super Bowl.
Remember, this is your standard.
According to whom? You? You're the one who brought up points. Mahomes should be given more credit than Hurts. He lead what was almost unanimously considered to be a less talented overall roster to a Super Bowl victory.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 17 Feb 2023 17:01
by texas
Yeah, I don't buy the Mahomes hype to the extent it exists, but he's definitely a top 3 QB in the NFL right now. Maybe top 1 some games.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 18 Feb 2023 01:40
by Raptorman
wallyuwl wrote: ↑16 Feb 2023 20:07
Doesn't say much about QBR as a stat when it is highest in SB history despite the fumble that cost the game. Though the Eagles O was pretty inept in the second half (which Hurts played a big part), but IMO the fumble kept KC in it, they were on their way to be blown out.
Inept? Not counting the last play as a drive. Philly had 3 in the second half. 85 yards, 75 yards, and one for 7 that the punt was returned to the 5. Sound like a pretty inept offense to me. But I'm sure that 5-yard drive by Mahomes is what got hin the MVP.