Packers Huddle

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A private plane arrived in GB from Cincy yesterday...and there have been some "rumors of interest" from GB
Geno Atkins was medically cleared from his torn labrum injury on July 1st per rotoworld, so its possible he's making FA visits.
He wants to play in 2021, turned 33 in March.
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That would be fun.

NCF wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 11:59

That would be fun.

33 and torn labrum is tough; coming off of only 4.5 sacks in his last full healthy season (2019) is also tough.

Four straight seasons of 9 to 11 sacks from ages 27 to 30 is promising, but...

I'm not sold. I wouldn't complain, but I'm not sold. Seems like an aging name that fans know more than someone likely to help the team succeed.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 11:34

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 11:29

I don't know about the historical trend for the Steelers, but they are listed at 294, 294, 304 across the front according to Ourlads

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/PIT

Joe Barry had some big DL in front of his LBs in LA too - Brockers was listed at 322, Robinson at 304, Aaron Donald the lightweight at 285

The interesting thing to me is the idea of actually playing more often with 3 DL instead of just 2. GB finished last year with about 2100 snaps on the DL where you'd be closer to 3000 snaps if you played 3 DL all the time. By comparison, the Rams played 2600 snaps at DL in 2020

Yes, this is what I want. 3 DL much much more often. The 2 DL nickel package bums me out.

pretty hard for us to go bigger, we have 3 DE's that weight less then 300 lbs with Z and P Smith and Gary, and we have to much invested in those 3 to sit them, to me we really don't have a real OLB, so in that sense there all D Lineman.

I like the thought of a 50 front look, but someone has to be able to drop into coverage, and preferably it's not the same guy every time.

If Aaron Donald gets it done at 284 lbs then so can a guy like Gary, or Z or even Keke, who is closer to the 300 lb preferred weight.

one of our best pass rushing groups though I think was when we where real big.

Mod Edit: fixed quoting error

What I want to see are a lot of packages aimed at pass defense with Kenny Clark, Kinglsey Keke, and Z or Gary playing down, inside the tackles while Preston Smith and Gary or Z are the "EDGE" players, which can mean a 5-man blitz or that one of the edge guys plays coverage (or even a zone blitz with Gary or Z dropping back out of the down lineman spot)

I'd like to see DeVondre Campbell and guys like Randy Ramsey or Tipa Galeai rotating through the Preston Smith rush/cover role.

And I'd like to see guys like Delonte Scott and Garvin rotate into the Gary/Z roles of sometimes standing up on the edge and sometimes playing down on the line.


For run downs I'd like to see more of Slaton at the nose and Kenny Clark shifting to a 3-4 DE role in place of Kingsley Keke from the earlier-described formation.

Then maybe have Gary and Z as the EDGE guys and Dean Lowry as the 3rd down lineman, obviously with some various rotational help from Lancaster and whatnot.

Anyway, I think we have GREAT personnel to play a heavier front 5 without sacrificing the pass defense when you consider how much Gary and Z can be moved around. And I think Campbell's ability to blitz and cover could make him a nice role player in that change.

But if we don't start seeing how this defense actually looks soon, I'm going to McGinn myself by focusing so much on packages I'd like to see that I'll criticize the team for not using them even though I made the whole thing up to begin with.

5. GREEN BAY PACKERS
Kenny Clark has developed into the modern-day prototype for NFL nose tackles. The days of gargantuan run-stuffers who offered little, if any, impact in the passing game are long gone. Today’s nose tackles need to be able to rush the passer because nickel defense is played 75% of the time and obvious rushing downs are few and far between.

Clark came into the NFL as a fairly one-dimensional player, but he has developed into a true every-down force. In 2019, he had 62 total pressures and an 87.0 PFF pass-rushing grade, ranking first among nose tackles. Clark isn’t alone, though, and the Packers’ 2019 acquisitions of Za’Darius Smith and Preston Smith give the team some real depth when it comes to rushing the passer.

Za’Darius led the league last season in total pressures (93), while even a relatively quiet season from Preston saw him pressure the quarterback 55 times. The questions for this group reside in the depth beyond that trio. Dean Lowry is a former fourth-round pick who has dramatically outperformed his draft slot but may never be anything beyond solid. Last season was the worst PFF grade of his career (59.0), despite seeing his highest workload yet (726 snaps including the playoffs). Lowry can still be a solid contributor, particularly against the run, but he has yet to exceed 30 total pressures over a season.

Tyler Lancaster is a run-first presence who has registered just 13 total pressures across two years and 323 pass-rushing snaps. The Packers will also look for a major step forward from Rashan Gary, last year’s first-round pick. The former Michigan star played just 244 snaps as a rookie and made little impact, earning a PFF grade in the 50.0s. His college career suggested he was a reach in the first round, despite his athleticism, so his development is a salient factor for this defensive front.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-defensive- ... nfl-season

our unit is certainly formidable, our problem according to this is finding someone that can support the inside gaps as well or even close to Clark, if we can find that guy and the Smiths perform back to 2019 capability, and Gary makes the3 leap as expected, then this should be a very good front 4 or 5 unit.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 12:20

But if we don't start seeing how this defense actually looks soon, I'm going to McGinn myself by focusing so much on packages I'd like to see that I'll criticize the team for not using them even though I made the whole thing up to begin with.

TC can't get here soon enough for us.

we where number 5 D line 2 years ago using mostly 2 DL and 2 OLB/DE under 280lbs, our problem was that our lber (martinez) and safety/ hybrid couldn't figure out which gap to fill, and the OLB's failed to pinch in making the gaps smaller, hopefully Campbell, Martin, and Barnes provide that gap control and are not liability's in coverage, cause if this group returned to 2019 form we should be able to cause QB's to get happy feet.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 12:02

NCF wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 11:59

That would be fun.

33 and torn labrum is tough; coming off of only 4.5 sacks in his last full healthy season (2019) is also tough.

Four straight seasons of 9 to 11 sacks from ages 27 to 30 is promising, but...

I'm not sold. I wouldn't complain, but I'm not sold. Seems like an aging name that fans know more than someone likely to help the team succeed.

box score scouting ? hmmm...That's typically not your game.

Torn labrum has 85% + recovery rate in NFL. Vet DL to help with TJ Slaton and Keke and he still gets push up the middle, can handle a double team and is a world- class citizen and locker room presence. He's better than Lowry or Lancaster and will accept both a reduced role and a reduced paycheck.
This is the kind of vet DL that Championship teams need and could be a useful part of the 2021 DL rotation.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 13:00

Torn labrum has 85% + recovery rate in NFL. Vet DL to help with TJ Slaton and Keke and he still gets push up the middle, can handle a double team and is a world- class citizen and locker room presence. He's better than Lowry or Lancaster and will accept both a reduced role and a reduced paycheck.
This is the kind of vet DL that Championship teams need and could be a useful part of the 2021 DL rotation.

Yeah, I just don't have a ton to go off of, right? Like he was injured in 2020. He's at the age where you can't tell if a down season is a blip or a decline. He's at the age where an injury most recover from fully could be nothing or it could be his body breaking down.

If he's still better now than Keke is, then sign him. That's my bar. It's not a high bar. But a workout will give the team more info than we'll ever have, and that's the evaluation they have to make. 33 for a run stuffer is fine. 33 for a pass rusher with quickness... that goes either way.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 13:00

Torn labrum has 85% + recovery rate in NFL. Vet DL to help with TJ Slaton and Keke and (if) he still gets push up the middle, (if) can handle a double team and is a world- class citizen and locker room presence. He's better than Lowry or Lancaster and (if he) will accept both a reduced role and a reduced paycheck.

There are some "if's" in there but, yeah, this is a signing I can get behind.

Also, according to tweets the packers are “interested” (take that for what you will) in FA LB Kwon Alexander. He would be a nice addition to me, even though I know better than to get my hopes up.

Most defenses play better at home, but the swing in opponent passer rating at Home vs on the Road was huge for the 2020 Packers defense

Opposing QBs averaged a 79 passer rating at Lambeau, that's good enough to be the 2nd best defense in the NFL
Conversely, road QBs put up a 103 passer rating vs the Packers, that's near the bottom of the league. Jekyll and Hyde
And no crowd noise in 2020 either.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... ser-rating

APB wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2021 06:42

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2021 13:00

Torn labrum has 85% + recovery rate in NFL. Vet DL to help with TJ Slaton and Keke and (if) he still gets push up the middle, (if) can handle a double team and is a world- class citizen and locker room presence. He's better than Lowry or Lancaster and (if he) will accept both a reduced role and a reduced paycheck.

There are some "if's" in there but, yeah, this is a signing I can get behind.

Every player comes with a set of IF's, especially any that are on the street right now. NFL is at full employment in July with 32 x 90 on rosters
But in the case of Geno, he's a 5 star human and we'd get everything he has to give. And he'd get a shot to play vs Cincy in October

Atkins awards are in the past, but GB has a history of taking chances on FA Top Defenders late in their careers
( Reggie, Julius, Charles) Is he in that class ? Not quite, but I think that's a HOF career.

2× First-team All-Pro (2012, 2015)
Second-team All-Pro (2011)
8× Pro Bowl (2011, 2012, 2014–2019)
NFL 2010s All-Decade Team

Historically, some of the Big Guys were lacking intestinal fortitude at this stage of their careers - so I understand the reticence
( Joe Johnson, Muhammad Wilkerson, even Damon Harrison )

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https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/19- ... lay-passes

Eliminating big play passes

“A wise coach told me a long time ago you can fly to Miami a lot faster than you can walk there,” Pettine said in 2019 about prioritizing pass defense over run defense. “You’re going to get beat through the air. That’s the bottom line.”

Pettine’s defenses made enormous strides in that regard last season.
Green Bay allowed 39 completions of 20-plus yards, the 4th-fewest in the NFL.

The Los Angeles Rams, for whom Barry served as linebackers coach and assistant head coach the previous four seasons, and Washington Football Team allowed a league-low 36. The Rams allowed only two touchdown passes of 20-plus yards, the fewest in the league. The Packers gave up seven, which was tied for 8th-fewest.

From 2015 through 2019, the Packers on average allowed 53.4 completions and 9.6 touchdowns on completions of 20-plus yards. Those figures ranked 23rd and 26th, respectively."

20-Yard Pass Differential in 2020

Tampa Bay: 67 for, 46 against – plus-23.
Buffalo: 66 for, 44 against – plus-22.
Green Bay: 57 for, 39 against – plus-18.
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article from CheeseheadTV on Barry's defense

Barry Will Let Playmakers Make Plays on Defense

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/barry-wil ... um=twitter

"One of those playmakers, safety Adrian Amos, may find new opportunities to make plays in the box this season. Early observations from training camp would certainly seem to indicate that Amos is getting extended playing time in the box, much closer to the line of scrimmage. That leaves third-year pro Darnell Savage and a third safety (still to be determined) in two-high "

...What’s more, the Staley defense is also known for playing with a Tite front, designed to force runs to the perimeter rather than right up the middle. This Tite front benefits the inside linebackers, Barry’s bread and butter in his defense. In a traditional four-man front, a B-gap is left exposed, putting the onus on the inside linebacker to either play close to the line in an effort to stop the run, leaving himself vulnerable to a pass behind him, or play back to defend the pass, leaving an open running lane right up the B-gap.

In a Tite front, the nose tackle (looking at you, T.J. Slaton) and defensive ends absorb both the A and B gaps, forcing any runs to the C gap outside of the tackles. This is where the speedier defenders like a safety creeping closer to the line can make a break on the ball carrier and negate a big play. "

from Mike Sando

"The 2021 Packers play seven games against QBs who were No. 1 overall picks, tied with San Francisco and Seattle for most in the league"


That sounds rather daunting until you see the names of those QBs...its not too bad after all and hopefully Barry's crew is up to the task

"That’s two games against Jared Goff and one apiece against Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Stafford and Jameis Winston"

Giving Sean Payton all offseason to prepare is less than ideal, but Jameis should be good for a pick or two

2020 Packers defense played really well at Lambeau

Opponent Passer rating at Lambeau = 79.4 good enough for # 2 in the league
Opponent Points/gm at Lambeau = 20.5 good enough for #5 in the league for home defenses

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... ser-rating

from Sharp Football

What makes the Fangio/Staley/Barry defense work ? I snagged a couple snippets, but the entire article is worth a read

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/a ... ense-2021/

"...But what makes the defense work is not just that the two-high shell turns into Cover 2 or Quarters coverage with two deep safeties playing the pass at a high rate. Both Staley and Fangio use those pre-snap shells to disguise the coverage and still often rotate to a single-high coverage.
...The safety rotation worked well in coverage and one of the reasons is how much the structure of the defense works in the run game. The two-high shell presents the opposing offense with a light box, which can make it inviting to run the ball. The secret, of course, is that these defenses have their run fits structured to still be sound and effective against the run while more resources can be used to defend the pass.

In this defense, the line plays a gap-and-a-half which still allows linemen to play aggressively but also gives some protection for the second-level defenders who will need to fit the run behind them. Overall, the Rams were second in EPA per attempt allowed against the run in 2020. Denver ranked 21st in EPA per attempt allowed on the ground, but that was due to a few big plays. The Broncos ranked 11th overall in positive play rate allowed against the run.

What gave Staley an advantage there were some of the odd-man fronts he deployed. The Rams’ most used personnel grouping was a 3-3-5 (three linemen, three linebackers, and five defensive backs), though two of those linebackers played on the edge, which produced more of a 5-1 look.

Each piece of the defense plays a part in why it works so well. Just using a two-high shell isn’t going to cut it. Presenting a light box without the run fits to keep the ground game contained doesn’t make an impact (looking at you, Mike Pettine Packers). We’re going to see more teams try to implement these tactics in an effort to keep up with modern offenses. But how far they dive into the root of what makes the structure work will shape how successful the spread becomes and how big of an impact it could have on offenses throughout the 2021 season"

Let's see if Joe Barry's D can perform as expected / help win the game against the Aints. I hope we don't have to wait for the 4th quarter to see a safety blitz, etc. Or win via a shootout.

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2021 17:31

Let's see if Joe Barry's D can perform as expected / help win the game against the Aints. I hope we don't have to wait for the 4th quarter to see a safety blitz, etc. Or win via a shootout.

To me the key is going to be how he improves the run defense with what he’s been given. I won’t hold it against him if it still struggles. This is the 3rd DC in recent years and the personnel has never been up to par to stop the run but if Barry can somehow make it work and set this defense up with 3rd and longs I expect big things.