Packers Huddle

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 14:55

I feel like the role of coaches gets overlooked w/r/t draft picks, not only for the task of coaching the player, but also in guiding the GM's pick-making.

So I don't know who to blame for Jackson not panning out. Gute made the pick, but I can't imagine he did without Pettine's express approval, if not a solid assurance that, yes, this guy is a better fit for us than the other guys on the board and he will pan out in our defense. And by all accounts, Jackson works hard at it, so it's not that.

I wonder what you do with him at this point: give him another year strictly at the boundary corner and hope that it 'clicks' -or- abandon that and move him to a Safety position where he may be a better fit, but have no real need for?

CB definitely is a top need next year, even if we bring back King (which I do want, within reason).

I think safety is a need. Espeically that we are now seeing Savage and Amos thrive in that box role...having depth there and another option at safety is always a great thing and I think we could definitely use it.

I also don't think it would happen because I believe they tried it bits and pieces and he sucked there too.

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:34

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 14:55

I feel like the role of coaches gets overlooked w/r/t draft picks, not only for the task of coaching the player, but also in guiding the GM's pick-making.

So I don't know who to blame for Jackson not panning out. Gute made the pick, but I can't imagine he did without Pettine's express approval, if not a solid assurance that, yes, this guy is a better fit for us than the other guys on the board and he will pan out in our defense. And by all accounts, Jackson works hard at it, so it's not that.

I wonder what you do with him at this point: give him another year strictly at the boundary corner and hope that it 'clicks' -or- abandon that and move him to a Safety position where he may be a better fit, but have no real need for?

CB definitely is a top need next year, even if we bring back King (which I do want, within reason).

I think safety is a need. Espeically that we are now seeing Savage and Amos thrive in that box role...having depth there and another option at safety is always a great thing and I think we could definitely use it.

I also don't think it would happen because I believe they tried it bits and pieces and he sucked there too.

Man, football related only, would have been amazing to add Earl Thomas a few weeks ago so he’d be fully up to speed come playoffs.

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:38

Man, football related only, would have been amazing to add Earl Thomas a few weeks ago so he’d be fully up to speed come playoffs.

why?

He's been cut twice this year and wasn't very effective when he played. He's old. He's not special anymore. I wanted him more than Amos, but I don't know what in the past 6 months makes anyone think he'd be a boost to a playoff team at this point.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:48

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:38

Man, football related only, would have been amazing to add Earl Thomas a few weeks ago so he’d be fully up to speed come playoffs.

why?

He's been cut twice this year and wasn't very effective when he played. He's old. He's not special anymore. I wanted him more than Amos, but I don't know what in the past 6 months makes anyone think he'd be a boost to a playoff team at this point.

?

He was really really good last year, from all accounts, on the field. How was he cut twice?

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 16:07

He was really really good last year, from all accounts, on the field. How was he cut twice?

By the Ravens and by the Texans? Am I wrong on that?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 16:27

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 16:07

He was really really good last year, from all accounts, on the field. How was he cut twice?

By the Ravens and by the Texans? Am I wrong on that?

Oh, I guess the Texans backed out on signing him because the players all hated him too much. Thought they brought him in and then released him, not worked him out, reported to be signing him, and then renegging do to backlash

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 14:55

So I don't know who to blame for Jackson not panning out.

You really shouldn't blame anybody- its simply how the draft works. You're trying to project how a 19 year old will do in a grown man's game and nobody has it figured out yet - every single team misses on half their picks. Who should we blame that the Sun comes up in the East ?
Nobody - because that's just part of life. This is no different. Gute and Pettine and Jackson all gave it their best, it hasn't worked out yet.

It happens all the time-
And despite that the Packers were still the best drafting team in the league from 2000- 2019, which includes the Jackson pick.
This chart shows total value acquired and the yearly average. AV= the Pro Football Reference metric to rate a players value

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU26vPPXgAA ... ame=small
.

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 14:55

I feel like the role of coaches gets overlooked w/r/t draft picks, not only for the task of coaching the player, but also in guiding the GM's pick-making.

So I don't know who to blame for Jackson not panning out. Gute made the pick, but I can't imagine he did without Pettine's express approval, if not a solid assurance that, yes, this guy is a better fit for us than the other guys on the board and he will pan out in our defense. And by all accounts, Jackson works hard at it, so it's not that.

Drafted by a first time GM for a new DC who hadn't played with any of the guys he was inheriting for a HC who is no longer here... there are a lot of moving parts in the story of Josh Jackson. Just didn't work.

NCF wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 17:09

Drafted by a first time GM for a new DC who hadn't played with any of the guys he was inheriting for a HC who is no longer here... there are a lot of moving parts in the story of Josh Jackson. Just didn't work.

I think the vast majority of people who think about such things feel that Josh Jackson is best fit for a boundary spot in a D that mostly plays Cover-3 and Cover-1, where he's either in a zone assisted by the sideline or in press man with safety help over the top.

We don't play that defense. We tried Jackson in our scheme and it's been underwhelming (though also not a disaster).

The question--now that we have an elite man corner in Jaire and a middle safety with the speed and range to cover the whole field like Savage--is whether we're going to keep our scheme similar and move on from Jackson or if we are going to look for a new DC and scheme, and if so, is it going to be something that fits Jackson and helps fill that CB slot or is it going to be something else he's mismatched for and we should move on anyway.

I am NOT saying that a middling player like Jackson should be the determining factor in those decisions. Just that we have seemingly the right pieces for more of an old Seahawks-style D, there are lots of former members of that coaching tree around the league, and if a move like that happens to be made, it might be the sort of thing that saves Jackson's career prospects.

BSA wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 16:41

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 14:55

So I don't know who to blame for Jackson not panning out.

You really shouldn't blame anybody- its simply how the draft works. You're trying to project how a 19 year old will do in a grown man's game and nobody has it figured out yet - every single team misses on half their picks. Who should we blame that the Sun comes up in the East ?
Nobody - because that's just part of life. This is no different. Gute and Pettine and Jackson all gave it their best, it hasn't worked out yet.

NEIN!! We are Packer fans, meaning somebody's gotta get whipped -- even the Sun is fair game!

In all seriousness, not with ya on that, but I value athletic traits more than most fans, so I think that draft busts due to athletic limitations (which I believe is probably the main reason Jackson has not been able to hack it) are pretty inexcusable, owing to the fact that the FO has enough information to foresee that outcome -- unlike other reasons why picks bust -- at the time they make the pick.

If you are going to draft someone in spite of athleticism issues, they had better be a perfect scheme-fit or you have a plan for them. Either way, they clearly thought he was not too athletically limited for what they wanted, so they misjudged the prospect or their needs/scheme -- at risk of sounding like one of "those" people, they are paid big bucks to know both of those things well.

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 18:10

Either way, they clearly thought he was not too athletically limited for what they wanted, so they misjudged the prospect or their needs/scheme -- at risk of sounding like one of "those" people, they are paid big bucks to know both of those things well.

Thanks for the response and I think we view his shortcomings differently
Jackson is athletic enough to play zone defense in the NFL and they thought they could teach him to play some man coverage techniques - despite his 4.56 speed. ( same speed as Richard Sherman)
Many CBs excel despite speed limitations, by becoming students of the game and mastering their technique ( Al Harris was another one)

But Jackson hasn't yet learned to trust his technique. Once Josh was on the run and looking at the back of the WR's jersey, he panicked and grabbed. That's gotta be a scary moment for a young CB, but ya need to push through it

If you look at all the dime packages Pettine uses, there's definitely a spot for a CB-S combo who can learn the techniques required. In an article from The Athletic, Pettine said he envisioned Jackson playing multiple roles ( This was in 2019 offseason)

Joe Whitt is awesome as a DB coach, but only had Jackson for one season. Jerry Gray is a fantastic teacher and has had Jackson for one season too. For whatever reason, Jackson just hasn't mastered his technique to the point that he trusts it... and can be trusted by the coaches. Its a damn shame, but I don't believe its an athleticism issue that could have/should have been identified at combine or pro day.
Conversely, 32 teams passed 256 times on both Tramon Williams and Sam Shields. Its an inexact science.
.

BSA wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 18:49

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 18:10

Either way, they clearly thought he was not too athletically limited for what they wanted, so they misjudged the prospect or their needs/scheme -- at risk of sounding like one of "those" people, they are paid big bucks to know both of those things well.

Thanks for the response and I think we view his shortcomings differently
Jackson is athletic enough to play zone defense in the NFL and they thought they could teach him to play some man coverage techniques - despite his 4.56 speed. ( same speed as Richard Sherman)
Many CBs excel despite speed limitations, by becoming students of the game and mastering their technique ( Al Harris was another one)

But Jackson hasn't yet learned to trust his technique. Once Josh was on the run and looking at the back of the WR's jersey, he panicked and grabbed. That's gotta be a scary moment for a young CB, but ya need to push through it
.

It's not just his 40, though, although the implied lack of deep/recovery speed is a concern. More troubling to me was how stiff he looked during position drills. You want a guy at his position to move better than he does, long speed or no.

Conversely, 32 teams passed 256 times on both Tramon Williams and Sam Shields. Its an inexact science.

Sam Shields had so much speed that he could easily make up for sloppy technique and all the times he got beat!

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:48

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 15:38

Man, football related only, would have been amazing to add Earl Thomas a few weeks ago so he’d be fully up to speed come playoffs.

why?

He's been cut twice this year and wasn't very effective when he played. He's old. He's not special anymore. I wanted him more than Amos, but I don't know what in the past 6 months makes anyone think he'd be a boost to a playoff team at this point.

When your teammates don't want you on the team (Ravens), or to sign you (Texans), there are some definite attitude issues.

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2020 21:01

It's not just his 40, though, although the implied lack of deep/recovery speed is a concern. More troubling to me was how stiff he looked during position drills. You want a guy at his position to move better than he does, long speed or no.

thx - and that does seem unusual given how much credence Gute appears to give SPARQ scores

This one comes from The Dope Sheet too- and its kind of a Big Deal for the Packers to finally be number 1

"This will be the 34th playoff appearance for the Packers, the most in NFL history
(Dallas has 33)."

Most Appearances, most Titles. Glad to finally tie those 2 together

from Andy Herman
The Lions are about to lose and move to 5-10.
This will be their 16th season since 1992 with double digit losses.

The Packers have had 2 in that timeframe.

Linsley activated.

BSA wrote: ↑

24 Dec 2020 16:55

This one comes from The Dope Sheet too- and its kind of a Big Deal for the Packers to finally be number 1

"This will be the 34th playoff appearance for the Packers, the most in NFL history
(Dallas has 33)."

Most Appearances, most Titles. Glad to finally tie those 2 together

That, and the fact we hold the edge over the Bears now (99 wins so far), is something worth remembering.

Brady has the Bucs in the playoffs for the first time in 13 seasons, NO MVP for you Tom Brady, you over the hill has been

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

26 Dec 2020 15:55

Linsley activated.

Elgton Jenkins pretty much let the cat out of the bag earlier this week saying he would be playing left guard this Sunday.

Very excited to see Linsley back in the fold.