Page 10 of 42
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 25 Sep 2023 18:16
by texas
Half Empty wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 08:59
texas wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023 23:24
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023 21:54
Plenty of proof that it is warranted.
Doubtful. Based on what I have seen come before him, I am content with sticking with him.
Anyone to second this?
Yeah I know. Another PH.com groupthink where everyone else is wrong except for me.
At some level the question is subjective, as in I would personally rather not risk getting a worse DC in order to try to get a better one, and maybe some others would take that gamble, but on the other hand, the dislike for Barry here is also objectively wrong. He's better than anything we've had since pre-MM.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 25 Sep 2023 18:19
by texas
GJPackerBacker wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 12:16
The first seven quarters of this year were pretty good. That soft D by our DBs late in the ATL game is inexcusable and frustrating to watch.
I believe that the D can perform at a high level, maybe in part it’s about being 100% healthy.
Would be nice if this D could achieve the domination that I believe it can. Will be fun to watch!!
I don't know that I would disagree that it was inexcusable, but the fact is that the writing was on the wall based on ATL's repeated hammering of us early with their run game, and especially when the offense decided to go 3 and out repeatedly when it mattered most.
It's just a fact that defense breaks down the longer they stay on the field, and while some of that is their own fault for not getting off the field in the first place, some of it also is on the offense, and some of it is reasonable to expect based on the opponent (who in this case was about as bad of a draw for this type of thing as we could get).
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 25 Sep 2023 18:41
by YoHoChecko
I don't have a strong opinion of Barry. I get keeping him this year after they clicked late in the season last year; but I get being frustrated because last year was such a disappointment after they had clicked late in the year the previous year.
A lot of it is stylistic. We don't much like the style he plays, though clearly the team picked him specifically knowing his schematic background. I don't think his scheme fits our personnel all that well because our CBs are built to match up more so than think (even Rasul--I dunno why people say he's better in zone; he just can't man up on ultra quick speed merchants.)
This season the D has performed statistically well and had some big moments--short yardage stops and well-timed sacks and such. Not to mention we're crushing it in pressures and pressure rates.
But it's also about who is available. When you see the guy who went from Denver to the Panthers after Payton decided not to keep him because he's a dope... you think "oh I'd like that." Schwartz is absolutely crushing people in Cleveland and was just hired this year.
If Saleh gets fired by the Jets and is available as a coordinator, you have to wonder if best friends would want to work together again--and I really like his defensive acumen. I think he'll keep his job, but I'm just saying I'm not stressing to replace anyone, but I would for the right opportunities. And I probably would have taken an opportunity last year, particularly for Ejiro Evero
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 25 Sep 2023 19:32
by texas
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023 18:41
I don't have a strong opinion of Barry. I get keeping him this year after they clicked late in the season last year; but I get being frustrated because last year was such a disappointment after they had clicked late in the year the previous year.
A lot of it is stylistic. We don't much like the style he plays, though clearly the team picked him specifically knowing his schematic background. I don't think his scheme fits our personnel all that well because our CBs are built to match up more so than think (even Rasul--I dunno why people say he's better in zone; he just can't man up on ultra quick speed merchants.)
This season the D has performed statistically well and had some big moments--short yardage stops and well-timed sacks and such. Not to mention we're crushing it in pressures and pressure rates.
But it's also about who is available. When you see the guy who went from Denver to the Panthers after Payton decided not to keep him because he's a dope... you think "oh I'd like that." Schwartz is absolutely crushing people in Cleveland and was just hired this year.
If Saleh gets fired by the Jets and is available as a coordinator, you have to wonder if best friends would want to work together again--and I really like his defensive acumen. I think he'll keep his job, but I'm just saying I'm not stressing to replace anyone, but I would for the right opportunities. And I probably would have taken an opportunity last year, particularly for Ejiro Evero
Yeah, and this is essentially the crux of my opinion. Are there better DCs? Sure. But what are the odds that we would get one, who would also click with our personnel and FO and LaFleur and etc etc etc? I'm not sure, but I have seen enough DCs run through here to know that usually what we see ends up being worse than Barry has been.
I also don't think you can necessarily just look at a guy doing something somewhere else and know that he will perform at the same level here (like any other position in football, coaching or otherwise). I think guys like Spagnuolo and Wade Phillips generally have a good track record among multiple gigs, but I want to say even they have had bad years.
I was on the fence with Pettine until King got burned before halftime of the NFCCG. I loved Dom until Kaep torched us at which point I wanted him gone. With Barry I am not on the fence, and I am not even really all that near the fence. At some point I should look back at what [mention]Pckfn23[/mention] mentioned, because there could be things I am missing and I haven't gotten into the finer details, but as far as eye test and broader points go, his units have performed good enough, easily, given circumstances.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 02:35
by TheSkeptic
Gave up 10 points on the road against an average or maybe better than average team. Nuff said.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 05:42
by musclestang
The Saints do have a good defense. Their offense? They were missing Kamara, the engine of that thing, and they kind of suck on offense regardless. While i'm happy for the defense, until they can do this to a team with a decent offense, it's pretty meaningless to me. Individually they have talent to be a top 5 shut down defense. Those guys perform against good offenses. Ours seems to rough up below average and get run over by above average and leave our average somewhere near the middle. It's not good enough.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 07:00
by Yoop
texas wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023 18:16
Half Empty wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 08:59
texas wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023 23:24
Doubtful. Based on what I have seen come before him, I am content with sticking with him.
Anyone to second this?
Yeah I know. Another PH.com groupthink where everyone else is wrong except for me.
At some level the question is subjective, as in I would personally rather not risk getting a worse DC in order to try to get a better one, and maybe some others would take that gamble, but on the other hand, the dislike for Barry here is also objectively wrong. He's better than anything we've had since pre-MM.
when Barry has a top 5 defense then just maybe we'll agree with you
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 07:11
by APB
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023 02:35
Gave up 10 points on the road against an average or maybe better than average team. Nuff said.
Couple things:
- The Saints game was at home
- Saints offense is below average, more so with the starting QB injured
But yeah, we all have our own judgments. Anywho...
I think the picture becomes significantly clearer this week against Detroit. Their offense is formidable and should provide the desired barometer we're all trying to measure against. Of course, should Jaire sit again and the defense flounder, we'll be right back here providing our subjective "yeah but" arguments all over again.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 09:06
by Half Empty
texas wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023 18:16
Half Empty wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 08:59
texas wrote: ↑22 Sep 2023 23:24
Doubtful. Based on what I have seen come before him, I am content with sticking with him.
Anyone to second this?
Yeah I know. Another PH.com groupthink where everyone else is wrong except for me.
At some level
the question is subjective, as in I would personally rather not risk getting a worse DC in order to try to get a better one, and maybe some others would take that gamble, but on the other hand, the dislike for Barry here
is also objectively wrong. He's better than anything we've had since pre-MM.
Looks a little inconsistent. No doubt about being subjective, but, if so, what's wrong with the majority of folks disliking his coaching?
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 11:35
by APB
Does anybody here watch - or know of - somebody who does the film breakdown for the defense like JT O'Sullivan does for the offense?
Please share if you do.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 26 Sep 2023 13:07
by RingoCStarrQB
This rendition of the defense far eclipses the defense that contributed to the loss to the Lions that I witnessed last January. Plus now we have multiple viable receiving weapons compared to 2022. And finally the drama king is gone....finally freakin effen gone. Lions fans will be out in full force......but nonetheless the Packers will emerge ruling the North.
God Bless God, family, the Green Bay Packers, Jordan Love, the O and D lines, the DBs and LBs, the kicking game, the OC, Musgrave, the returners and the running game. I'm sensing a statement game outta 1265 and 1919. Blue 58, 3 19 Hut!!
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:02
by LombardiTime
The Packer defense is currently number 10 in scoring defense, just ahead of the LIons, giving up 18.7 points per game.
Again barring fluke special teams, offensive turnovers, etc., there is no reason for the D to give up >17 tomorrow night.
Come on Joe, get her done.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:33
by Scott4Pack
APB wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023 11:35
Does anybody here watch - or know of - somebody who does the film breakdown for the defense like JT O'Sullivan does for the offense?
Please share if you do.
Andy Herman can delve into the defense specifically at times. He doesn't focus exclusively on the D, such as like JT does on the QBs. But when he wants to highlight specific things, he does just fine.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:37
by Pckfn23
APB wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023 11:35
Does anybody here watch - or know of - somebody who does the film breakdown for the defense like JT O'Sullivan does for the offense?
Please share if you do.
It would be nice to get the ALL-22 for free then we could all go over certain plays.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:48
by APB
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:37
APB wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023 11:35
Does anybody here watch - or know of - somebody who does the film breakdown for the defense like JT O'Sullivan does for the offense?
Please share if you do.
It would be nice to get the ALL-22 for free then we could all go over certain plays.
How much is it? Do you know off the top of your head?
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:52
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:48
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:37
APB wrote: ↑26 Sep 2023 11:35
Does anybody here watch - or know of - somebody who does the film breakdown for the defense like JT O'Sullivan does for the offense?
Please share if you do.
It would be nice to get the ALL-22 for free then we could all go over certain plays.
How much is it? Do you know off the top of your head?
you can get nfl plus for like $80 for the season.
Comes with red zone, radio broadcasts of all games live, and full replays, all 22, and condensed versions of games after they air.
that price was too high for me by itself, but you can have 3 people watching at same time and logged in, so i just split it three ways with a couple pals.
worth that cost to me
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:59
by Pckfn23
Wonder if it is possible to screen grab the ALL-22, if not, it wouldn't be worth it.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:59
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:52
APB wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:48
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:37
It would be nice to get the ALL-22 for free then we could all go over certain plays.
How much is it? Do you know off the top of your head?
you can get nfl plus for like $80 for the season.
Comes with red zone, radio broadcasts of all games live, and full replays, all 22, and condensed versions of games after they air.
that price was too high for me by itself, but you can have 3 people watching at same time and logged in, so i just split it three ways with a couple pals.
worth that cost to me
is there any way the forum members could chip in and have access to nfl-plus and the all-22 right here whenever we wanted to watch?
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 12:00
by APB
Drj820 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:52
APB wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:48
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:37
It would be nice to get the ALL-22 for free then we could all go over certain plays.
How much is it? Do you know off the top of your head?
you can get nfl plus for like $80 for the season.
Comes with red zone, radio broadcasts of all games live, and full replays, all 22, and condensed versions of games after they air.
that price was too high for me by itself, but you can have 3 people watching at same time and logged in, so i just split it three ways with a couple pals.
worth that cost to me
I just did a search for
NFL+ subscription. It's now $14.99/mo or $99.99/season. Too much to go it alone but wouldn't mind going in with a group.
Is 3 people the max you can have on the account?
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 27 Sep 2023 12:04
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 12:00
Drj820 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:52
APB wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 11:48
How much is it? Do you know off the top of your head?
you can get nfl plus for like $80 for the season.
Comes with red zone, radio broadcasts of all games live, and full replays, all 22, and condensed versions of games after they air.
that price was too high for me by itself, but you can have 3 people watching at same time and logged in, so i just split it three ways with a couple pals.
worth that cost to me
I just did a search for
NFL+ subscription. It's now $14.99/mo or $99.99/season. Too much to go it alone but wouldn't mind going in with a group.
Is 3 people the max you can have on the account?
dang, maybe i got in on a promo or something. mine was just a one time $80 for the season.
I am splitting with two others already. I am not sure if it is 3 logins, or three screens watching at once. I think it is logins.