The Way a Packers Forum Should Be
https://packers-huddle.com/phpBB/
I was getting really excited during drive 2. We were crushing them.
I don't think anyone is disputing that, during the regular season, Rodgers is as good as or better than Brady. It's just that in the post season, Brady is better at winning games.Raptorman wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 19:45The average defense Brady had in the years he won his Super Bowls was 17.9 ppg during the year. If you add up all the games during that time period of all the teams and see what the winning percentage is for all teams, QB doesn't matter, it's right around 85%. I know, I did the math on this about 2 years ago. If you only have to score 18 points a game win, it makes winning a hell of a lot easier. Do you want to beat Brady? Score more than 34 points a game. He doesn't do so well when the other team scores a lot of points. In Tampa, Brady has 13 games where the other team scored 27+ points. He's 6-7 in those games. Under 27 he's 18-2 In the same time Period, Rodgers has had 12 games over 27 and is 6-6. Under 27 he's 20-0. Remember how everyone has always said he feasted on a weak division in NE? He was 87-21 against division opponents in his time in NE. FWIW, that is 1/3 of all his wins. For some reason, the Saints have is number. He is 3-5 against them.
The thing your math leaves out Raptor is that offense helps the defense. Put up 50 points quickly, and the defense will probably give up more points because the high scoring team has kicked off to the opposing team so much.dsr wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 07:03I don't think anyone is disputing that, during the regular season, Rodgers is as good as or better than Brady. It's just that in the post season, Brady is better at winning games.Raptorman wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 19:45The average defense Brady had in the years he won his Super Bowls was 17.9 ppg during the year. If you add up all the games during that time period of all the teams and see what the winning percentage is for all teams, QB doesn't matter, it's right around 85%. I know, I did the math on this about 2 years ago. If you only have to score 18 points a game win, it makes winning a hell of a lot easier. Do you want to beat Brady? Score more than 34 points a game. He doesn't do so well when the other team scores a lot of points. In Tampa, Brady has 13 games where the other team scored 27+ points. He's 6-7 in those games. Under 27 he's 18-2 In the same time Period, Rodgers has had 12 games over 27 and is 6-6. Under 27 he's 20-0. Remember how everyone has always said he feasted on a weak division in NE? He was 87-21 against division opponents in his time in NE. FWIW, that is 1/3 of all his wins. For some reason, the Saints have is number. He is 3-5 against them.
I think one thing working in the Packers favor regarding potential trade compensation is that two of the widely speculated interested teams reside in the same division and both compete against teams within their division with young, gifted QBs. The Raiders and Broncos could both be argued as "on the cusp" of competing if only they had a quality QB/WR tandem to put them over the top. Both teams have cap space to lure both Rodgers and Adams.go pak go wrote:Sports Illustrated and Matt Schneideman are reporting potential compensation for Rodgers and Adams is 4 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders and a player.
I don't think it's that much, but I do expect heavy compensation.
I mean "technically" Rodgers and Adams going to DEN would make them instant contenders. And that is tough to turn down
bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 17:21The other guy last year was Brady ... what is he? A guy who did enough to win last year and came back from three TDs down this year to tie.Half Empty wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 15:58Maybe so, but his bar isn't the other guy, it's GOAT. And my measuring stick is doing enough to win, especially when that's well below your standard.
How much can a qb do in freezing, snowing, windy weather with one receiver and bad protection. Apparently, it was possible for the other guy this year, given the game-winning drive. Need we go back to check out the 3-and-outs?
The truth is special teams lost the game and the team knew it was a liability all year. Nobody is going to deny that ST play was atrocious, and had been. Just like 2014, though, there are a number of things that could have changed the outcome, and better output from the offense is one of them. ST HELPED to lose it, but a maybe-GOAT QB should have been able to do more. If I told you that SF would be going into the 4th quarter with 3 points, how much of the farm would you have bet on the Pack?
It's BECAUSE this is a Packer forum that you may be in the minority. We want our team to win, and the bottom line is that Brady has done that more and better for his team(s).bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 18:47AgreeRaptorman wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 18:33Well, he's a guy who lost this year to a worse defense than he had. He's also a guy who has never won anything without a top defense. Brady has never won a Super Bowl with a defense ranked lower than 8th in ppg during the year. Matter of fact, he's only ever had a Defense ranked lower than 10th three times(15,17,17) in his career. But yeah, it's all him.
Compare Brady's wins and losses to how many points he has had to score to win to Rodgers, and then come back and tell us who you think is the better QB. Given the same defenses and offenses, I'd take Rodgers over Brady.
I think we are in the minority here though despite it being a packer s forum, which is insane.
Can we save this for later, should you contend at some point that they don't?
Plus, as has been discussed, the stat that some of us are looking at is big wins.Yup. When the excuses keep piling up for Rodgers:Half Empty wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 09:12bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 17:21The other guy last year was Brady ... what is he? A guy who did enough to win last year and came back from three TDs down this year to tie.Half Empty wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 15:58
Maybe so, but his bar isn't the other guy, it's GOAT. And my measuring stick is doing enough to win, especially when that's well below your standard.
How much can a qb do in freezing, snowing, windy weather with one receiver and bad protection. Apparently, it was possible for the other guy this year, given the game-winning drive. Need we go back to check out the 3-and-outs?
The truth is special teams lost the game and the team knew it was a liability all year. Nobody is going to deny that ST play was atrocious, and had been. Just like 2014, though, there are a number of things that could have changed the outcome, and better output from the offense is one of them. ST HELPED to lose it, but a maybe-GOAT QB should have been able to do more. If I told you that SF would be going into the 4th quarter with 3 points, how much of the farm would you have bet on the Pack?
Yeah, that's the story that's always told. And the one place you would see that is in time of possession. Yet the Patriots don't have any great TOP over other teams. BTW, last year. 2020, Brady beat one team with a winning record during the regular season. Something Cousins is always criticized for. Not beating winning teams.Drj820 wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 07:13The thing your math leaves out Raptor is that offense helps the defense. Put up 50 points quickly, and the defense will probably give up more points because the high scoring team has kicked off to the opposing team so much.dsr wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 07:03I don't think anyone is disputing that, during the regular season, Rodgers is as good as or better than Brady. It's just that in the post season, Brady is better at winning games.Raptorman wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 19:45The average defense Brady had in the years he won his Super Bowls was 17.9 ppg during the year. If you add up all the games during that time period of all the teams and see what the winning percentage is for all teams, QB doesn't matter, it's right around 85%. I know, I did the math on this about 2 years ago. If you only have to score 18 points a game win, it makes winning a hell of a lot easier. Do you want to beat Brady? Score more than 34 points a game. He doesn't do so well when the other team scores a lot of points. In Tampa, Brady has 13 games where the other team scored 27+ points. He's 6-7 in those games. Under 27 he's 18-2 In the same time Period, Rodgers has had 12 games over 27 and is 6-6. Under 27 he's 20-0. Remember how everyone has always said he feasted on a weak division in NE? He was 87-21 against division opponents in his time in NE. FWIW, that is 1/3 of all his wins. For some reason, the Saints have is number. He is 3-5 against them.
Be an awful offense and go three and out all game and your own defense will give up more points as the opposing team starts with good field position and has more chances to score.
But...limit 3 and outs, run the ball, throw short passes to wes welker and julian edelmen for 2 decades, control the clock, play near perfect special teams and pin the opposing team back in awful field position....and you set your own defense up very well to not give up many points.
Trust me, i agree that Bill complemented Brady. I agree that Brady does not win so much elsewhere. He always had perfect STs and a good D. The Pats supplied Brady with everything he would need to win...but he still went out there and did it. Brady is a winner. He holds himself and his teammates to such a standard that everyone is elevated. Thats exactly what he did in Tampa. Tampa was a talented mess with fast and loose Jameis and Arians. Arians isnt known to have a disciplined team. I remember mid year last year brady screaming his head off at the OL for a false start on national tv. And soon enough, that crap stopped. Brady doesnt allow other people to sabotage his dreams.
Rodgers doesnt seem to inspire that same greatness when the stakes are the highest.
It isn't fair because it can't be tested.Acrobat wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:09I think it would be a fair statement to say that if you put Brady on the same Packers teams from 2008 to Present, the Packers would have at least 1 more Super Bowl victory. The stats may not have looked as impressive. More INT's would have been thrown, but the guy would have showed up when it mattered most. He probably would have put the dagger in Seattle in 2014, at minimum.
Also, I hate saying this because I don't like Brady at all.
Look, I'm not looking to make scientific experiments where we have Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady switch bodies and then go back in time. I don't have the capability to do so. But there's also a thing called "common sense".bud fox wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:28It isn't fair because it can't be tested.Acrobat wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:09I think it would be a fair statement to say that if you put Brady on the same Packers teams from 2008 to Present, the Packers would have at least 1 more Super Bowl victory. The stats may not have looked as impressive. More INT's would have been thrown, but the guy would have showed up when it mattered most. He probably would have put the dagger in Seattle in 2014, at minimum.
Also, I hate saying this because I don't like Brady at all.
If Rodgers played on Brady teams he would have 10 super bowls.
It can't be tested
Both teams had 5 3 and outs but Packers had 1 more off penalty.Half Empty wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 09:12bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 17:21The other guy last year was Brady ... what is he? A guy who did enough to win last year and came back from three TDs down this year to tie.Half Empty wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 15:58
Maybe so, but his bar isn't the other guy, it's GOAT. And my measuring stick is doing enough to win, especially when that's well below your standard.
How much can a qb do in freezing, snowing, windy weather with one receiver and bad protection. Apparently, it was possible for the other guy this year, given the game-winning drive. Need we go back to check out the 3-and-outs?
The truth is special teams lost the game and the team knew it was a liability all year. Nobody is going to deny that ST play was atrocious, and had been. Just like 2014, though, there are a number of things that could have changed the outcome, and better output from the offense is one of them. ST HELPED to lose it, but a maybe-GOAT QB should have been able to do more. If I told you that SF would be going into the 4th quarter with 3 points, how much of the farm would you have bet on the Pack?
Agree - my common sense says the best qb over that period is better. Your common sense is the guy who won with pats and bucs is better because his team won.Acrobat wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:31Look, I'm not looking to make scientific experiments where we have Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady switch bodies and then go back in time. I don't have the capability to do so. But there's also a thing called "common sense".bud fox wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:28It isn't fair because it can't be tested.Acrobat wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:09I think it would be a fair statement to say that if you put Brady on the same Packers teams from 2008 to Present, the Packers would have at least 1 more Super Bowl victory. The stats may not have looked as impressive. More INT's would have been thrown, but the guy would have showed up when it mattered most. He probably would have put the dagger in Seattle in 2014, at minimum.
Also, I hate saying this because I don't like Brady at all.
If Rodgers played on Brady teams he would have 10 super bowls.
It can't be tested
Do you really think that Rodgers on the Pats would have come down from 28-3? Or that the same Rodgers that had better weapons on the 2014 Packers team would have put up 28 on the Seahawks in the Super Bowl?bud fox wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:43Agree - my common sense says the best qb over that period is better. Your common sense is the guy who won with pats and bucs is better because his team won.
That's fine.
OK, one more and then I'm done since your reply to Acrobat pretty well sums it up - you feel one way, he and I feel differently. Can't help noting, though, that (obviouslybud fox wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:36Both teams had 5 3 and outs but Packers had 1 more off penalty.Half Empty wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 09:12bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 17:21
The other guy last year was Brady ... what is he? A guy who did enough to win last year and came back from three TDs down this year to tie.
How much can a qb do in freezing, snowing, windy weather with one receiver and bad protection. Apparently, it was possible for the other guy this year, given the game-winning drive. Need we go back to check out the 3-and-outs?
The truth is special teams lost the game and the team knew it was a liability all year. Nobody is going to deny that ST play was atrocious, and had been. Just like 2014, though, there are a number of things that could have changed the outcome, and better output from the offense is one of them. ST HELPED to lose it, but a maybe-GOAT QB should have been able to do more. If I told you that SF would be going into the 4th quarter with 3 points, how much of the farm would you have bet on the Pack?
Ultimately the off and def did enough - special teams got outplayed and it was the difference. Well a GOAT should do more? Not in freezing, windy, snowy weather against a top def and a weak oline.
) the offense didn't do enough. Regardless of the defense or ST play, if the opposition has 3 points going into the 4th quarter and AR plays the whole game, we're winning (or should). Also, don't see that weather has any effect unless it different for the other guys.So when it's Jordan Love who effectively put up 13 points vs the Chiefs, he didn't do enough.bud fox wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 13:36Both teams had 5 3 and outs but Packers had 1 more off penalty.Half Empty wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022 09:12bud fox wrote: ↑25 Jan 2022 17:21
The other guy last year was Brady ... what is he? A guy who did enough to win last year and came back from three TDs down this year to tie.
How much can a qb do in freezing, snowing, windy weather with one receiver and bad protection. Apparently, it was possible for the other guy this year, given the game-winning drive. Need we go back to check out the 3-and-outs?
The truth is special teams lost the game and the team knew it was a liability all year. Nobody is going to deny that ST play was atrocious, and had been. Just like 2014, though, there are a number of things that could have changed the outcome, and better output from the offense is one of them. ST HELPED to lose it, but a maybe-GOAT QB should have been able to do more. If I told you that SF would be going into the 4th quarter with 3 points, how much of the farm would you have bet on the Pack?
Ultimately the off and def did enough - special teams got outplayed and it was the difference. Well a GOAT should do more? Not in freezing, windy, snowy weather against a top def and a weak oline.
