Packers Huddle

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2021 08:29

I think the best part of Davante’s game is in his feet. I’ve heard that he does a LOT of footwork compared to others. But look at his route-running, his jukes, his stutter steps, etc. He’s always setting up something. It gives him more separation, even against double-teams, than we’ve hardly ever seen.

Every commentator doing our games marvel at his footwork and how he gets open and jukes defenders without using his hands.

The myth: Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a great supporting cast.

Rodgers is an unquestioned superstar -- a guaranteed Hall of Famer and the likely 2020 MVP winner in the middle of one of his best seasons. But the narrative around him seems to be that he could somehow be even better if the Packers would build a better team around him. This chorus grew louder than ever this offseason, after Green Bay took quarterback Jordan Love in the first round of a draft loaded with wide receiver talent. And now, part of the case for Rodgers over Patrick Mahomes for MVP seems to be that he's doing what he's doing without help.

Why it's wrong: So many reasons. The Packers have actually built a pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers. Davante Adams has been nothing less than the best wide receiver in the league this season, and Aaron Jones has turned into one of the most reliable running backs in the league. The Packers' offensive line ranks first in pass block win rate and run block win rate. Rodgers' receivers lead the league in average yards of separation and average maximum speed on catches. Second-year head coach and playcaller Matt LaFleur is helping Rodgers with schemes that rely heavily on pre-snap motion and play-action. Green Bay is running play-action on 32% of its plays -- the highest such figure in Rodgers' career.


If you want to say Rodgers is having a better year than Mahomes, fine. But the idea that he's carrying the Packers by himself just isn't supported by facts.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/ ... ous-ravens

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 20:25

The myth: Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a great supporting cast.

Rodgers is an unquestioned superstar -- a guaranteed Hall of Famer and the likely 2020 MVP winner in the middle of one of his best seasons. But the narrative around him seems to be that he could somehow be even better if the Packers would build a better team around him. This chorus grew louder than ever this offseason, after Green Bay took quarterback Jordan Love in the first round of a draft loaded with wide receiver talent. And now, part of the case for Rodgers over Patrick Mahomes for MVP seems to be that he's doing what he's doing without help.

Why it's wrong: So many reasons. The Packers have actually built a pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers. Davante Adams has been nothing less than the best wide receiver in the league this season, and Aaron Jones has turned into one of the most reliable running backs in the league. The Packers' offensive line ranks first in pass block win rate and run block win rate. Rodgers' receivers lead the league in average yards of separation and average maximum speed on catches. Second-year head coach and playcaller Matt LaFleur is helping Rodgers with schemes that rely heavily on pre-snap motion and play-action. Green Bay is running play-action on 32% of its plays -- the highest such figure in Rodgers' career.


If you want to say Rodgers is having a better year than Mahomes, fine. But the idea that he's carrying the Packers by himself just isn't supported by facts.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/ ... ous-ravens

"pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers" is a great way of saying it.

Yoop makes it seem the passing game is only about having superior passing targets with his "trade anything for Jefferson" -obsession.

But he has been proven dead wrong this year. Even if Jefferson is the ORoY. Yes, [mention]Yoop[/mention] . You were just simply wrong. We should not have traded our future for him for immediate impact, because we already can do all we need on O.

There is more to building a great O than just having multiple superior passing targets (that's MM scheme), and LaFleur and AR have schooled the entire league at that.

LaFreur's scheme of threatening outside and inside runs, sweeps and screens plus play action passes on every early down play is brilliant. Especially with a QB who can read defenses. RBs as passing targets and threats? Done. Try and blitz? We can screen or go deep. Misdirection and rare passes to blocking TEs? In the plan. Spread them out? Can do.

A great depth Oline combined with a wizard QB, it's here. On 3rd downs, multiplicity of passing routes, picks, even runs. Keep 'em guessing, even when it's usually Adams who just beats 'em when you scheme him 1-1. Then you have the surprisingly great Tonyan. You have the 50/50 MVS, who will get big yardage if you fail the dice roll. If the D forgets someone, or tries to play zone, AR will find the open rare stats guy.

AR is getting SO much help from the Oline, the running game and the scheme. And he has Adams. That's not all-time supporting cast by any means. But with a fine coach, it's working.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 21:37

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 20:25

The myth: Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a great supporting cast.

Rodgers is an unquestioned superstar -- a guaranteed Hall of Famer and the likely 2020 MVP winner in the middle of one of his best seasons. But the narrative around him seems to be that he could somehow be even better if the Packers would build a better team around him. This chorus grew louder than ever this offseason, after Green Bay took quarterback Jordan Love in the first round of a draft loaded with wide receiver talent. And now, part of the case for Rodgers over Patrick Mahomes for MVP seems to be that he's doing what he's doing without help.

Why it's wrong: So many reasons. The Packers have actually built a pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers. Davante Adams has been nothing less than the best wide receiver in the league this season, and Aaron Jones has turned into one of the most reliable running backs in the league. The Packers' offensive line ranks first in pass block win rate and run block win rate. Rodgers' receivers lead the league in average yards of separation and average maximum speed on catches. Second-year head coach and playcaller Matt LaFleur is helping Rodgers with schemes that rely heavily on pre-snap motion and play-action. Green Bay is running play-action on 32% of its plays -- the highest such figure in Rodgers' career.


If you want to say Rodgers is having a better year than Mahomes, fine. But the idea that he's carrying the Packers by himself just isn't supported by facts.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/ ... ous-ravens

"pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers" is a great way of saying it.

Yoop makes it seem the passing game is only about having superior passing targets with his "trade anything for Jefferson" -obsession.

But he has been proven dead wrong this year. Even if Jefferson is the ORoY. Yes, @Yoop . You were just simply wrong. We should not have traded our future for him for immediate impact, because we already can do all we need on O.

There is more to building a great O than just having multiple superior passing targets (that's MM scheme), and LaFleur and AR have schooled the entire league at that.

LaFreur's scheme of threatening outside and inside runs, sweeps and screens plus play action passes on every early down play is brilliant. Especially with a QB who can read defenses. RBs as passing targets and threats? Done. Try and blitz? We can screen or go deep. Misdirection and rare passes to blocking TEs? In the plan. Spread them out? Can do.

A great depth Oline combined with a wizard QB, it's here. On 3rd downs, multiplicity of passing routes, picks, even runs. Keep 'em guessing, even when it's usually Adams who just beats 'em when you scheme him 1-1. Then you have the surprisingly great Tonyan. You have the 50/50 MVS, who will get big yardage if you fail the dice roll. If the D forgets someone, or tries to play zone, AR will find the open rare stats guy.

AR is getting SO much help from the Oline, the running game and the scheme. And he has Adams. That's not all-time supporting cast by any means. But with a fine coach, it's working.

you know what they say about opinions our #2 has a drop rate of 50%, JJ just broke the single season record for rookie WR's, gets open as much as Adams, in fact there stats are almost identical, don't quit your day job

seriously, every team we lost to, had 1. good pass rush, 2. fast ILB's and 3. good coverage, thats what we will face in the playoffs, and we couldn't get the run game going well enough for Lafluer to stick with it (partially his fault for not sticking with it more) and our receivers could not clear on schedule, hopefully we have that solved.

and we are going to have to find a replacement for Adams, and the rest eventually, Jefferson ( or another) still makes a lot more sense to me then drafting a clip board holder.

from twitter

Packers have finished 13-3 for the past two seasons, but the difference in point differential is staggering.

2019: +63
2020: +140

2019: 376 points scored, 313 allowed
2020: 509 points scored, 369 allowed

2020 defense is giving up 3.5 pts more per game
2020 offense is scoring 8.13 more pts per game

Last year I thought Amos didn't receive nearly enough accolades. From his first game here, it was clear that he was not a typical Packers tackler (in that he actually could tackle). People talk about the Smith bros last year being huge signings, and they were, but it really was all 3 of them. Amos iirc was rated as the most reliable safety in the league coming in, or something like that. Not a lot of flash but just solid all around. Top 5 safety imo.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 20:25

The myth: Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a great supporting cast.

Rodgers is an unquestioned superstar -- a guaranteed Hall of Famer and the likely 2020 MVP winner in the middle of one of his best seasons. But the narrative around him seems to be that he could somehow be even better if the Packers would build a better team around him. This chorus grew louder than ever this offseason, after Green Bay took quarterback Jordan Love in the first round of a draft loaded with wide receiver talent. And now, part of the case for Rodgers over Patrick Mahomes for MVP seems to be that he's doing what he's doing without help.

Why it's wrong: So many reasons. The Packers have actually built a pretty awesome infrastructure around Rodgers. Davante Adams has been nothing less than the best wide receiver in the league this season, and Aaron Jones has turned into one of the most reliable running backs in the league. The Packers' offensive line ranks first in pass block win rate and run block win rate. Rodgers' receivers lead the league in average yards of separation and average maximum speed on catches. Second-year head coach and playcaller Matt LaFleur is helping Rodgers with schemes that rely heavily on pre-snap motion and play-action. Green Bay is running play-action on 32% of its plays -- the highest such figure in Rodgers' career.


If you want to say Rodgers is having a better year than Mahomes, fine. But the idea that he's carrying the Packers by himself just isn't supported by facts.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/ ... ous-ravens

The problem with this article is that it seems to dismiss how much impact Rodgers has on the success of those around him. I do not feel that the Packers have little talent at receiver or other areas on offense, I believe they absolutely do. However, the writer's supposition comes across as sounding as if Rodgers isn't as talented as many say. I think the offensive scheme, good OL, good RBs and Rodgers have helped make the WRs other than Adams better than they might be on other teams. The sum is usually greater than the individual parts.

If Rodgers is the MVP, he should make them better. While the WR position is not best in the league, it sure isn't bereft of talent outside of Adams.

The entire point is that there is not lack of talent on the Packer offense.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 06:54

If Rodgers is the MVP, he should make them better. While the WR position is not best in the league, it sure isn't bereft of talent outside of Adams.

The entire point is that there is not lack of talent on the Packer offense.

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds, and the rest have less, and before we blame that on the Rodgers and Adams connection rate, we should consider the few games when Adams was out or blanketed, what bailed those situations out was Jones, and he couldn't get it done on 3 occasions, and neither could these other receivers

hey I know I'am biased, JJ was on the top of my draft lists as a player we may have had a reasonable chance to draft, and we did, cept Guty decided not to, and I admit that it was impossible for anyone to know that JJ would become who he is this season, but consider this, even with half his yards and receptions he'd still be our #2.

Adams and JJ would eventually (maybe not this year) become what Nelson and Cobb where in 2014 or even better, any time you can match up that kind of production with 2 WR's you should do that, I get that most seem intent on defending Guty, but that is a agenda I can not entertain.

lis, I hope your right and these receivers carry there weight in the play offs.

I get that most seem intent on defending Guty, but that is a agenda I can not entertain.

That’s not the pushback I’m seeing in this continued exercise. The pushback I continue to see against this Jefferson narrative you’re obsessed with is HE WAS NOT AVAILABLE at our pick. He was not REASONABLY available via trade-up, either. The secondary points being made about talent around AR are just that. The MAIN POINT people continue to make regarding your Jefferson obsession is the (factually accurate) narrative you continue to ignore.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 06:54

If Rodgers is the MVP, he should make them better. While the WR position is not best in the league, it sure isn't bereft of talent outside of Adams.

The entire point is that there is not lack of talent on the Packer offense.

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 06:54

If Rodgers is the MVP, he should make them better. While the WR position is not best in the league, it sure isn't bereft of talent outside of Adams.

The entire point is that there is not lack of talent on the Packer offense.

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

I do wonder how much Lazard's injury is impacting him this year. He just hasn't done much, at least from a pass catcher standpoint, since his return. And with the core injuries taking away Jennings in 2012, Tonyan in 2019, I wonder if we can hope/expect a higher output from Lazard in 2021.

Although I do have a beef to pick with Rodgers. He had Lazard WIDE OPEN on that 4th down play on the first series on Sunday and Rodgers STARED down Adams the whole play. Lazard was wide open because the corner blitzed. It was a gimme first down and instead Rodgers went for a lower percentage TD ball to Adams who fortunately got a penalty called on him.

Those are the things that are still frustrating to watch. Honestly they are on par of the frustration level as watching MVS drop an easy TD.

APB wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:20

I get that most seem intent on defending Guty, but that is a agenda I can not entertain.

That’s not the pushback I’m seeing in this continued exercise. The pushback I continue to see against this Jefferson narrative you’re obsessed with is HE WAS NOT AVAILABLE at our pick. He was not REASONABLY available via trade-up, either. The secondary points being made about talent around AR are just that. The MAIN POINT people continue to make regarding your Jefferson obsession is the (factually accurate) narrative you continue to ignore.

why do you and others continue this inane idea that " He was not REASONABLY available via trade-up, either." this is a opinion that only supports not moving up the same way we did A year earlier for savage, imo it's a non factor, specially considering the picks made, a QB that probably wont even beat out our #2 this coming season, and wont start if ever till Rodgers retires, a RB best used in inside zone runs ( not exactly what Lafluer said he wanted to feature in the running attack) and a TE yet to see the field, agreed do to injury however, sorta the same type of TE as the other 3 we already have.
bang for buck, Jefferson baring injury will give more production in the next 4 years then any of these 3

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 06:54

If Rodgers is the MVP, he should make them better. While the WR position is not best in the league, it sure isn't bereft of talent outside of Adams.

The entire point is that there is not lack of talent on the Packer offense.

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

by yards he is, and he's what???? 35 for 68, your right thats only a 47% drop rate

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:38

by yards he is, and he's what???? 35 for 68, your right thats only a 47% drop rate

By receptions, he's 5th. And yes, he has been extremely inefficient and has dropped some BIG passes, but receptions vs targets is not drop rate.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:33

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

I do wonder how much Lazard's injury is impacting him this year. He just hasn't done much, at least from a pass catcher standpoint, since his return. And with the core injuries taking away Jennings in 2012, Tonyan in 2019, I wonder if we can hope/expect a higher output from Lazard in 2021.

Although I do have a beef to pick with Rodgers. He had Lazard WIDE OPEN on that 4th down play on the first series on Sunday and Rodgers STARED down Adams the whole play. Lazard was wide open because the corner blitzed. It was a gimme first down and instead Rodgers went for a lower percentage TD ball to Adams who fortunately got a penalty called on him.

Those are the things that are still frustrating to watch.

Said the same in the Game Day Thread about that 4th down play. I didn't realize it was Lazard though.

With so many weapons someone is going to get the short end, but I agree the injury is probably hampering him at least a bit. He did have a good Carolina game.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:33

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

I do wonder how much Lazard's injury is impacting him this year. He just hasn't done much, at least from a pass catcher standpoint, since his return. And with the core injuries taking away Jennings in 2012, Tonyan in 2019, I wonder if we can hope/expect a higher output from Lazard in 2021.

Although I do have a beef to pick with Rodgers. He had Lazard WIDE OPEN on that 4th down play on the first series on Sunday and Rodgers STARED down Adams the whole play. Lazard was wide open because the corner blitzed. It was a gimme first down and instead Rodgers went for a lower percentage TD ball to Adams who fortunately got a penalty called on him.

Those are the things that are still frustrating to watch. Honestly they are on par of the frustration level as watching MVS drop an easy TD.

no it's not that drop put our offense in a funk for the next two offensive series, I admit he should have thrown to Lazard, obvious that Rodgers wanted to help Adams set records, why wouldn't he, Adams has been his most reliable WR for years now.

Willie said it best, how much game time would these receivers get on another team? there isn't a honest to goodness #2 amongst any of them.

I also think it is absolutely true that Rodgers is squeezing every inch of talent out of these guys. Put Boyle in or Love and I think their warts would show through a lot more clearly. Look, it's not an overly talented collection of WR's. That narrative still exists and is true. What wasn't true is the fact that the offense wouldn't work with what they had... because it did. What would better WR's have done? Probably made the offense even better, but we will never know that for sure. Even drafting a WR in the 1st-round next year, seeing an improvement in the offense (wouldn't that be fun), won't point back to this year and change anything. It just is what it is. We're good. Period.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:38

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 07:13

I hope your right, however our #2 has a 50% drop rate and 600 plus receiving yrds,

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

by yards he is, and he's what???? 35 for 68, your right thats only a 47% drop rate

Allen Lazard is getting more snaps than he is. Allen Lazard is the Packers #2 receiver.

That is not drop rate, that is catch rate. Not all of the 33 passes that were not completed to him are drops, not even close.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:45

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:33

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jan 2021 08:06

MVS is not our #2. And MVS does not have a 50% drop rate.

I do wonder how much Lazard's injury is impacting him this year. He just hasn't done much, at least from a pass catcher standpoint, since his return. And with the core injuries taking away Jennings in 2012, Tonyan in 2019, I wonder if we can hope/expect a higher output from Lazard in 2021.

Although I do have a beef to pick with Rodgers. He had Lazard WIDE OPEN on that 4th down play on the first series on Sunday and Rodgers STARED down Adams the whole play. Lazard was wide open because the corner blitzed. It was a gimme first down and instead Rodgers went for a lower percentage TD ball to Adams who fortunately got a penalty called on him.

Those are the things that are still frustrating to watch. Honestly they are on par of the frustration level as watching MVS drop an easy TD.

no it's not that drop put our offense in a funk for the next two offensive series, I admit he should have thrown to Lazard, obvious that Rodgers wanted to help Adams set records, why wouldn't he, Adams has been his most reliable WR for years now.

Willie said it best, how much game time would these receivers get on another team? there isn't a honest to goodness #2 amongst any of them.

Again. All of these ulterior motive obvious things you know Rodgers is doing would be very frustrating if actually true.

I will say I am now relieved that the regular season is over and record chasing is over. I too would agree there was some record chasing and stat padding happening the last few weeks of forcing things. I hope that stops now. Just win baby.

And I think MLF and Aaron Rodgers has clearly proven that his offense doesn't need a bonafide #2 WR. Hell. It don't need a bonafide #1 WR. The offense is diverse enough to not rely on stereotypical needs. And because our QB has bought into that, it has been the most joyous season I have ever watched of a Packers quarterback and offense.

I will forever hold 2020 as the standard moving forward. What a joy this season was.