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Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 10:58
by Waldo
Going back to the trade for Favre, a RB has led GB in receptions twice, Ahman Green in 2000 and 2001. I believe his 73 in 2000 are a team record for a RB (he had 62 in 2001).
Last year Jones had 52 receptions, which is the most for a RB since Green. I think Jones is a notably better receiver than Green was. With target hog Davante out of the picture, I can see 75+ receptions for Jones.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 11:02
by Yoop
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 09:39
Best or most valuable? There is a difference.
Jaire is a lot better CB than Rodgers is a QB.
Kenny is a lot better Dlineman than Rodgers is a QB.
I went with Jaire.
seriously this is why I can seldom take you seriously, no CB or DL is better then Rodgers is as a QB, Aaron Donald would be about the only player that comes to mind and he still isn't even that close, give Rodgers the talent at receiver he had during his youth and no one would lay claim that Brady is better, People that claim Rodgers isn't the best QB in the league can only do so because he has lacked quality receiver besides Adams
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 11:04
by BF004
Waldo wrote: ↑02 May 2022 10:58
Going back to the trade for Favre, a RB has led GB in receptions twice, Ahman Green in 2000 and 2001. I believe his 73 in 2000 are a team record for a RB (he had 62 in 2001).
Last year Jones had 52 receptions, which is the most for a RB since Green. I think Jones is a notably better receiver than Green was. With target hog Davante out of the picture, I can see 75+ receptions for Jones.
Ahman Green was the last time we had a really good receiving RB and below average WR's.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 11:06
by BF004
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 09:39
Jaire is a lot better CB than Rodgers is a QB.
Kenny is a lot better Dlineman than Rodgers is a QB.
You are like the forum version of Skip Bayliss sometimes.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 11:10
by Yoop
Jones played dinged and bruised up last year, still caught 50 plus catches for 400 and 4.7 YPC for 800 yrds, Jones is still our feature RB, I to would expect more targets this year.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 11:53
by Pugger
My #2 is Kenny Clark. This defense isn't the same when he isn't in there.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 12:43
by Labrev
Rodgers is #1, hands down.
#2 is going to be incredibly difficult. An argument could be made that Bakhtiari's injury cost us both of our most recent playoff games -- what he gives us at LT is incredibly important to our offense.
We also fielded a #1 D last year without our stars, with the notable exception of Kenny Clark, who had a monster year and was a cornerstone of that great defense. That said, I could also believe that our D would still be #1 if you lost Clark for the year but had Jaire for the entirety of it -- that secondary would just take the passing game away entirely.
Yet that would be a conjecture-based belief whereas we know we have an elite defense with Clark as DT1.
2. Clark
3. Bakhtiari
4. Jaire
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 13:01
by TheSkeptic
Yoop wrote: ↑02 May 2022 11:02
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 09:39
Best or most valuable? There is a difference.
Jaire is a lot better CB than Rodgers is a QB.
Kenny is a lot better Dlineman than Rodgers is a QB.
I went with Jaire.
seriously this is why I can seldom take you seriously, no CB or DL is better then Rodgers is as a QB, Aaron Donald would be about the only player that comes to mind and he still isn't even that close, give Rodgers the talent at receiver he had during his youth and no one would lay claim that Brady is better, People that claim Rodgers isn't the best QB in the league can only do so because he has lacked quality receiver besides Adams
And this is why I can't take you seriously. The challenge is to select the "BEST" player, not the most valuable. The BEST means to me, the player that plays his position best. Who dominates his opponents best.
Let me give you an example. In the 1960's Packers, IMO Forrest Gregg was the best of them all. Why do I say this? Because Lombardi said so, but also because he completely dominated every opponent he ever faced. Another example was Gale Gillingham, in the early 1970's he was the best player on the team - why - because he redefined what it meant to be an offensive lineman. He was the first to dedicate himself to the weight room in the offseason and the first to get big. At his peak he played at about 275 pounds, a full 25 pounds heavier than most olinemen. No other Packer in the 1970's was so good that he redefined his position - and that is what "best" means with regard to football players.
OK, the modern era. Who was best, Favre or Reggie White? You would say Favre, I would say White. Why do I say this? Because 50 years from now all football fans will still marvel at how he played the game and 50 years from now only Packer fans will remember who Favre was.
And now I challenge you, go back to the playoffs in 2020 and tell me who showed up to play in the championship game and who folded like a cheap tent in a thunderstorm? And yet you choose Rodgers.
I admit it, you know more about football than I do. I am just a fan. But one thing I do know a lot better than you is the English language and the definition of the word best. Your definition is "most valuable", and AR is clearly more valuable to the team. But if Love were starting in September he would be more valuable than Jaire too because of the disparity in the value of the 2 positions. Unfortunately most of the people on this forum do not understand the English language.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 13:15
by BF004
I mean, I get your argument and what you are saying, but I think it is silly.
Especially when you use the terms 'a lot better'.
Maybe if you would phrase it as, 'I think Jaire might be a better CB than Aaron is a QB right now', that could garner some discussion perhaps. I still think it would be shot down pretty quickly. I mean we are talking back to back MVP and guy in the discussion as possible the best ever to play the position in the history of league. But I think it could garner a discussion looking into next year.
But to just state as a matter of fact that Jaire is just undeniably better, yeah, that's gunna get laughed out of the room every time.
Saying Aaron Donald is a better DL than Rodgers is a QB is something that might be a fair fight.
I would also agree with you Reggie White was a better DL than Favre was a QB.
But Jaire isn't in the same stratosphere yet, nor is Kenny Clark, as Reggie White.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 13:19
by Pugger
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 13:01
Yoop wrote: ↑02 May 2022 11:02
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 09:39
Best or most valuable? There is a difference.
Jaire is a lot better CB than Rodgers is a QB.
Kenny is a lot better Dlineman than Rodgers is a QB.
I went with Jaire.
seriously this is why I can seldom take you seriously, no CB or DL is better then Rodgers is as a QB, Aaron Donald would be about the only player that comes to mind and he still isn't even that close, give Rodgers the talent at receiver he had during his youth and no one would lay claim that Brady is better, People that claim Rodgers isn't the best QB in the league can only do so because he has lacked quality receiver besides Adams
And this is why I can't take you seriously. The challenge is to select the "BEST" player, not the most valuable. The BEST means to me, the player that plays his position best. Who dominates his opponents best.
Let me give you an example. In the 1960's Packers, IMO Forrest Gregg was the best of them all. Why do I say this? Because Lombardi said so, but also because he completely dominated every opponent he ever faced. Another example was Gale Gillingham, in the early 1970's he was the best player on the team - why - because he redefined what it meant to be an offensive lineman. He was the first to dedicate himself to the weight room in the offseason and the first to get big. At his peak he played at about 275 pounds, a full 25 pounds heavier than most olinemen. No other Packer in the 1970's was so good that he redefined his position - and that is what "best" means with regard to football players.
OK, the modern era. Who was best, Favre or Reggie White? You would say Favre, I would say White. Why do I say this? Because 50 years from now all football fans will still marvel at how he played the game and 50 years from now only Packer fans will remember who Favre was.
And now I challenge you, go back to the playoffs in 2020 and tell me who showed up to play in the championship game and who folded like a cheap tent in a thunderstorm? And yet you choose Rodgers.
I admit it, you know more about football than I do. I am just a fan. But one thing I do know a lot better than you is the English language and the definition of the word best. Your definition is "most valuable", and AR is clearly more valuable to the team. But if Love were starting in September he would be more valuable than Jaire too because of the disparity in the value of the 2 positions. Unfortunately most of the people on this forum do not understand the English language.
If what you say is true, that Alexander is the best player on this roster, why did our defense still play well without him? IMO your best players are those who are integral to your team's success. When they are not in there your team just isn't as good and suffers. Jaire is a great player and our defense will be better with him in there but he isn't the best player on that side of the ball let alone the entire roster.
And I have a feeling fans other than those of the Packers will remember who Favre was.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 13:19
by Yoop
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 13:01
Yoop wrote: ↑02 May 2022 11:02
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 May 2022 09:39
Best or most valuable? There is a difference.
Jaire is a lot better CB than Rodgers is a QB.
Kenny is a lot better Dlineman than Rodgers is a QB.
I went with Jaire.
seriously this is why I can seldom take you seriously, no CB or DL is better then Rodgers is as a QB, Aaron Donald would be about the only player that comes to mind and he still isn't even that close, give Rodgers the talent at receiver he had during his youth and no one would lay claim that Brady is better, People that claim Rodgers isn't the best QB in the league can only do so because he has lacked quality receiver besides Adams
And this is why I can't take you seriously. The challenge is to select the "BEST" player, not the most valuable. The BEST means to me, the player that plays his position best. Who dominates his opponents best.
Let me give you an example. In the 1960's Packers, IMO Forrest Gregg was the best of them all. Why do I say this? Because Lombardi said so, but also because he completely dominated every opponent he ever faced. Another example was Gale Gillingham, in the early 1970's he was the best player on the team - why - because he redefined what it meant to be an offensive lineman. He was the first to dedicate himself to the weight room in the offseason and the first to get big. At his peak he played at about 275 pounds, a full 25 pounds heavier than most olinemen. No other Packer in the 1970's was so good that he redefined his position - and that is what "best" means with regard to football players.
OK, the modern era. Who was best, Favre or Reggie White? You would say Favre, I would say White. Why do I say this? Because 50 years from now all football fans will still marvel at how he played the game and 50 years from now only Packer fans will remember who Favre was.
And now I challenge you, go back to the playoffs in 2020 and tell me who showed up to play in the championship game and who folded like a cheap tent in a thunderstorm? And yet you choose Rodgers.
I admit it, you know more about football than I do. I am just a fan. But one thing I do know a lot better than you is the English language and the definition of the word best. Your definition is "most valuable", and AR is clearly more valuable to the team. But if Love were starting in September he would be more valuable than Jaire too because of the disparity in the value of the 2 positions. Unfortunately most of the people on this forum do not understand the English language.
NO again you got it Ax backwards, hardly anyone remembers Reggie any more, Favre is still a house hold name and that will never change, and Rodgers is not only the best player we have bar any position, he is also our most important player.
and Just because Lombardi made a flippant response that Forrest was his best player, it's very debatable since the squad had 9 HOFamers, people really discount Bart Starr, so foolish he was one of the most accurate QB's of his era, or Willie Wood, Adderly etc that team was loaded to the gills with talent.
and Rodgers didn't blow it or wilt in 2020, there where 5 dropped passes, 2 would have been TD's, to me people that blame these PO losses on Rodgers simply want to, it's lazy and so short sighted, QB's win MVPs because there position is the most important, and Rodgers wins em because he's the best QB, the only fans to argue this point are Packer fans, it's agenda driven and makes zero sense, ask fans of other teams and most will say Rodgers is the best, Packer fans are Rodgers worst critics.
I'am just a football fan like you, I probably just spent more nights in a Holiday Inn
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 13:32
by salmar80
I think taking away positional importance and impact on winning and losing is an interesting exercise when thinking about "best players".
Problem: if we signed a soccer goalie from Europe to be our punter, and he was waaaaay better than ANY punter in history of the game, would he be our "best" player? Just because he played the position way better than anyone before....
Not to me.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 15:32
by lulu
Rodgers #1, Jaire #2.
Rodgers is not only the best and most valuable player on the team he is the best and most valuable player in the entire league.
I LOVE Jaire's swag and he is an absolute stud in the secondary. Looking forward to the Packers locking him up for a bunch of years.
Clark would be my 2b. If I had to give one of them up it would probably be Clark.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 15:52
by Backthepack4ever
It's the QB. We were down some studs last year and could compete. Without AR we aren't the same (Love isn't there yet)
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 02 May 2022 18:15
by texas
I think we ought to pump the brakes a little bit on the Rashan Gary hype. Frankly I was expecting more from him last season (I was expecting a DPOY season from him, and while he was a stud, he was not in the DPOY conversation). His metrics haven't quite matched up to the eye test yet. A year ago we were comparing him to Aaron Donald based on some of his stats during limited game time, and he did not hit that level yet. Obviously excited to see him continue to improve. He was very raw and is definitely top 10, borderline top 5 on our team. But idk if I want to put him in the blue chip category quite yet, especially if we're leaving Devondre Campbell out of that category.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 03 May 2022 08:00
by paco
texas wrote: ↑02 May 2022 18:15
I think we ought to pump the brakes a little bit on the Rashan Gary hype. Frankly I was expecting more from him last season (I was expecting a DPOY season from him, and while he was a stud, he was not in the DPOY conversation). His metrics haven't quite matched up to the eye test yet. A year ago we were comparing him to Aaron Donald based on some of his stats during limited game time, and he did not hit that level yet. Obviously excited to see him continue to improve. He was very raw and is definitely top 10, borderline top 5 on our team. But idk if I want to put him in the blue chip category quite yet, especially if we're leaving Devondre Campbell out of that category.
Who the hell compared Gary to Donald? Can I have some of whatever they were having?
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 03 May 2022 08:08
by Yoop
paco wrote: ↑03 May 2022 08:00
texas wrote: ↑02 May 2022 18:15
I think we ought to pump the brakes a little bit on the Rashan Gary hype. Frankly I was expecting more from him last season (I was expecting a DPOY season from him, and while he was a stud, he was not in the DPOY conversation). His metrics haven't quite matched up to the eye test yet. A year ago we were comparing him to Aaron Donald based on some of his stats during limited game time, and he did not hit that level yet. Obviously excited to see him continue to improve. He was very raw and is definitely top 10, borderline top 5 on our team. But idk if I want to put him in the blue chip category quite yet, especially if we're leaving Devondre Campbell out of that category.
Who the hell compared Gary to Donald? Can I have some of whatever they were having?
I would, why not, Gary had the 3rd or 4th best pass rushing grade of the entire pass rushing league last year per snap, anyone that says they expected more isn't aware of that, all they go by is sack count, I've been preaching for years that sacks are simply the bonus, total pressure counts tell a more complete story, and if your getting pressures eventually higher sack counts will follow, I expect Gary to really explode this season.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 03 May 2022 08:13
by Drj820
Yoop wrote: ↑03 May 2022 08:08
paco wrote: ↑03 May 2022 08:00
texas wrote: ↑02 May 2022 18:15
I think we ought to pump the brakes a little bit on the Rashan Gary hype. Frankly I was expecting more from him last season (I was expecting a DPOY season from him, and while he was a stud, he was not in the DPOY conversation). His metrics haven't quite matched up to the eye test yet. A year ago we were comparing him to Aaron Donald based on some of his stats during limited game time, and he did not hit that level yet. Obviously excited to see him continue to improve. He was very raw and is definitely top 10, borderline top 5 on our team. But idk if I want to put him in the blue chip category quite yet, especially if we're leaving Devondre Campbell out of that category.
Who the hell compared Gary to Donald? Can I have some of whatever they were having?
I would, why not, Gary had the 3rd or 4th best pass rushing grade of the entire pass rushing league last year per snap, anyone that says they expected more isn't aware of that, all they go by is sack count, I've been preaching for years that sacks are simply the bonus, total pressure counts tell a more complete story, and if your getting pressures eventually higher sack counts will follow, I expect Gary to really explode this season.
Who hacked yoops account
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 03 May 2022 08:16
by Drj820
Gary elevated himself from “bust” to “not a bust with lots more potential” last season. Year 4 and even now 5 will be pivotal in determining if he was worth #12 overall.
You usually don’t draft someone at 12 and be happy that they gave you nothing their first 2 seasons. But if Rashan continues to improve and be a staple of the Defense then he can overcome those first years in terms of justifying his selection.
He made strong progress in doing that last year, but another strong year will be needed.
Re: Rank the Roster 2022: #1
Posted: 03 May 2022 08:25
by NCF
Drj820 wrote: ↑03 May 2022 08:16
You usually don’t draft someone at 12 and be happy that they gave you nothing their first 2 seasons.
Not just you Drj, but for others, as well, what is your definition of "nothing"? He was a project and required some time, but can we really look back and say he gave us "nothing"?
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