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Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 17:53
by Pckfn23
The screen shot I posted is specifically taken to show that Rodgers hasn't even set his back plant foot down and the guys behind the stab and already breaking on the under route. That should alert the QB to throw the over route as there is little chance the DBs will recover to the Go. Instead the coverage was not read and instead it went to the out which the 2 DBs were breaking on before the throwing motion was started. Now, he could have been told to throw the out and if so, it was poorly designed and should have just been a WR screen, which it was not. If he was not told that then the defense needs to be read, see that Doubs (1) will be blanketed by the breaking DBs behind the stab and hit Watkins (2) as he streaks past them.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 18:12
by Yoop
bud fox wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 15:38
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 10:44
The exact moment both DBs over the stab take a step forward:
image.png
Rodgers motion was starting back foot gets planted and it's out.
Just as play was designed by MLF to get 1 yard.
Pump fake would've been great in hindsight but un reality the odds on play was to go to Doubs.
Corner made good play and read knowing pack needed 1 yard and wouldn't risk something big.
seemed like the play call to me, for all we know there was never a play designed for Watkins to go deep, right from the snap this looks like it was designed to go to the 1st read, Doubs and Watkins was a decoy to drag the safety out of the play, didn't work.
good point, 4th and 1 isn't a deep ball situation
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 18:41
by Pckfn23
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 18:50
by packman114
This is what I have been saying about the difference between Brady and Rodgers. Up until now the main difference was Rodgers' ability to extend plays and accuracy outside the pocket. Brady, I felt, was better at pre-snap reads and was able to ust that quick pass game to his advantage.
Now that Aaron can't move as well, he is trying to go with the quick passes. But it appears his decision making isn't as good as Brady's. Whenever the Pats got in an offensive rut, they went no-huddle and Brady tore teams apart. That is something I wish we would try more.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 18:56
by APB
Again. He/they have become too predictable.
#brokenrecord
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 21:07
by RingoCStarrQB
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 10:44
The exact moment both DBs over the stab take a step forward:
image.png
Should have just ran the ball in that down and distance situation. Forget the bunched WRs gimmick schwimmick thing. Pound to Win!! Run to Daylight!
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 21:14
by Drj820
I was a firm believer that Rodgers declined in that stretch before McCarthy was canned…not because of his coaching or play calling etc, as most believed…
But because he was out for most of the year with the collar bone and then week one of the next year damaged his knee so bad he missed every practice for almost a year. He also had new receivers to get to know around that time too.
Fast forward to now and he’s practicing most weeks but Cobbs out, Watson isn’t practicing, Watkins has been on IR, doubs is a rookie etc…Lazard is now hurt, but he practiced and rodgers had a good connection with him. My point?
I think not practicing with his guys was the cause of his decline in play then, and not much practice time or consistent practice time with the same guys is the problem now.
I’m not sure rodgers has the ability to put himself in about man’s shoes. I don’t think he can pretend he’s a rookie receiver and do what the rookie would do. I don’t think he sees a guy and throws to where he is. I think he cerebrally knows where a guy should be…based on practice reps (he mentions that a lot), or what defender does (not something most rookies would pick up on), or where a man SHOULD be. Problem is that it’s just a fact that these guys aren’t always where they should be. So 12 should adjust his game and try to think like his noob receivers. Not sure he has ability to do that though.
Also we’ve all kind of known this about rodgers. It isn’t new at all. So just a colossal failure to try to win a Super Bowl with wounded warriors, Lazard and rookies. Like we know rodgers needs the savvy vet. Even if that vet has lost a step. Rodgers needs guys that see the whole field like jordy, James Jones, Adams, etc. to go for a Super Bowl with this caste of characters was putting oil with water. It has been understated what a failure it was in preparation to win a Super Bowl.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 27 Oct 2022 21:23
by RingoCStarrQB
Drj820 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 21:14
I was a firm believer that Rodgers declined in that stretch before McCarthy was canned…not because of his coaching or play calling etc, as most believed…
But because he was out for most of the year with the collar bone and then week one of the next year damaged his knee so bad he missed every practice for almost a year. He also had new receivers to get to know around that time too.
Fast forward to now and he’s practicing most weeks but Cobbs out, Watson isn’t practicing, Watkins has been on IR, doubs is a rookie etc…Lazard is now hurt, but he practiced and rodgers had a good connection with him. My point?
I think not practicing with his guys was the cause of his decline in play then, and not much practice time or consistent practice time with the same guys is the problem now.
I’m not sure rodgers has the ability to put himself in about man’s shoes. I don’t think he can pretend he’s a rookie receiver and do what the rookie would do. I don’t think he sees a guy and throws to where he is. I think he cerebrally knows where a guy should be…based on practice reps (he mentions that a lot), or what defender does (not something most rookies would pick up on), or where a man SHOULD be. Problem is that it’s just a fact that these guys aren’t always where they should be. So 12 should adjust his game and try to think like his noob receivers. Not sure he has ability to do that though.
Also we’ve all kind of known this about rodgers. It isn’t new at all. So just a colossal failure to try to win a Super Bowl with wounded warriors, Lazard and rookies. Like we know rodgers needs the savvy vet. Even if that vet has lost a step. Rodgers needs guys that see the whole field like jordy, James Jones, Adams, etc. to go for a Super Bowl with this caste of characters was putting oil with water. It has been understated what a failure it was in preparation to win a Super Bowl.
This is partly why I took the Bills in the Pick Six Challenge. The other partly why is the defense and the special teams.
Does anybody realize the 1961 Packers 4 starting DBs (called defensive halfbacks and safeties back then) each had 5 INTs in the regular season? Jimmy Taylor had 16 TDs. Paul Hornung had 10 TDs. Contrast this with the 2022 Packers. Aaron Jones can't do it all by himself.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 11:14
by AmishMafia
packman114 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 18:50
This is what I have been saying about the difference between Brady and Rodgers. Up until now the main difference was Rodgers' ability to extend plays and accuracy outside the pocket. Brady, I felt, was better at pre-snap reads and was able to ust that quick pass game to his advantage.
Now that Aaron can't move as well, he is trying to go with the quick passes. But it appears his decision making isn't as good as Brady's. Whenever the Pats got in an offensive rut, they went no-huddle and Brady tore teams apart. That is something I wish we would try more.
I watched a bit of the Tampa game last night. I saw Brady when on the sidelines had a tablet, talking to WRs and coaches, diagraming, discussing, listening. The last Packer game I went to (bears), Rodgers just stood there on the sidelines. Or he sat on a bench just kicking back and relaxing.
I think that is the biggest difference.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 11:28
by Labrev
First time TB12 has had a losing record this late into the year since... 2002!
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 11:57
by BF004
Labrev wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 11:28
First time TB12 has had a losing record this late into the year since... 2002!
I was still in high school, lol. My oldest is only 3 years off of attending herself.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 12:29
by Acrobat
Still seems like yesterday that my friends and I were ecstatic when the Patriots won the Super Bowl against the Rams in Feb 2002. U2 played at halftime with the 9/11 victims on the screen. Great Super Bowl.
Only to find out that the Patriots cheated and never would have thought at that very moment that Tom Brady would become one of my most hated sports figures ever.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 12:38
by RingoCStarrQB
Labrev wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 11:28
First time TB12 has had a losing record this late into the year since... 2002!
First time since the Sherman Tanked 2005 season that the Packers have a one-dimensional offense. The multi-talented Aaron Jones ........... that's it until something drastically changes. Essentially no passing game and nothing particularly notable from the tight end position. We almost have no offense...........almost.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 14:24
by Yoop
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 12:38
Labrev wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 11:28
First time TB12 has had a losing record this late into the year since... 2002!
First time since the Sherman Tanked 2005 season that the Packers have a one-dimensional offense. The multi-talented Aaron Jones ........... that's it until something drastically changes. Essentially no passing game and nothing particularly notable from the tight end position. We almost have no offense...........almost.
this says a lot about Guty's team building ability, one impact player on offense who half this forum didn't even want to resign
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 14:28
by Yoop
AmishMafia wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 11:14
packman114 wrote: ↑27 Oct 2022 18:50
This is what I have been saying about the difference between Brady and Rodgers. Up until now the main difference was Rodgers' ability to extend plays and accuracy outside the pocket. Brady, I felt, was better at pre-snap reads and was able to ust that quick pass game to his advantage.
Now that Aaron can't move as well, he is trying to go with the quick passes. But it appears his decision making isn't as good as Brady's. Whenever the Pats got in an offensive rut, they went no-huddle and Brady tore teams apart. That is something I wish we would try more.
I watched a bit of the Tampa game last night. I saw Brady when on the sidelines had a tablet, talking to WRs and coaches, diagraming, discussing, listening. The last Packer game I went to (bears), Rodgers just stood there on the sidelines. Or he sat on a bench just kicking back and relaxing.
I think that is the biggest difference.
hardly, I'll give ya Rodgers seems dis interested at times, and pissed off to, but the biggest difference revolves around personal, or the lack of it, Belechick made sure Brady was surrounded with catchers.
Give Rodgers 2 very good TE's or 3 very good WR and he can carve up a defense just as well as Brady has, thing is Rodgers hasn't been surrounded with that kind of talent in a decade, and has never had a coach as innovative as Belechick
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 15:37
by Ghost_Lombardi
Rodgers is making all his reads pre-snap rather than post-snap. That is not why we paid him 100+ million dollars. If he's grown to lazy to do the job, sit him and bring in Love. Then he'll bitch and ask for a trade market and he can be gone.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 16:34
by bud fox
Any wr playing in the nfl should know what to do on a route. It's not that much to remember or diagnose... qb has to do it for line and every wr on the field.
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 17:02
by texas
Can someone explain why this isn't just some hindsight 20/20 nonsense? I.e. I am sure you can find better choices that could have been made on every play, after the fact, but 1) why are we to assume that the play wasn't run as called; 2) assuming it was run correctly, why should we assume it was a stupid or suboptimal play call decision; 3) assuming it was a correctly run play that was not suboptimal, why should Rodgers have thrown out the plan on that play and instead waited for a random different route to possibly open up in the future? Haven't we been wanting him to stop doing the sandbox stuff where he waits too long for someone to get open and then everything falls apart? Haven't we been wanting him to do more of these quick passes?
The point is that yeah, it would have been nice to hit Sammy Watkins in stride for a TD but why is it anybody's fault for not doing that when the point of the play might have been to do a quick pass because we were building to something or trying to compensate for other weaknesses such as the poor protection we've been getting?
It sucks when we see these screenshots after big losses where there is a wide open WR on a key play that goes poorly (2007 NFCCG Favre OT INT comes to mind), but how many of these "missed plays" with "wide open WRs" can be reasonably expected to have been performed better in the moment, given our gameplans at the time and the relative risks of not going with earlier reads?
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 18:03
by bud fox
texas wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 17:02
Can someone explain why this isn't just some hindsight 20/20 nonsense? I.e. I am sure you can find better choices that could have been made on every play, after the fact, but 1) why are we to assume that the play wasn't run as called; 2) assuming it was run correctly, why should we assume it was a stupid or suboptimal play call decision; 3) assuming it was a correctly run play that was not suboptimal, why should Rodgers have thrown out the plan on that play and instead waited for a random different route to
possibly open up in the future? Haven't we been wanting him to stop doing the sandbox stuff where he waits too long for someone to get open and then everything falls apart? Haven't we been wanting him to do more of these quick passes?
The point is that yeah, it would have been nice to hit Sammy Watkins in stride for a TD but why is it anybody's fault for not doing that when the point of the play might have been to do a quick pass because we were building to something or trying to compensate for other weaknesses such as the poor protection we've been getting?
It sucks when we see these screenshots after big losses where there is a wide open WR on a key play that goes poorly (2007 NFCCG Favre OT INT comes to mind), but how many of these "missed plays" with "wide open WRs" can be reasonably expected to have been performed better in the moment, given our gameplans at the time and the relative risks of not going with earlier reads?
Re: 4th and 1: Rodgers, Stones, and Glass Houses
Posted: 28 Oct 2022 18:16
by AmishMafia
texas wrote: ↑28 Oct 2022 17:02
It sucks when we see these screenshots after big losses where there is a wide open WR on a key play that goes poorly (2007 NFCCG Favre OT INT comes to mind), but how many of these "missed plays" with "wide open WRs" can be reasonably expected to have been performed better in the moment, given our gameplans at the time and the relative risks of not going with earlier reads?
It also sucks to see an all-time great player's skill erode. It's sad to see him blame everyone around him and not take any accountability. It's also sad to see his and see his ardent fans oblivious to what should be obvious. The same folks who have been saying for years that AR makes everyone around him better now say he is surrounded by a lack of talent.