I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.
Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.
As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?
I don't know if I'd say there is an absence of grit. One of things I find encouraging is the fact that they never quit. There are definite holes to fill in the coming draft and after we get some cap relief. But last season with AR and a very similar roster we still struggled.
The reality is that our front office went all in (or at least 90% in) to try to win one with Rodgers, and shifted all of the cap penalties and tough roster decisions and whatnot to this year. This is the year we take our lumps. Next year we can actually start something. Just embrace the suck for 2023. We're not even that bad considering how much pain we could have been looking at. We probably deserve to be 2-4 but we're also a few bounces away from 5-1.
We don't need to take time to debate who is the bigger, smarter, longer Packers/football fan here. The saying goes, a person depends on statistics as a drunk depends on a lamppost. The time for excuses are over. As a poster in another thread bespoke, we have the same personnel on the OL as last year, yet no answers. Watson is glass. Our safeties suck, as usual. No one can tackle. On offense it looks like an unorchestrated jailbreak. Love is two beats behind every play and throws Whiffle Balls past 12 yards. Broken routes, this Musgrave guy looks like his shoestrings are tied together. Deguara is a moron and a wasted 3rd round pick. This is, aside from NYG or CHI, the most hapless bunch of amateurs collected on an NFL field this year that I've seen in any uniform in quite a while.
Either wake up and see what is happening or keep your dork ass cheesehead on and bang your calculator til your fingertips bleed. The ship is direct torpedoed from within. Done-sy.
So this hapless bunch of amateurs just lost 3 games by 7 total points. Not bad for a hapless bunch. Maybe next year we get an average amateur or two and win some games. Who needs pros!
Re: Reality
Posted: 28 Oct 2023 14:57
by wallyuwl
The 7 points was vs Broncos, Atl, and LV. Not SF, KC, and Philly. We saw what happened against Detroit.
I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.
Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.
As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?
I don't know if I'd say there is an absence of grit. One of things I find encouraging is the fact that they never quit. There are definite holes to fill in the coming draft and after we get some cap relief. But last season with AR and a very similar roster we still struggled.
IMO the litmus test for grit is how effective a team is at stopping the run. For having such a “talented defense,” it is strange that we are among the worst in the league at stopping the run. My explanation for that is that they don’t have any teeth- they’ve got no balls. I can see it by the way they watch teammates try to make the play instead of swarming and sacrificing their own bodies.
Re: Reality
Posted: 28 Oct 2023 19:38
by lupedafiasco
My problem with this defense for years is they don’t play defense with a physical mindset. Ever watch the old legion of boom or that Bears defense with Peanut and Urlacher and Briggs.
Obvisously they’re all talented players but moreover those guys got in on every hit. If another defender was in on a tackle you can bet your ass the rest of the defense was looking to get in on the hit.
We don’t see players rally to the ball or gang tackle. Way too many arm tackles. Get in and wrap up and if you don’t get them down that’s ok. Slow them down so the rest of your team can support you. It’s a culture thing in my opinion. We need that crazy ILB or S that energizes the team on the field and the SC psycho enough to inspire that.
Re: Reality
Posted: 28 Oct 2023 22:48
by Drj820
REALITY: The packers org (people in charge) draft based on physical measurables and whether the person is a good citizen.
Tackling, meanness, toughness etc does not seem to be a priority.
Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.
As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?
I don't know if I'd say there is an absence of grit. One of things I find encouraging is the fact that they never quit. There are definite holes to fill in the coming draft and after we get some cap relief. But last season with AR and a very similar roster we still struggled.
IMO the litmus test for grit is how effective a team is at stopping the run. For having such a “talented defense,” it is strange that we are among the worst in the league at stopping the run. My explanation for that is that they don’t have any teeth- they’ve got no balls. I can see it by the way they watch teammates try to make the play instead of swarming and sacrificing their own bodies.
Could it be the DC's philosophy that is holding the guys back? For the amount of draft capital invested on this side of the ball they should be better than this.
Re: Reality
Posted: 28 Oct 2023 23:43
by bud fox
Re: Reality
Posted: 28 Oct 2023 23:56
by Yoop
yards don't lose games, stopping the run went out of style with the big chunk offenses 40 years ago, limiting points is what matters, coverage is what matters, grit comes in many different forms, long as we have this continued red zone success I think we can do well enough between the 20's to win, I'am not going to lose any sleep over the fact that where bottom feeders defending the run, it's been this way almost half my lifetime why bruise my mellow over it now, just score more points, offense wins championships, stay focused
those Seahawks legion of doom, the 85 Bears, 20th century Ravens, and a few others, present day NIners, just look what it takes to build those defenses, long as a very good QB is in place ( I know, tough find) a smart GM could build a doz high scoring offenses for just 1 top 5 defense, maybe 2 doz, lots, that 85 Bears defense stardom, like that legion of doom lasted the length of a rookie contract, while a stud offense rolls for a decade or more.
I love this true grit talk, I agree with it to a point, but imo it 's old school ball, this is a X's & O's game that requires a lot of finesse, deception, and disguise, as well as the physical nature,
the long throw 3 plus min into this, the complaint is off platform throw, and not taking the intermediate route, no fault there, I agree, however the rusher is driving Walker right into Love, and it's been like that most of the season, that will cause a QB all kinds of issues, poor tech, accuracy, decision making, Love may never get better, but that sure isn't making it any easier for him
the long throw 3 plus min into this, the complaint is off platform throw, and not taking the intermediate route, no fault there, I agree, however the rusher is driving Walker right into Love, and it's been like that most of the season, that will cause a QB all kinds of issues, poor tech, accuracy, decision making, Love may never get better, but that sure isn't making it any easier for him
That's normal though. Love can't stand in the same spot, he has to move and resettle in the pocket.
At the moment Love either freezes in the pocket or he is running and leaving the pocket.
Re: Reality
Posted: 29 Oct 2023 06:23
by musclestang
There’s nothing wrong with being a good citizen. I prefer it. 2 of the greatest defenders on modern Packer history were pretty much model citizens. Reggie and Charles.
Our players are fine. Our defensive philosophy is in question. They CAN play and be aggressive and be decent people on top of it.
But they’re told to play in a system and taught to relax and let things come to them and wait for offense to make a mistake rather than attack, pressure and force mistakes. It has an affect on the team.
REALITY: The packers org (people in charge) draft based on physical measurables and whether the person is a good citizen.
Tackling, meanness, toughness etc does not seem to be a priority.
I agree with this.
I also prefer it to drafting a less physically capable, thug type player. I’ll take the better athlete, good dude type all day long.
Re: Reality
Posted: 29 Oct 2023 15:13
by Gunzaan
Reality: MLF is not the right coach for this young of a team.
I don’t think he is a good game day coach at all, but with this young of a team without an identity, MLF has been an awful head coach.
Re: Reality
Posted: 29 Oct 2023 16:22
by Tooothsome Jeb
Reality: Atlanta made no effort to retain Lafleur and when he went to Tennessee their offense swooned. Then we hired him. The Golden Goose is gone. My message is no one in this locker room can take this boy seriously, he spends too much time helping his friends get jobs, keeping them past their expiration date, and waxing his body hair. As Gunzaan said, he may not be the right head coach for this team.
I'll go one further and state he is not a head coach for any team, one blessed with vets would laugh this poseur off the podium. He is an act, a hologram of a real Packers football coach. Don't be fooled.
Re: Reality
Posted: 29 Oct 2023 17:04
by RingoCStarrQB
The current Packers management lack leadership skills. This applies from top to bottom: Murphy, Gutey, LaCoach. They may be "managers" but they're certainly not hard charging leaders.
Right now it appears that players are lacking leaders as well (not really sure, but that's how it looks to me).
The contrast is easy to see when teams come in to Lambeau and dominate. I'm expecting a Packers win over the Rams next Sunday. But expect that the Chargers and Chiefs will fly out of Wisconsin with wins.
We're 2 and 5 now. 4 and 13 seems plausible.
Bring in a new regime as Bob Harlan did when he brought in Ron Wolf, and gave him the keys to the buildings.
