Packers Huddle

APB wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 11:47

Not knowing what we don't know health-wise, I went with option #2 (pay cut) as my choice but would be happy with option #3 (extension) if the news broke tomorrow. That would tell me all I need to know about how the Packers, their medical staff, and Bakhtiari feel about his health prognosis.

Aside from @Drj820's obvious disdain for Bakhtiari, it'd be nice to know who the other votes were for dumping him outright and the reasons for doing so.

I said just don't want him back.

Long list of reasons
- Can't trust the knee
- Rasheed Walker earned that spot
- Don't want to be doing rotations or will he won't he every week messing with chemistry
- Money savings
- I think we just witnessed the effect it had having the entire offense all kind of gel together, similar in development, age, etc, vs prior year, lets roll with the young ducks
- Floor for even a paycut I'm guessing would be like $10M, given where Walker is, would just much rather use that money elsewhere
- Draft is a position we have had continual success drafting and developing through many years and front offices, and we have a lot of picks, just flood that OL with picks this year.

I changed my vote to, "I don't want him back", simply as you say, another 10 mil is to much to gamble on that knee, and less I think would insult Bakhtiari or I think the Gute may think that way, plus there is the coast of a injury settlement, not sure if Bakh last contract had a insurance clause built in, either way, agree we have cheaper tackles already at the position and Amerius Mims might drop to us because of inexperience and he's a monster eater, this draft class is loaded with em,

besides we have a David Bakhtiari lite with Zackery Tom, he got the feet, the hand work, and anchor, and disposition to match

I’ve been a strong, loud, anti-Bakhtiari voice for like a year or so now. And for a variety of reasons.

I think the weird offseason talk last year was more than a nothing-burger, but less than a ticket out of town.

But I think it stemmed from his not knowing what his reality looked like with the Packers. Coming off of big injuries, his best friend traded. Looking like the team is in a rebuild and feeling your own career mortality.

I think if Bakh came back now, on a team expecting to compete for a championship… the off-the-field, psychological things we’ve discussed are sort of resolved by the change in our team circumstances.

At this point, his cap hit is just comically high and his health issues are too persistent and severe to ignore.

So i remain out on him. And while I stand by the fact that his behavior last offseason rose to the level of odd and maybe looking to get out, it isn’t some unforgivable or irreversible state of mind and I’d bet it’s resolved and a non-issue

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 18:47

I’ve been a strong, loud, anti-Bakhtiari voice for like a year or so now. And for a variety of reasons.

I think the weird offseason talk last year was more than a nothing-burger, but less than a ticket out of town.

But I think it stemmed from his not knowing what his reality looked like with the Packers. Coming off of big injuries, his best friend traded. Looking like the team is in a rebuild and feeling your own career mortality.

I think if Bakh came back now, on a team expecting to compete for a championship… the off-the-field, psychological things we’ve discussed are sort of resolved by the change in our team circumstances.

At this point, his cap hit is just comically high and his health issues are too persistent and severe to ignore.

So i remain out on him. And while I stand by the fact that his behavior last offseason rose to the level of odd and maybe looking to get out, it isn’t some unforgivable or irreversible state of mind and I’d bet it’s resolved and a non-issue

Basically agree with this entire post.

His Knee is such a gamble and I can't imagine anyone is ever getting pre 2020 all-pro Bakhtiari again. Looks like he will be 33 this September. I guess you just have to eat the 19+ million this cap year and move on even though it kind of sucks. Just seems like his knee is an awkward step away from blowing up like a beach ball every day. Risk vs Reward tells me to move on!

I have been a pretty vocal defender of Bakhtiari and would very much like to see him back, if healthy. I am also a realist, though, and am not blind to the struggles he's had recovering from the knee injury or the cap cost to keep him. What I'd like to see is not necessarily what I expect to see.

I think I could get excited about an O-Line that featured Bakh/Walker at the bookends and Tom at center but the likelihood of that lineup surviving the year without injury is significant. Then we get into the musical chairs lineups which nobody likes. I get it. But I also think it'd be manageable, assuming a capable backup C is retained. That's really all you'd need in the event of a single injury to any of the three.

Yeah, I've read the counter-arguments over moving Tom. Those arguments have merit but, ultimately, the lineup I described above, if healthy, is your best possible lineup. And a damn good one, too, at the most important positions.

Gute went in front of reporters yesterday and disclosed a decision had not yet been made in regard to Bakh. I'm guessing that's true, to a point, but I also think the writing is on the wall. The cap savings is too significant for an injury plagued player, especially so since a capable replacement is already rostered. Regardless, I'll be very interested to see how Bakhtiari's season plays out, whether in GB or likely elsewhere, in regard to health and performance.

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 06:41

I think I could get excited about an O-Line that featured Bakh/Walker at the bookends and Tom at center but the likelihood of that lineup surviving the year without injury is significant. Then we get into the musical chairs lineups which nobody likes. I get it. But I also think it'd be manageable, assuming a capable backup C is retained. That's really all you'd need in the event of a single injury to any of the three.

Yeah, I've read the counter-arguments over moving Tom. Those arguments have merit but, ultimately, the lineup I described above, if healthy, is your best possible lineup. And a damn good one, too, at the most important positions.

You're discussing a $20 million plan to improve at C

If he is actually healthy I certainly wouldn't mind an all world LT even if he's been out of the game for 3 years. The better solution is moving him on to somebody else and getting a conditional pick based on his performance with them, even if you have to eat some of the salary. So hopefully Bakh has been on the phone telling AR how great his leg is.

OK I'll repost this link again, this is why we should say good bye to David Bakhtiari, not only is the risk to great, but we've been to good without him, plus we have the best draft for OL man in the last decade, we can pick up a swing tackle, we can replace JRJ, I expect a injury settlement after june 1st

this is mind boggling when ya think about it

Finally, Bakhtiari was back. Or so it seemed. Instead, Bakhtiari didn’t play another game and had another season-ending surgery in hopes of – finally – getting on the field and staying on the field.

Will he? Will it be with the Packers? The 2024 season will be his final year under contract. His cap number will inch past $40 million. That would rank eighth among quarterbacks.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/gra ... ~:text=For

Toms is to good of a tackle to ever accept center contract money, he wont take that, I can see keeping him at RT and paying him LT money to stay there, just look at these grades and tell me he doesn't deserve it, I don't think people realize just how good Tom is.

RT Zach Tom
2023 cap: $996,084. Position rank: 57th among right tackles, according to OverTheCap.com.

Tom was the 140th pick of the 2022 NFL Draft, the fourth-to-last selection of the fourth round. A lot of teams wish they could have a do-over.

As a rookie, Tom showed he was a steal. This year, he showed he’s simply one of the best offensive tackles in the NFL. Right tackle is a hugely important position. Of the nine edge defenders with at least 80 pressures this season, six rushed from the defense’s left (or against the right tackle) at least two-thirds of the time. Tom faced them all and gave up one sack in seven total matchups.

For the season, Tom allowed two sacks and 33 total pressures. In the last seven games, he allowed zero sacks and 10 pressures. Micah Parsons, Nick Bosa – you name the rusher, they found little success against Tom. Of 57 offensive tackles with 50 percent playing time, Tom ranked 13th in PFF’s pass-blocking efficiency. He was guilty of only three penalties (one holding).

Tom doesn’t have elite length or athleticism. He doesn’t have an abundance of power. And yet, pass or run, Tom got the job done. SIS charged him with 10 blown blocks (2.5 percent) and two stuffs (0.5 percent) on running plays.

He earned our highest grade on the team.

Grade: A-plus.

Gute said they are close but "not there yet" on a decision on Bak. New league year is March 13, they will release him then.

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 13:58

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 13:33

Drj820 wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 12:55

saw hes not even expected to be medically cleared until after camp. lol

Anybody that thinks magic is gonna happen on that knee at this point and he is going to perform for a full season without the weekly "who is gonna be at LT" discussion is delusional.

I would get rid of him just so we know who is playing in the spot from week to week barring a known new injury

Well if he is not medically cleared until after camp, then he can't be cut until after camp. Otherwise he files a grievance and collects his full salary of 20 mil plus his pro-rated bonus of another 20 mil.

And if he is NEVER medically cleared, he can NEVER be cut without paying him the full $40 mil.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is what I read.

I read nothing will happen till after june 1st, when we'll either kepp him, restructure him, trade him, or cut him, so if he doesn't pass a physical, the trade is most likely off the table, restructuring to lower the cap hit should we keep him if he still can't pass a physical seems to be very high risk, so cutting him with a injury settlement seems most likely.

No. Something absolutely will happen before the league year. Either a new contract with a likely minimum base with heavy incentives or he is released.

No reason to wait until June 1. There are roster bonuses that kick in at the beginning of the new league year. Gute said himself he has a clock.

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 08:17

There are roster bonuses that kick in at the beginning of the new league year.

Only $52,797

Just for when FA starts you need to know if you have additional money from Baks contact or not. The roster bonuses dont mean that much.

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 06:41

I have been a pretty vocal defender of Bakhtiari and would very much like to see him back

You have been a top fan, even to the point of criticizing those that are done with him and his games.

Its time to start accepting: its over.

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 08:17

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 13:58

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2024 13:33

Well if he is not medically cleared until after camp, then he can't be cut until after camp. Otherwise he files a grievance and collects his full salary of 20 mil plus his pro-rated bonus of another 20 mil.

And if he is NEVER medically cleared, he can NEVER be cut without paying him the full $40 mil.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is what I read.

I read nothing will happen till after june 1st, when we'll either kepp him, restructure him, trade him, or cut him, so if he doesn't pass a physical, the trade is most likely off the table, restructuring to lower the cap hit should we keep him if he still can't pass a physical seems to be very high risk, so cutting him with a injury settlement seems most likely.

No. Something absolutely will happen before the league year. Either a new contract with a likely minimum base with heavy incentives or he is released.

No reason to wait until June 1. There are roster bonuses that kick in at the beginning of the new league year. Gute said himself he has a clock.

50,000, big deal, if Gute wants to wait till June 1 to see if Bakhtiari's knee is sound that 50K wont stop him.
saying that I think your right, we are at the point were the savings out weighs the worth and it should happen before UFA so we have that cap space.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 07:25

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 06:41

I think I could get excited about an O-Line that featured Bakh/Walker at the bookends and Tom at center but the likelihood of that lineup surviving the year without injury is significant. Then we get into the musical chairs lineups which nobody likes. I get it. But I also think it'd be manageable, assuming a capable backup C is retained. That's really all you'd need in the event of a single injury to any of the three.

Yeah, I've read the counter-arguments over moving Tom. Those arguments have merit but, ultimately, the lineup I described above, if healthy, is your best possible lineup. And a damn good one, too, at the most important positions.

You're discussing a $20 million plan to improve at C

I'm discussing options for fielding the best team possible. You, otoh, are again obsessing over a salary cap crisis that doesn't exist.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 08:43

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 06:41

I have been a pretty vocal defender of Bakhtiari and would very much like to see him back

You have been a top fan, even to the point of criticizing those that are done with him and his games.

Its time to start accepting: its over.

Not "those"...you. And it's been well earned.

Its time to start accepting: its over.

Sage advice. This jilted ex-girlfriend like schtick you're playing is not healthy.

If we keep Dave Bakhtiari, and he doesn't play another year, I fear for Brian Gutekunst's wildlife, he could lose a animal or two over something like this

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 11:05

I'm discussing options for fielding the best team possible. You, otoh, are again obsessing over a salary cap crisis that doesn't exist.

I'm not at all obsessing, but it's the offseason and there was a long long conversation about how the Saints got where they are and I used them as an extreme example of some of the results of not shifting your cap priorities depending on the stage your team is currently in, as the Saints did not do after Brees left and as the Packers started to do after Rodgers, but many people are ready to push the chips back in. I think it's not the right time. And that the smaller cap moves we routinely make bother me because it's showing a habit, an approach, that we clear space when we can, not necessarily when we need it--and so to me it portends that this trend will likely continue.

But those are different topics than Bakhtiari--because $20 million is not small change. It's a large decision. It's a 1-year decision. And you are contemplating moving our best offensive lineman of the past 1-2 seasons to a less valuable position in order to make space for a $20 million guy who has played 8 games in 2.5 years and who isn't medically cleared right now... instead of, I dunno, drafting a C in the second or 3rd round?

My issues with cap management are about the overall approach. Big one-time decisions, though, get made no matter the cap approach. The Packers could have $30 million in space and they would still be weighing whether Bakhtiari's $20 additional cost to remain on the roster and $40M overall cap number due to his availability issues, stage of career, and able-bodied replacements on the roster.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 11:31

APB wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2024 11:05

I'm discussing options for fielding the best team possible. You, otoh, are again obsessing over a salary cap crisis that doesn't exist.

I'm not at all obsessing, but it's the offseason and there was a long long conversation about how the Saints got where they are and I used them as an extreme example of some of the results of not shifting your cap priorities depending on the stage your team is currently in, as the Saints did not do after Brees left and as the Packers started to do after Rodgers, but many people are ready to push the chips back in. I think it's not the right time. And that the smaller cap moves we routinely make bother me because it's showing a habit, an approach, that we clear space when we can, not necessarily when we need it--and so to me it portends that this trend will likely continue.

But those are different topics than Bakhtiari--because $20 million is not small change. It's a large decision. It's a 1-year decision. And you are contemplating moving our best offensive lineman of the past 1-2 seasons to a less valuable position in order to make space for a $20 million guy who has played 8 games in 2.5 years and who isn't medically cleared right now... instead of, I dunno, drafting a C in the second or 3rd round?

My issues with cap management are about the overall approach. Big one-time decisions, though, get made no matter the cap approach. The Packers could have $30 million in space and they would still be weighing whether Bakhtiari's $20 additional cost to remain on the roster and $40M overall cap number due to his availability issues, stage of career, and able-bodied replacements on the roster.

APB the mod is being grumpy and mad at normal off-season conversation. Just gotta roll with it.

people sure are down on Myers, reality is he is not so bad that we even need to replace him

C Josh Myers
2023 cap: $1,521,857. Position rank: 35th among centers, according to OverTheCap.com.

Through three years, it’s clear that the Packers botched the second-round decision to draft Myers over Chiefs stud Creed Humphrey. Myers is fine. He’s sharp mentally and plays with the desired physicality in the run game. He’s just not that consistent force you’d want from a premium draft pick.

Of 32 centers with 50 percent playing time, Myers ranked 18th in PFF’s pass-blocking efficiency with five sacks and 28 total pressures. With a similar snap count in 2022, he gave up three sacks and 13 total pressures. As a run blocker, he improved from 19 blown blocks to 13 (3.2 percent) and six stuffs to two (0.5 percent), according to SIS. The stuff rate was seventh-best among centers and just behind everyone’s favorite center, Jason Kelce. Three of his six penalties were for holding.

By draft pedigree, Myers has been a disappointment. For the price, however, Myers is a bargain.

Grade: B.