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Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 15:17
by Labrev
What is the thinking behind voting Jamaal Williams over AJ Dillon? Dillon is the much better talent and likely the bigger would-be benefactor should Jones miss time.
As a general rule, I disagree with the idea that rookie players are necessarily huge mystery-boxes. If you are talking about mid-to-late-round picks, UDFAs, or guys who play challenging positions, sure, that makes sense. A second-rounder who plays RB, ... not so much.
Also, one of the biggest hurdles for rookie RBs to see the field is their reliability in pass-pro, but Dillon is considered pretty competent in that department (far more than most RBs out of college).
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 15:31
by Packfntk
Labrev wrote: ↑26 May 2020 15:17
What is the thinking behind voting Jamaal Williams over AJ Dillon? Dillon is the much better talent and likely the bigger would-be benefactor should Jones miss time.
As a general rule, I disagree with the idea that rookie players are necessarily huge mystery-boxes. If you are talking about mid-to-late-round picks, UDFAs, or guys who play challenging positions, sure, that makes sense. A second-rounder who plays RB, ... not so much.
Also, one of the biggest hurdles for rookie RBs to see the field is their reliability in pass-pro, but Dillon is considered pretty competent in that department (far more than most RBs out of college).
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 15:35
by Pckfn23
Pass Protection - He's got all the frame, lower body power and functional strength you could possibly ask for. He can be a bit late to slide his feet and give up interior pressure vs. blitzers, however. If he's collected prior to contact, odds are pretty good he's going to deliver necessary stick.
Good awareness in pass protection and he has the traits needed to be an outstanding face up blocker.
Now if Dillon can develop more timing, processing and nuance then he has a chance to be a productive NFL runner that excels between the tackles and in pass protection.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/aj-dillon/W2e4IOskB1
Dillon’s lack of receiving work at Boston College hurts but he is a competent receiver and pass protector.
https://dknation.draftkings.com/2020/4/ ... y-football
Able to sort the rush and find his protection most of the time
Feet get stagnant taking on moving targets against blitz
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/algiers-d ... bd67329c54
As a pass blocker, Dillon is very capable so long as he can easily square up against the rusher. When Dillon is able to get in front of a rusher, he rolls his hips well into contact and strikes powerfully with his hands, usually stopping the defender in their tracks. Where Dillon runs into problems is when he’s forced to move laterally to get in front of a defender. Due to his limited lateral movement, Dillon sometimes struggled to reach rushers not coming directly at him and even when he was able to reach the rusher, he was often off balance. Dillon usually got enough of the rusher to prevent a sack, but he did allow more pressures than you would like to see.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/nfl- ... ving-power
Like a lot of collegiate workhorses, Dillon wasn't asked to do much in the passing game, because the offense was built around handing him the ball. That doesn't mean he can't catch, but for such a big back with question marks about his agility, it's not likely to be a strength. Not helping in this matter, his pass blocking has receiving mixed reviews.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... wn-upside/
Dillon has the size and strength to hang in there as a blocker, however, he did miss some blocks due to him not being in the best position or he was just late at times.
https://nflmocks.com/2020/01/19/2020-nf ... ng-report/
In the passing game, Dillon can bring that pop to pass rushers attempting to get to the quarterback. Doesn’t have the quickness when sliding from one side to the other but he does the job effectively for the most part. Won’t be a liability in throwing blocks in the backfield.
https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2020/03/ ... ng-report/
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Also, one of the biggest hurdles for rookie RBs to see the field is their reliability in pass-pro, but Dillon is considered pretty competent in that department (far more than most RBs out of college).
I think he may be a decent pass protector in college, but think saying he WILL be pretty competent in the NFL is overstating it. I would be shocked if Dillon was a decent enough pass protector right out of the gate that leads to him taking over for Williams. Rarely does a college back come to the NFL as polished enough pass protector to be good in that roll.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 15:43
by NCF
Personally, I think Dillon will begin to assume more of a role as the season goes on, but I expect it will be near zero at the beginning of the season. The biggest reason is there is no need to rush him unless an injury hits. I think he essentially gets a redshirt year and carves out a bigger role as November turns to December, but my expectations are low in 2020 and much, much higher in 2021.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 17:13
by Labrev
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 15:35
I think he may be a decent pass protector in college, but think saying he WILL be pretty competent in the NFL is overstating it. I would be shocked if Dillon was a decent enough pass protector right out of the gate that leads to him taking over for Williams.
Rarely does a college back come to the NFL as polished enough pass protector to be good in that roll.
That is because most college backs are an outright liability in the blocking department. Dillon is not. Some technical refinement and coaching may be needed, but he should be more than good enough to get the job done early in the season.
Then again, LaFleur
did trot out Lane Taylor's turnstile ass at LG for a few weeks even though Elgton Jenkins was outperforming him to a pretty substantial degree, so I can see MLF sticking by J-Will longer than I would. I still think Dillon will be involved fairly early on and more-or-less overtake him by year's end, though, but we'll see.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 26 May 2020 17:40
by BF004
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 27 May 2020 03:22
by TheSkeptic
I went with Lazard and I think it is a no brainer. As a near certain starter who, baring injury, will play every snap, he is the logical pick.
Next Lowry. Then Dillon.
IMO Dillon is a much better option than Williams and the last thing the Packers want to do is to over-use Jones and have him hurt when the playoffs start.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 27 May 2020 17:09
by NCF
BF004 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 17:40
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 27 May 2020 17:46
by go pak go
NCF wrote: ↑27 May 2020 17:09
BF004 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 17:40
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Agreed. Why would we ever dump someone who is a great locker room presence, offers great depth and super cheap?
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 07:11
by Packfntk
NCF wrote: ↑27 May 2020 17:09
BF004 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 17:40
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Why would that not be an option? Just asking. I think JWill is alright in all, but this team needs money and has a ton of very important contracts coming up. Why would that not be an option with Jones on the roster and when they just invested a high draft pick at the RB position?
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 07:53
by Yoop
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:11
NCF wrote: ↑27 May 2020 17:09
BF004 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 17:40
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Why would that not be an option? Just asking. I think JWill is alright in all, but this team needs money and has a ton of very important contracts coming up. Why would that not be an option with Jones on the roster and when they just invested a high draft pick at the RB position?
because there is no guarantee the #1 and 2 will stay healthy, and no reason yet to think #4 will be either healthy or any good.
and while 2.2 mil. is a lot of money, when it comes to a reliable RB that does just about everything fairly well it isn't, I can't imagine them cutting Williams, just doesn't make sense to me.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 07:56
by NCF
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:11
NCF wrote: ↑27 May 2020 17:09
BF004 wrote: ↑26 May 2020 17:40
If Dillon passes the mental pass blocking test during TC, I don’t think Williams makes the team this year with this elevated salary.
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Why would that not be an option? Just asking. I think JWill is alright in all, but this team needs money and has a ton of very important contracts coming up. Why would that not be an option with Jones on the roster and when they just invested a high draft pick at the RB position?
Because you don't throw away team depth for $2.2M which buys a cup of coffee these days. That amount of money has as close to zero impact as you can get in determining our ability to re-sign any players for upcoming seasons. Yeah, if we are perfectly healthy, maybe 3 capable guys is a glut, but there are a million other scenarios where we will be glad we held on to Williams.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:12
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:53
and while 2.2 mil. is a lot of money
It isn't.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:29
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:12
Yoop wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:53
and while 2.2 mil. is a lot of money
It isn't.
not in todays sports world.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:40
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:29
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:12
Yoop wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:53
and while 2.2 mil. is a lot of money
It isn't.
not in todays sports world.
Right. I should maybe have specified that. $2.2M would go a long way in my household, but not for the Packers salary cap.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:40
by Packfntk
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:56
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 07:11
NCF wrote: ↑27 May 2020 17:09
They are not cutting Williams to save $2.2M on the cap.
Why would that not be an option? Just asking. I think JWill is alright in all, but this team needs money and has a ton of very important contracts coming up. Why would that not be an option with Jones on the roster and when they just invested a high draft pick at the RB position?
Because you don't throw away team depth for $2.2M which buys a cup of coffee these days. That amount of money has as close to zero impact as you can get in determining our ability to re-sign any players for upcoming seasons. Yeah, if we are perfectly healthy, maybe 3 capable guys is a glut, but there are a million other scenarios where we will be glad we held on to Williams.
You think? Man, to save the 2.2M, and if you need depth, or due to injury there are a plethora of backs on the wire, just sitting there that would take the vets minimum that could step in and fill JW role easily IMO.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:46
by NCF
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:40
You think? Man, to save the 2.2M, and if you need depth, or due to injury there are a plethora of backs on the wire, just sitting there that would take the vets minimum that could step in and fill JW role easily IMO.
And what is vet's minimum? $1M? So net savings now down to $1.2M. That is what? 1/5 of a replacement level starter at some positions and about 1/10 of a quality starter. That is about 1/16 of what Kenny Clark will get, maybe 1/8 of what Aaron Jones will get... similar for Corey Linsley. I just don't see where we look back and say, "Ah, thank God we cut Jamaal Williams, or we never would have been able to afford re-signing this guy."
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:51
by Packfntk
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:46
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:40
You think? Man, to save the 2.2M, and if you need depth, or due to injury there are a plethora of backs on the wire, just sitting there that would take the vets minimum that could step in and fill JW role easily IMO.
And what is vet's minimum? $1M? So net savings now down to $1.2M. That is what? 1/5 of a replacement level starter at some positions and about 1/10 of a quality starter. That is about 1/16 of what Kenny Clark will get, maybe 1/8 of what Aaron Jones will get... similar for Corey Linsley. I just don't see where we look back and say, "Ah, thank God we cut Jamaal Williams, or we never would have been able to afford re-signing this guy."
But these are the decisions that GM's and Director of Football Operations have to make. In the grand scheme of things, 1.2M may not seem like much. But when you are up against the cap like we are, these can be savvy moves. make a couple of these moves and you can suddenly afford your guys, don't do them and watch your home grown talent walk out the door or put yourself in a brutal situation cap wise.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 08:52
by NCF
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:51
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:46
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:40
You think? Man, to save the 2.2M, and if you need depth, or due to injury there are a plethora of backs on the wire, just sitting there that would take the vets minimum that could step in and fill JW role easily IMO.
And what is vet's minimum? $1M? So net savings now down to $1.2M. That is what? 1/5 of a replacement level starter at some positions and about 1/10 of a quality starter. That is about 1/16 of what Kenny Clark will get, maybe 1/8 of what Aaron Jones will get... similar for Corey Linsley. I just don't see where we look back and say, "Ah, thank God we cut Jamaal Williams, or we never would have been able to afford re-signing this guy."
But these are the decisions that GM's and Director of Football Operations have to make. In the grand scheme of things, 1.2M may not seem like much. But when you are up against the cap like we are, these can be savvy moves. make a couple of these moves and you can suddenly afford your guys, don't do them and watch your home grown talent walk out the door or put yourself in a brutal situation cap wise.
Well, if we cut 16 of these guys I will concede. Otherwise, I am not buying it.
Re: Rank the Roster 2020: #18
Posted: 28 May 2020 09:04
by Packfntk
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:52
Packfntk wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:51
NCF wrote: ↑28 May 2020 08:46
And what is vet's minimum? $1M? So net savings now down to $1.2M. That is what? 1/5 of a replacement level starter at some positions and about 1/10 of a quality starter. That is about 1/16 of what Kenny Clark will get, maybe 1/8 of what Aaron Jones will get... similar for Corey Linsley. I just don't see where we look back and say, "Ah, thank God we cut Jamaal Williams, or we never would have been able to afford re-signing this guy."
But these are the decisions that GM's and Director of Football Operations have to make. In the grand scheme of things, 1.2M may not seem like much. But when you are up against the cap like we are, these can be savvy moves. make a couple of these moves and you can suddenly afford your guys, don't do them and watch your home grown talent walk out the door or put yourself in a brutal situation cap wise.
Well, if we cut 16 of these guys I will concede. Otherwise, I am not buying it.
Oh, that is a little bit of an overreaction, don't you think? Just discussing making smart business decisions, and cutting corners where you can to save a buck.
