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Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.go pak go wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:28So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.
What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?
Here is a bit on Vic Fangio defenses...might help to see what the plan is for us.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:30Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.go pak go wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:28So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.
What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?
nothing can hurt Jaire, he can do either of man or zone, imho King and also Jackson are more protected in a zone scheme, as this article says cover 2 describes the short and deep coverage, 2 deep safety's and 5 zones laterally underneath, it shrinks those zones with hopes of less empty spaces, so sure I'd think it would help not only them but other less able CB's, plus with that added over head assurance of safety backup your corners are able to gamble a bit more.go pak go wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:28So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.
What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?
Thank you for brining in these articles.kampmanfan4life wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 14:12Here is a bit on Vic Fangio defenses...might help to see what the plan is for us.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:30Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.go pak go wrote: ↑07 Feb 2021 10:28So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.
What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?
https://beargoggleson.com/2015/01/21/vi ... e-scheme/
https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/5/2 ... -coverages
Outside Linebackers:In Fangio’s scheme, the NT (#90 above) lines up off the center’s shoulder on the strong-side (same side as TE) and is only responsible for the gap in front of him. This requires a different type of NT as opposed to the classic space-eater used in standard 3-4 schemes. The NT in Fangio’s scheme needs to have the quickness to beat interior lineman off the snap and the strength to hold his ground against double-teams in the run game.
In Fangio’s scheme one of the DEs moves inside to the 3-tech DT position. The 3-tech DT (#91) lines up between the guard and tackle on the weak side and is ideally the D-line’s best pass rusher. The 3-tech DT’s responsibility is to generate interior pressure on pass plays and get in the backfield to disrupt the running game. The 3rd D-lineman in Fangio’s scheme (#94) is close to a standard 3-4 DE but usually shades the strong-side tackle’s outside shoulder. The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers.
Inside Linebackers:The outside linebackers in Fangio’s scheme have two distinct roles. The OLBs basically rotate between stand-up defensive ends and run-stoppers with occasional zone coverage responsibilities depending on which side the TE lines up on. The strong-side OLB (whatever side the TE lines up on) will jam the TE and then drop back into a short zone on pass plays to defend against slants, screens, etc, or maintain the edge on a run play. The weak-side OLB (opposite side of TE) will move up to the line of scrimmage to be a stand-up DE (4th D-lineman) and his role is to rush the QB. The Niners used Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks at OLB and they are both excellent pass rushers who are athletic enough to either pressure the QB as a stand-up DE or drop back in short zone coverage if they are on the strong-side. Fangio doesn’t ask his OLBs to cover anyone man-to-man which opens up the position to players who would be considered tweeners in standard 4-3 or 3-4 schemes.
CBs:The inside linebackers do have more coverage responsibility than in a standard 3-4 and are also asked to blitz occasionally. Most 3-4 schemes look for at least one big run-stuffer inside, but Fangio’s scheme required elite athleticism from both his ILBs since they will often cover TEs or RBs. They also have inside gap responsibility vs the run and will occasionally switch to OLB in certain alignments, so they need to be elite athletes who can cover, stop the run, and get to the QB. In San Fran ILBs Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman were both high-level athletes and All-Pro players.
Safeties:Fangio’s 49er teams ran cover 2 fairly often. He also ran plenty of press coverage and bump-and-run, so at least there will be some variety in the coverage schemes this year. Due to his preference for press coverage, the Bears will be looking for big physical corners who can play zone, contribute against the run, and obviously press cover. Four of the seven CBs on the Niners roster last year were 6 foot tall or over and none were shorter than 5’10. Fangio seems to prefer big corners who can slow up receivers at the line but still have the ability to drop back into zone coverage.
Overall:Fangio likes his safeties to be interchangeable. That will be hard with the Bears current roster since none of the current safeties are starting-caliber at either position. On early downs Fangio likes to have the strong safety in the box, but he disguises it well and occasionally moves the free safety into the box instead.
Another key difference between the normal 4-3 under scheme and Vic Fangio’s version is versatility. He requires most of his defenders to play multiple positions on all three levels of the defense. Fangio would often switch Smith and Ray McDonald between the 3-tech and 5-tech positions based on match-ups. The NT is locked in place but the other two D-lineman need to be able to switch spots, his OLBs need to be able to play stand-up DE, his ILBs need to be able to play OLB at times, and his two starting safeties need to be interchangeable. Fangio’s defense thrives on the ability to change their scheme at any time and disguise what they are doing pre-snap. Without versatile players his disguised alignments will be more transparent. Fangio’s consistently changing schemes are going to be a welcome addition to Bears fans who are used to watching the same defensive alignment over and over again (good riddance Mel!).
Fangio is great at confusing offenses with disguised coverages and adjusting his schemes on a play-to-play basis. It will take some creative moves by new GM Ryan Pace to give Fangio players with the versatility and talent that he needs to implement his scheme.
Yoop wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 08:52just attempting to get more info on Joe Barry, if anything it's hard to pigeon hole any one type scheme to Barry, he's tutored and learned from some of the very best, and in a variety of defensive schemes, in that way I think his experience attracted MLF.
Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms
“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”
If you didn’t know any better, you might think he was talking about the last two seasons with Pettine. Critics of his defenses in Washington suggested he wasn’t aggressive enough, wouldn’t take chances or play outside his scheme. Sounding familiar?
Still, McVay thought enough of him to bring him to Los Angeles and tag him with the ‘assistant head coach’ title. There, he coached under notoriously aggressive Wade Phillips, the man Barry beat out to be Washington DC the first time. That’s when he crossed paths with LaFleur, coached up players like Corey Littleton to go from UDFA to Pro Bowl caliber and stayed on when McVay made the switch to Staley before last offsason.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/pack ... m-leonahrd
if people havn't read this acme article ya should, it describes what we can expect from Barry, heres some more good stuff.
According to Tom Silverstein, the connection to Staley drove LaFleur’s interest both in Barry and Rams safeties coach Ejiro Evero. McVay loves the two-high coverage-disguise defense so much, he hired Raheem Morris—a Tampa-2 disciple like Barry— but insisted on keeping the philosophy. In fact, Barry coached under Morris in Tampa after the Detroit situation soured (0-16 seasons with do that).
The Francois quote jibes with how the Rams looked last season, though Staley made the calls not Barry. L.A. played light boxes over 80% of the time last year, the most in the league with Fangio’s Broncos right behind. Still this was a top-5 run defense because of how they attack OL gaps and used their team speed. Imagine how jealous Pettine must have been about a team with no stud linebacker, playing a bunch of sub-package and still stopping the run effectively.
Love this! Been wanting a penetrating run defense for ages!Still this was a top-5 run defense because of how they attack OL gaps and used their team speed.
I'm not smart enough to know this stuff. There are lot here who are way smarter than me.
The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers.
Also a very good point. Lowry is much better suited as a 5 tech. instead of a 3.NCF wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:55I actually think if they play this kind of defense, Dean Lowry fits really well. Double-teams when you are talking about an OT and a TE is not the same as C/G or G/T. When Pettine did play Dean as a true 5T in base, he always fared much, much better than he did when they tried playing him as a 3T in subs. Still, I agree, they can get better there, for sure.
Player matchups don't seem to far off