Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 16:20

go pak go wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 16:04

He will be successful.

I am worried Packers fans will chase him out of town though and not give him enough time. I am not going to make really too much judgement on him until the 2023 season.

I will expect growing pains until then. I don't foresee a lot of my fellow Packers fans being as generous.

fans are not going to give Love 3 years, in fact, we'll be looking for a new QB if Love doesn't get us in the PO this year, I think You and others here are just hoping Love pans out, and I don't blame anyone for hoping that, I do to, but as I said it's a tough call because most don't pan out.

Absolutely. I LOVED watching Rodgers grow. My favorite era as a Packers fan was 2007 - 2010. 2009 I think is such an underrated season. The ups. The downs. Watching what was being built and putting up with the sh*t from everyone else saying how dumb the Packers were when I knew in my heart what the Packers were building and then being validated in 2010 and then just thinking "holy &%$@....how many rings is this TT/MM/Rodgers era gonna win?"

It was so much fun.

I think the TEAM will be “successful” with Love at the helm albeit I highly doubt he will perform at a level commensurate to Favre or Rodgers. I mean, those guys are generational players.

The beauty of it, though, is that he doesn’t need to play at that level. All we need is competent play in a highly adaptive scheme - tailor-made for QBs, mind you - along with a running game and capable defense and this TEAM can compete with anybody.

So yeah, I translate that to expecting Love to be a successful QB.

I don't see how anyone can answer this question without seeing him throw a football in a Packers uniform yet.

I mean, sure I can flip coins too, but I would just have absolutely nothing I am basing my decision off of.

I can sure tell you I'm gunna be his biggest fan when he gets his shot and I'm gunna root for him hard. But I have zero clue.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 19:09

I don't see how anyone can answer this question without seeing him throw a football in a Packers uniform yet.

I mean, sure I can flip coins too, but I would just have absolutely nothing I am basing my decision off of.

I can sure tell you I'm gunna be his biggest fan when he gets his shot and I'm gunna root for him hard. But I have zero clue.

Okay educational fan.

But I saw him throw at a net the other day so.....

the team can carry Love till we meet a defense that forces us to pass to win, till then it's a guess as to how well Love will do.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 19:09

I don't see how anyone can answer this question without seeing him throw a football in a Packers uniform yet.

I mean, sure I can flip coins too, but I would just have absolutely nothing I am basing my decision off of.

I can sure tell you I'm gunna be his biggest fan when he gets his shot and I'm gunna root for him hard. But I have zero clue.

The same way we evaluate QBs before the draft and discuss them.

It's pretty easy to have an opinion.

I'm torn on my answer because more than almost anyone I know in football fandom, I am a very firm believer that there is a LOT to learn before and without stepping foot on an NFL gameday field. I think that any QB not taken in the top 3 should sit for a year--definitely those taken outside of the top 10. I think that a rookie's "success" may often come at the expense of their future development because your body and motor skill memory trains under stress and reverts back to the lessons learned under stress when re-experiencing stress. I've learned that in the Army and in kineseology-based courses in my sports studies curriculum at UGA.

When a QB comes into the league with an assortment of bad habits, it is essential to unlearn and re-work those habits before they perform in a live setting with high-pressure. Sometimes, a QB has less to "unlearn" and less to "learn," then they can make those adjustments relatively quickly--say a season on the bench. But sometimes, a guy has some really rough mechanics (or really specific, overly mechanical ones like, say, a Tedford system QB). For those players, I think 2 years is the right amount of time to first unlearn the habits and adjust to the speed of the NFL, and then re-build good habits and gain experience in processing the scheme as it rolls out in front of him on the field.

I always viewed Jordan Love as a 2-year guy. The reason I did was because after showing IMMENSE natural talent as a sophomore, when everything changed (his coach, Gary Anderson of Wisconsin infamy; his whole OL; 2 of his top 4 WRs; his TE; his RB), he reverted to a ton of REALLY bad habits. He admits it. He forced too much; tried to make every play on his own. Basically he played with a Favre 2005 mentality (that was the 29-INT year, right?). Basically thinking "I don't know these guys; we aren't on the same page; the scheme stinks; we're underdogs in every game... let's go out there and wing it"

A former QB coach is his head coach; a former QB coach is his OC; and he has a QB coach. That is how it's been in Green Bay for a long time. We focus on the QB position and we focus on development. We believe in taking time to develop them. Under Ron Wolf, we moved late round guys like Matt Hasselbeck and Aaron Brooks and Mark Brunell for higher picks after developing them and teaching them our system.

Under MM, we got a pretty decent comp pick for developing 7th rounder Matt Flynn into a guy who could compete for a starting job in the league briefly.

Under MLF, TBLS got a contract with a division rival as a backup without ever having shown anything on the football field.

And as I have shown many times, the odds of a QB becoming ELITE--like truly HoF possibilities--seems obviously higher for QBs that don't start as rookies, such as Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, and Mahomes. As opposed to Wilson, P. Manning and Roethlisberger.

So I believe in the process. And I believe that Love has the talent. I am genuinely concerned with whether or not Love has had enough time in the process to enter a starting lineup without potentially negative impacts on his ceiling. I think he had a lot to unlearn; and a lot to learn. If Love became the Packers starter in 2022, I predict a career that reaches multiple pro bowls. If he starts in 2021, I'm not sure. Success, but I'm not sure.

YoHoChecko wrote: Success, but I'm not sure.

That was a lot of words to get to the same place the rest of us are at.

I went back and looked at his NFL.com scouting report a few weeks back. I hadn't looked through it in a while. I am kind of lukewarm on him as a prospect. Nice physical tools, some flaws that are coachable, a few issues that seem here to stay. (Pro Comp was Blake Bortles lmao).

That said, a QB could hardly ask for a better situation. His supporting cast is great, top to bottom. His coach is a former QB and QB coach with a very QB-friendly scheme. We also have Luke Getsy in the fold who is a good one. He also got to sit and learn behind one of the best at his craft for a year.

The only thing that isn't enviable is that he will have big shoes to fill. Whatever. Rodgers also had to deal with that. Even when he had clearly established himself as a good player, he still had nay-sayers for a while until 2010-11 finally shut them up.

Flag:
I think my O/U baseline expectation for him is Jimmy Garoppolo -- QB with a nice physical make up, but needed improvement with the on-field mental aspect of the game. I will be optimistic and go with him being a better version of that player.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 20:47

I always viewed Jordan Love as a 2-year guy. The reason I did was because after showing IMMENSE natural talent as a sophomore, when everything changed (his coach, Gary Anderson of Wisconsin infamy; his whole OL; 2 of his top 4 WRs; his TE; his RB), he reverted to a ton of REALLY bad habits. He admits it. He forced too much; tried to make every play on his own. Basically he played with a Favre 2005 mentality (that was the 29-INT year, right?). Basically thinking "I don't know these guys; we aren't on the same page; the scheme stinks; we're underdogs in every game... let's go out there and wing it"


So I believe in the process. And I believe that Love has the talent. I am genuinely concerned with whether or not Love has had enough time in the process to enter a starting lineup without potentially negative impacts on his ceiling. I think he had a lot to unlearn; and a lot to learn. If Love became the Packers starter in 2022, I predict a career that reaches multiple pro bowls. If he starts in 2021, I'm not sure. Success, but I'm not sure.

Yeah I keep saying it over and over. Rodgers just looked bad in 2005 and 2006. I liked how he commanded the huddle but that's honestly about it.

His feet were terrible. His ball was still held up by his head the Tedford way and the game was too fast for him.

The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope if Love is forced to start this year is he is in the MLF system with two really, really good RBs, a really reliable WR and another slot WR who is great after the catch. Add in a speedy threat that can take advantage of the occasional long ball (which Love is really good at), it might just set Love up for success.

If the defense can keep games at that "24 points and we win" and not get us down by more than 10 points, Love may have a shot at not ruining himself in the long run. Just hand off the ball.

What's crazy to me is how we, as a fanbase CLEARLY understand that when a roster and coaching staff totally fall apart around a talented QB, it will lead to a big downturn in that QB's performance.... We watched it happen to Favre and to Rodgers, both of whom were able to bounce back and play well again later in their careers.

But many draftniks, analysts, and posters here like bud seem to think that the circumstances around Jordan Love's junior year discount the talent and success he displayed in his sophomore year.

Now, decision-making, field awareness, and moving through progressions are things that require more experience, more consistency, and more coaching. That's why QBs who are one-year wonders in college are riskier than those with a larger body of work. Those may or may not be healed, and the degree to which they are healed may vary. But it's often said that you scout talent by looking at their BEST years. Jordan Love's 2018 sophomore season was the sort of season that makes one a top ten pick. That his 2019 season (which was definitely bad) only dropped him as far as 26th overall is a testament to just how good 2018 was, and how much upside and potential and talent he displayed.

I think he will be successful but there will be growing pains in his first year. But because of draft picks and salary cap freedom, the Packers will be much better off with Love a year from now.

I'm reading through the offseason reports from Mahomes' second year to see how people were talking in minicamps and stuff. Matt Miller, a guy I like, was buying the hype. Anonymous coachers would comment on him being the real deal.

But day to day beat writers were really concerned about how many interceptions he throws in practices. In training camp, he hit 7 INTs in 6 practices.

A rival GM expected the team to win 7-10 games depending on the defense.

The no-look "I can't believe he did that" plays were noted upon all along. But the consistency and turnover plays gave many pause.

Always good to ground yourself in the never-ceasing uncertainty of what is to come.

I haven't heard about the Love wow plays in OTAs

I know that in Mahomes final season in Big 12 he led the conference in yards, attempts and tds against Baker Mayfield.

In Loves final season in the Mountain West he only led the conference in interceptions against Cole Mcdonald (leading QB in conf).

As long as success is being something better than average, yeah sure he will be a success. Now had we kept the Laser Show it would have been lights out another HOFer.

bud fox wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 23:08

I haven't heard about the Love wow plays in OTAs

Why even say this? "Wow" plays in OTAs?

The players don't even hardly jog in OTAs. 7 on 7 walkthroughs is the most intense session of OTAs. Oh and Chris Blair and Reggie Beggleton are the biggest name WRs.

I have suffured through 3 years of hearing complaining that not having a #2 WR is holding Rodgers back but now the expectation is Love is supposed to wow play in one 90 minute OTA practice where it's educational walkthroughs with Beggleton and Blair as the WRs.

Like seriously. Here I am saying give him a few years and you won't even give him until June.

The only thing we know is he does seem to have good zip on his ball, his feet work looks better, and he has more confidence and command in the huddle than last August. Which isn't hard because Mike Spofford said he got more work on Tuesday's OTA practice than he did all TC last summer combined in terms of 7 on 7/ 11 on 11 reps.

bud fox wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 23:08

I haven't heard about the Love wow plays in OTAs

I know that in Mahomes final season in Big 12 he led the conference in yards, attempts and tds against Baker Mayfield.

In Loves final season in the Mountain West he only led the conference in interceptions against Cole Mcdonald (leading QB in conf).

Do you refuse to look at the team around Love, and think all QBs should do the same regardless of the talent around them? By that logic, why the heck are people complaining about lack of talent around AR!? He should need no WR2... Heck, why bother investing in OL or running game either...

Watch any film of Love's final season and you'll quickly see that he had crap around him that final season. OL was horrible as were the receivers. Often top program college QBs have all day to throw behind a 5-star OL and such superior WR talent they don't even have to go through their progressions. Love did have to go through his progressions and still there often was no one open, and this while being under pressure or scrambling.

In Mahomes' last college season, their other QB Nic Shimonek (hardly NFL material) managed a 163.4 passer rating, 6 TDs and 1 INT. Mahomes had no business throwing as many INTs as he did with all that talent around him. Heck, Love and Mahomes ended up with the exact same amount of INTs in their respective 3-year college careers. I'd be fine with Love becoming only as good as Mahomes in the NFL...

Still, Love's INTs are a worrisome thing since there were some where he misread the D or got jabaited. That can't happen in the NFL, and likely why he fell in the draft and why he needs development. If he can overcome that, the arm talent is definitely there.

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 May 2021 06:08

bud fox wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 23:08

I haven't heard about the Love wow plays in OTAs

Why even say this? "Wow" plays in OTAs?

The players don't even hardly jog in OTAs. 7 on 7 walkthroughs is the most intense session of OTAs. Oh and Chris Blair and Reggie Beggleton are the biggest name WRs.

I have suffured through 3 years of hearing complaining that not having a #2 WR is holding Rodgers back but now the expectation is Love is supposed to wow play in one 90 minute OTA practice where it's educational walkthroughs with Beggleton and Blair as the WRs.

Like seriously. Here I am saying give him a few years and you won't even give him until June.

The only thing we know is he does seem to have good zip on his ball, his feet work looks better, and he has more confidence and command in the huddle than last August. Which isn't hard because Mike Spofford said he got more work on Tuesday's OTA practice than he did all TC last summer combined in terms of 7 on 7/ 11 on 11 reps.

Just referencing yoho Mahomes comments and I don't see any similarities

To be fair I’m looking at Mahomes stuff not for similarities, but to get a feel for who knew what when.

Like the guy won MVP right out the gates, and some people in training camp were writing articles about whether or not his interceptions were a problem. And Andy Reid talked FREQUENTLY about how much growth he has left to do and how there will be growing pains.

But it’s true. The wow play comments also permeated the Mahomes coverage. I just thought it was an interesting way to ground myself in how little is known right now, and how long it will be before anyone knows more. Bringing up Mahomes was just a way to remind some that even if Love is GREAT you’re still going to read questions and uncertainty and hear about how he has a long way to go all summer long. That doesn’t mean he IS great. But it does mean there’s not a lot to read into with comments right now.

In my opinion, everything that comes from the team about Love is hardly encouraging. We have heard out loud that he still has a long way to go. Lafleur yesterday was doing a word salad dance trying find a way to be encouraged. We have heard he throwing into nets about 10 yards away and not hitting them 100%.

Im not saying all these things equal that he sucks..just that the vibe is MUCH different in my opinion to the vibe around Mahommes after his rookie year. And again, Mahommes played some his rookie year and won the #2 job. Love couldnt beat out Boyle who the team let walk for free at the end of the year.

The energy doesnt feel the same at all to me.

Because Mahomes had rookie offseason program, a rookie preseason, a rookie start at the end of the season, and a year as the #2.

The team knew more about Mahomes than our team knows about Love. That’s one thing.

And two. Love isn’t ready. He would have benefited from one more year in large part BECAUSE of the things I mentioned up top that he didn’t experience.

Also, Mahomes there 50 TDs and won MVP in his first year as a starter. So comparing him to Mahomes in excitement is a high bar. I regret doing it. I had a very specific purpose for bringing him up (even the best case scenario was a mostly unknown before preseason with comments about his growing pains and questions about his interceptions). Any broader use of comparing Mahomes and Love is going to lend itself to disappointment. Because it’s a comparison to the highest possible bar