Packers Huddle

La coach has some improving to do

I call this “singing the praises” of Barry, and that’s totally fine…because last year he did well.

This is a D that lost its 2 best pass rushers in the last 2 seasons, Z to the salary cap and Gary to a major injury. It is also a team that lost its #2 CB to injury. Still, they performed well at the end of the season, winning several games with very little help from the O. It is possible that the players forced Barry to change at the end of the season, but whatever the reason, it worked. If you rewatch the last 2 games, this clearly is a D good enough for the playoffs. What they did to the Vikings is amazing. Holding Detroit to 20 points when the O folded in the second half is amazing.

I won't say he deserves another season, but risk-reward says that he stays. There is reward if he has had his Come to Jesus moment and has become a better coach. There is much more risk in replacing him.

I agree, he did a great job that 2nd Minny game. But I can't forget about the 1st minny game and a dozen others where the defense was really bad. And he had Stokes and Gary at the time.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 01:21

This is a D that lost its 2 best pass rushers in the last 2 seasons, Z to the salary cap and Gary to a major injury. It is also a team that lost its #2 CB to injury. Still, they performed well at the end of the season, winning several games with very little help from the O. It is possible that the players forced Barry to change at the end of the season, but whatever the reason, it worked. If you rewatch the last 2 games, this clearly is a D good enough for the playoffs. What they did to the Vikings is amazing. Holding Detroit to 20 points when the O folded in the second half is amazing.

I won't say he deserves another season, but risk-reward says that he stays. There is reward if he has had his Come to Jesus moment and has become a better coach. There is much more risk in replacing him.

this is my point, even with a defense as poor as ours was at times this season if the OL had been just a little better, and the young receivers had a little more chemistry with Rodgers we surely would have won more games, ya don't need either of offense or defense to be top 5 or better, simply better balance between both is a winning formula.

Barry has to go, risk reward is that he wont listen to his players again until he is forced to do so, his track record is lousy, these players under a guy like Evero would have been top 10 or better even with the loss of Gary and Stokes, who Douglas replaced pretty well.

why is it Packer fans are so satisfied with mediocre results from our coaches and GM's, and such critics of the players? ya don't question the &%$@ show drafts, lack of drafting quality receivers, ya support a jerk like Barry, while Lafleur and Rodgers are stifled with crap at WR, arguably one of the most important positions on the whole freaking team, you people that support the crap thats been going on deserve to sit and root for some other team in the PO's

AmishMafia wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:31

I agree, he did a great job that 2nd Minny game. But I can't forget about the 1st minny game and a dozen others where the defense was really bad. And he had Stokes and Gary at the time.

I give credit to the players for the defensive turn around since the bye, do people actually think these cover 2 and cover six schemes where concocted by this DC, they been around and used for decades in college and pro ball.

what we've seen from Barry is a rerun of his earlier failures as DC, actually worse, because he's had better talent to work with.

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:40

AmishMafia wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:31

I agree, he did a great job that 2nd Minny game. But I can't forget about the 1st minny game and a dozen others where the defense was really bad. And he had Stokes and Gary at the time.

I give credit to the players for the defensive turn around since the bye, do people actually think these cover 2 and cover six schemes where concocted by this DC, they been around and used for decades in college and pro ball.

what we've seen from Barry is a rerun of his earlier failures as DC, actually worse, because he's had better talent to work with.

So the players were calling the defensive plays?

I'm with you on getting rid of joe bury. Not sure I understand your take in the turnaround.

AmishMafia wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 09:11

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:40

AmishMafia wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:31

I agree, he did a great job that 2nd Minny game. But I can't forget about the 1st minny game and a dozen others where the defense was really bad. And he had Stokes and Gary at the time.

I give credit to the players for the defensive turn around since the bye, do people actually think these cover 2 and cover six schemes where concocted by this DC, they been around and used for decades in college and pro ball.

what we've seen from Barry is a rerun of his earlier failures as DC, actually worse, because he's had better talent to work with.

So the players were calling the defensive plays?

I'm with you on getting rid of joe bury. Not sure I understand your take in the turnaround.

well no, Barry obviously is calling the formations and coverages based on what the players have convinced him will work better then his cover 3, players like ours ( Alexander, Douglas, specially ) want to play man coverage, they hate the confusion of coverage hand offs and zone transitions, where if the safety isn't on the same page receivers run free in wide open spaces, which we have seen for most of the season, well at least up to the bye and now again more of that crap in our last game with Detroit.

when Lafleur was asked if Barry will stay, he gave a coach speak answer, I doubt he's sure yet what he will do, but with Barry going back to calling that cover 3 so much against Detroit with those 6 to 8 yrd cushions on short yardage 3rd and 4th downs, thats got to give him pause, Barry will revert right back to what hasn't worked in the past, here or any where else.

Wasn’t it week 9 or 10 (I forget when exactly) before our D pivoted from AWFUL to good? Maybe that kind of thing is to be expected in a DC’s first season. But not in the second.

There’s 5% of me that says it’s okay to keep Barry. But I’d like to be in the room when he and MLF and Guty all do a self-scout for 2022. It’s gonna be ugly for a long while before it gets good.

I can even appreciate how they played against Detroit. Still need to get better. A D that has two stupid penalties gives up more points than a D that doesn’t make stupid mistakes. And there was too much stupid going around in 2022.

Defense should be better with the amount of draft and free agent capital that has been used for that side of the ball.

Coach should be sacked and then GM if isn't an immediate improvement.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/0 ... joe-barry/
We played a ton of basket case offenses in the second half of the year. Barry is a mediocre coach at best. Get a guy in who can make the offenses react to what we are doing for once. We should be a top five D.

Cdragon wrote: ↑

12 Jan 2023 11:07

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/0 ... joe-barry/
We played a ton of basket case offenses in the second half of the year. Barry is a mediocre coach at best. Get a guy in who can make the offenses react to what we are doing for once. We should be a top five D.

This. Even if we don’t get top 5 level, if you have a D that does more dictating of pressures and uncertainty upon the offense, rather than being passive, then you have a good defense. Be willing to take a little more risk so that you can perform better as a team. Simply, that is called “competition.”
:-)

Acme Packers is doing a series on Joe Barry defense, part 1 is up

personnel matching vs various offensive packages

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023 ... posing-wrs

On the defensive side of the ball, personnel packages can generally be indexed into three groups: base defenses (four defensive backs), nickel defenses (five defensive backs) and dime defenses (six defensive backs). There are variations inside each of those groups, but if you’re looking at how defenses match the number of opposing receivers on the field, you really only need the count of defensive backs.

here's dime vs 11 personnel

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Q0WcUkb ... /Light.jpg

I swiped this one from MrBobGray, a very astute football guy and Packer fan.
I hope he doesn't mind me re-posting it, but he did a great job comparing and contrasting offense/defense across a couple of key stats

"More notes on Packers 2022 offense and defense:

The offense finished 20th in 1st downs gained. The defense finished 10th.
The offense finished 17th in 3rd down %, the defense finished 8th.
The offense finished 28th in 4th down %, the defense finished 23rd.
The offense finished 24th in red zone TD %, the defense finished 13th.
The offense had the 6th best starting position per drive this season. They were 16th in % of drives ending in a score.
Defense had the 19th best starting position in football per drive. They were 10th in % of drives ending in a score.
The offense finished 17th in turnover %. The defense finished 7th."

There are many other stats available, so you can certainly paint a different picture if you'd like.
I just think its illuminating to see it all laid out - and to compare the relative success of each of the units over the 2022 season.
.

When Packer fans call for the head of the D-Coord, it's because 9 times out of 10, they have an unrealistic expectation of how good the defense can/should be in a given year.

This is the 1 time out of 10 where Packer fans' expectation is correct. Whereas the formula for winning in GB is usually an amazing offense and just a good enough defense, this year the defense needed to be amazing (in-line with Packer fans' usually unrealistic expectation every year) while the O just good enough to win with. We knew the O would take a significant step back without Adams, and we invested heavily into the other side of the ball.

The O was not good enough to win with for the first half of the season or the last game, and that's a big reason we went 8-9. They were the worse half of the team, no question, but that is largely irrelevant because the D had a different standard to live up to.

.
Per NFL stats, Jalen Hurts converted 36 of 40 quarterback sneaks this season, and six of his 10 rushing first downs in the Super Bowl came via quarterback sneaks.

(2) of the 4 QB sneaks that were stuffed...came from the defense of the Mighty Green Bay Packers.
So we got that going for us, which is nice

from the internet

Percentage of pass-rush snaps resulting in a pressure:

Weeks 1-9: Packers ranked 2nd in NFL

...Then Rashan Gary tears ACL...

Weeks 10-18: Packers ranked 28th in NFL

BSA wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2023 13:07

from the internet

Percentage of pass-rush snaps resulting in a pressure:

Weeks 1-9: Packers ranked 2nd in NFL

...Then Rashan Gary tears ACL...

Weeks 10-18: Packers ranked 28th in NFL

Yeah, right around the time Preston and Kenny both went from having good years, to below their expectations.

McCarthy - Everyone in the NFL is good, then you have your great players, then you have your exceptional players that make everyone around them better.

I'm sure I butchered that.

BSA wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2023 13:07

from the internet

Percentage of pass-rush snaps resulting in a pressure:

Weeks 1-9: Packers ranked 2nd in NFL

...Then Rashan Gary tears ACL...

Weeks 10-18: Packers ranked 28th in NFL

Which is wild because that’s also the time period where the secondary finally started playing better and the defense as a unit improved (due to some changes outlined in some articles you’ve already posted).

The defense where the back 7 played like weeks 10-18 and the front 4 played like weeks 1-9 with Gary is the defense I expected to see last season.

And if we plug a hole at safety adequately, it’s the defense I expect to see again soon