Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:35

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:32

BF004 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:29

FWIW, Devin Funchess reported he will be at mandatory OTA's on Monday.

Good. He needs to be.

Surely everybody but maybe the disgruntled QB will be there right?

I kind of hope he isnt there for a while so we can get a real good look at Love with the 1s. We know Rodgers can show up Sept 1 and be just fine.

Best thing to get Rodgers back would be for Love to look really good.

Acrobat wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2021 11:38

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2021 11:36

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 Jun 2021 11:28

the season last year ended with Rodgers trying to find a target from the 8 yrd line, 3 times and we kicked a FG, we had lost our #1 RB, had our #1 receiver draped all game, and had no one really ever get open on schedule on those 3 plays, yet it's the contention around here that a quality slot receiver was never missed last year at any time, sorry again no sale.

There is literally not a single contention that we couldn't use a better slot receiver and everyone loves the Amari Rodgers pick.

But your insistence on not pointing out that not once, but twice, inside the ten yard line, the Packers/Rodgers were unable to get a TD without including that Rodgers, the QB, had, ya know, something to do with that (and your decision to ignore that we had one of the top red zone TD rates ALL SEASON last year) show that you have emotionally bound yourself to blindspots in your critique. There's nothing objective happening anymore.

Maybe a better receiver would have gotten a TD there. But a better decision by our QB, better ball placement on a couple throws, no drops by Adams... it's fine if you want to say that the red zone possession(s) would have yielded TDs with a better slot receiver. But you also have to acknowledge that they easily could and should have yielded TDs with the players who actually existed on our team at the time, regardless of any sort of imaginary couterfactual anyone wants to type up

If the front office was better, Rodgers would have ran it in for a TD.

Somebody probably already answered to this, but that is what Aaron SHOULD'VE done. He had room to run on a previous play. Maybe not enough to score. But definitely enough to get close. And he didn't.

That's why we should trade him. He didn't try to "Elway" himself into the end zone.
;-)

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 08:54

I doubt it for the mandatory OTA's, maybe, but 93 K is chump change for Rodgers, and since he knows most of the installs he isn't losing much sitting out, I think he comes back for the start of TC, people are right to say he has no leverage, I expect he'll play out this season and ask for a trade prior to next years draft when there will be plenty of bidding for his services, if he really wanted out he would have had Dunn leak this stuff a month before this last draft.

The more he sits out the worse it looks, and he is a guy that cares about legacy. I think he was anticipating all the fans to take his side, but most are taking management's side it seems. In the end you're probably right, he will play this season and be traded before the draft.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:29

Are you kidding me?

whaaaa, you complain about Rodgers more then any 3 people in this forum, and tagging me for telling you to get serious, when you refuse to accept stuff as obvious as a &%$@ house WR situation for the last 5 years with comments that he had a Nelson and Cobb who where playing well below there previous level even though Nelsons stats where still pretty good ( like Devonte last couple years, who else does Rodgers have to throw to) is so disengenious, I don't know why I even bother to converse about it, you deny reality at every turn, same with the defense, and our FO acted so complacent concerning this stuff, left McCarthy and Ted in there jobs 3 years to long, why???????? because Rodgers would bail them out year after year, now you can keep denying this stuff, I don't care, but thats the reality I and many Packer fans believe

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:46

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 08:54

I doubt it for the mandatory OTA's, maybe, but 93 K is chump change for Rodgers, and since he knows most of the installs he isn't losing much sitting out, I think he comes back for the start of TC, people are right to say he has no leverage, I expect he'll play out this season and ask for a trade prior to next years draft when there will be plenty of bidding for his services, if he really wanted out he would have had Dunn leak this stuff a month before this last draft.

The more he sits out the worse it looks, and he is a guy that cares about legacy. I think he was anticipating all the fans to take his side, but most are taking management's side it seems. In the end you're probably right, he will play this season and be traded before the draft.

Rodgers knows fans are fickled, do you really think Rodgers gives a hoot what fans think, sure some, but not as much as we think, the fans welcomed Favre back, and the fans will welcome Rodgers back too.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:53

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:29

Are you kidding me?

whaaaa, you complain about Rodgers more then any 3 people in this forum, and tagging me for telling you to get serious, when you refuse to accept stuff as obvious as a &%$@ house WR situation for the last 5 years with comments that he had a Nelson and Cobb who where playing well below there previous level even though Nelsons stats where still pretty good ( like Devonte last couple years, who else does Rodgers have to throw to) is so disengenious, I don't know why I even bother to converse about it, you deny reality at every turn, same with the defense, and our FO acted so complacent concerning this stuff, left McCarthy and Ted in there jobs 3 years to long, why???????? because Rodgers would bail them out year after year, now you can keep denying this stuff, I don't care, but thats the reality I and many Packer fans believe

I'm not denying I complain about Rodgers. But I am saying I also complain about other players after losses. And you know I do. They dropped the ball in 2020 just as they did in 2014. Yes. I will complain about players when they didn't reach their potential as a team. Those should have been SB years.

I don't get bothered about what did or didn't happen from 2016 to 2018 because those were crappy rosters anyway and the people who were in charge of those rosters are no longer Packers. They got what they deserved after failing at their job. That is water under the bridge.

But yes. The 2020 Packers are current and they failed. The only players I am not upset at about the NFC Title game are Alexander, Clark, MVS an Dillon. Everyone else I have been pretty hard on because that roster, like 2014, was good enough to win it all. I get frustrated that the 2014 and 2020 rosters are the best since 1996 and have 0 rings to show for it.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:53

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:29

Are you kidding me?

whaaaa, you complain about Rodgers more then any 3 people in this forum, and tagging me for telling you to get serious, when you refuse to accept stuff as obvious as a &%$@ house WR situation for the last 5 years with comments that he had a Nelson and Cobb who where playing well below there previous level even though Nelsons stats where still pretty good ( like Devonte last couple years, who else does Rodgers have to throw to) is so disengenious, I don't know why I even bother to converse about it, you deny reality at every turn, same with the defense, and our FO acted so complacent concerning this stuff, left McCarthy and Ted in there jobs 3 years to long, why???????? because Rodgers would bail them out year after year, now you can keep denying this stuff, I don't care, but thats the reality I and many Packer fans believe

I'm not denying I complain about Rodgers. But I am saying I also complain about other players after losses. And you know I do. They dropped the ball in 2020 just as they did in 2014. Yes. I will complain about players when they didn't reach their potential as a team. Those should have been SB years.

I don't get bothered about what did or didn't happen from 2016 to 2018 because those were crappy rosters anyway and the people who were in charge of those rosters are no longer Packers. They got what they deserved after failing at their job. That is water under the bridge.

But yes. The 2020 Packers are current and they failed. The only players I am not upset at about the NFC Title game are Alexander, Clark, MVS an Dillon. Everyone else I have been pretty hard on because that roster, like 2014, was good enough to win it all. I get frustrated that the 2014 and 2020 rosters are the best since 1996 and have 0 rings to show for it.

fair enough, I differ, I know players will have bad plays, even bad games, however coaches have to limit there exposure better when stuff like that is happening, Pettine had to help King more then just leaving him to fend for himself against a receiver faster then he is, and he left him like that on two plays that ended up being TD's, thats unforgivable

and Rodgers needed more help against the pass rush, obviously one way is blocking help, the other would have been a slot receiver that Guty chose not to include on the roster, Adams was our only player left at the end that is/was able to separate fast enough to beat the pass rush that was getting to Rodgers, you and others keep bringing up the drop by Adams, and Lazard not seeing the ball and all these other mis cues, that actually tend to happen in most games, my point has been we lacked another player with the skills like Adams that clears fast so Rodgers could get rid of the ball quicker.

real simple, this has never really been complicated, OK, yes the past is past, we don't need to ever discuss it again, but to sit here and defend not having that slot receiver is mind boggling, of course that would have been a avenue to success, more so imho then Dillon, even though using him more is what I would have done, minus Justin Jefferson of course.

I really have no problems with the WR situation. We already have a #1. They didn’t need to go high on the position with one already in place. They should have gone late to develop one a year ago but it is what it is.

The problem with TT and now Gutey is they just refuse to fix weaknesses. TT would go seasons without competent RBs and a literal decade without a decent LB duo. We were rotating out scrub late round and UDFA LBs for years. It hasn’t changed either. The DTs have been bad for seasons.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

however coaches have to limit there exposure better when stuff like that is happening, Pettine had to help King more then just leaving him to fend for himself against a receiver faster then he is, and he left him like that on two plays that ended up being TD's, thats unforgivable

Absolutely agree with this.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

and Rodgers needed more help against the pass rush, obviously one way is blocking help, the other would have been a slot receiver that Guty chose not to include on the roster, Adams was our only player left at the end that is/was able to separate fast enough to beat the pass rush that was getting to Rodgers, you and others keep bringing up the drop by Adams, and Lazard not seeing the ball and all these other mis cues, that actually tend to happen in most games, my point has been we lacked another player with the skills like Adams that clears fast so Rodgers could get rid of the ball quicker.

Whereas I think the best way to combat this would have been to hand Quadzilla the ball. Our offense was moving when we gave him the ball. It didn't move at all when we didn't give him the ball.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

real simple, this has never really been complicated, OK, yes the past is past, we don't need to ever discuss it again, but to sit here and defend not having that slot receiver is mind boggling, of course that would have been a avenue to success, more so imho then Dillon, even though using him more is what I would have done, minus Justin Jefferson of course.

I don't think anyone would argue about having a nice toy. But as you point out that players can't be perfect, neither are rosters. Injuries happen. Holdouts happen. An Amari Rodgers type player that we ultimately got this year just wasn't there last year. They were off the board before 25. Similarly, it sounds like the Packers wanted Rashod Bateman this year but the Ravens stole him because they knew how much GB loved him.

If we are going to give benefit of the doubt to players and coaches, we can certainly give benefit of the doubt to roster building as it an incredibly complex challenge to get just right. What is perceived as a need in September can suddenly be a strength in December and vice versa. There will always be weak spots. Look at the Bucs. They had to figure out how to play without Vita Vea and Antoine Winfield. Yet they still did it. The players and coaches found a way and that was primarily on the backs of amazing catches and 2 to 3 amazing throws by Brady on key 3rd downs.

At the end of the day, the Bucs star players just did better than our star players by one more play.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:30

I really have no problems with the WR situation. We already have a #1. They didn’t need to go high on the position with one already in place. They should have gone late to develop one a year ago but it is what it is.

The problem with TT and now Gutey is they just refuse to fix weaknesses. TT would go seasons without competent RBs and a literal decade without a decent LB duo. We were rotating out scrub late round and UDFA LBs for years. It hasn’t changed either. The DTs have been bad for seasons.

I hate how the Packers ignore the defensive line.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

however coaches have to limit there exposure better when stuff like that is happening, Pettine had to help King more then just leaving him to fend for himself against a receiver faster then he is, and he left him like that on two plays that ended up being TD's, thats unforgivable

Absolutely agree with this.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

and Rodgers needed more help against the pass rush, obviously one way is blocking help, the other would have been a slot receiver that Guty chose not to include on the roster, Adams was our only player left at the end that is/was able to separate fast enough to beat the pass rush that was getting to Rodgers, you and others keep bringing up the drop by Adams, and Lazard not seeing the ball and all these other mis cues, that actually tend to happen in most games, my point has been we lacked another player with the skills like Adams that clears fast so Rodgers could get rid of the ball quicker.

Whereas I think the best way to combat this would have been to hand Quadzilla the ball. Our offense was moving when we gave him the ball. It didn't move at all when we didn't give him the ball.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 10:56

real simple, this has never really been complicated, OK, yes the past is past, we don't need to ever discuss it again, but to sit here and defend not having that slot receiver is mind boggling, of course that would have been a avenue to success, more so imho then Dillon, even though using him more is what I would have done, minus Justin Jefferson of course.

I don't think anyone would argue about having a nice toy. But as you point out that players can't be perfect, neither are rosters. Injuries happen. Holdouts happen. An Amari Rodgers type player that we ultimately got this year just wasn't there last year. They were off the board before 25. Similarly, it sounds like the Packers wanted Rashod Bateman this year but the Ravens stole him because they knew how much GB loved him.

If we are going to give benefit of the doubt to players and coaches, we can certainly give benefit of the doubt to roster building as it an incredibly complex challenge to get just right. What is perceived as a need in September can suddenly be a strength in December and vice versa. There will always be weak spots. Look at the Bucs. They had to figure out how to play without Vita Vea and Antoine Winfield. Yet they still did it. The players and coaches found a way and that was primarily on the backs of amazing catches and 2 to 3 amazing throws by Brady on key 3rd downs.

At the end of the day, the Bucs star players just did better than our star players by one more play.

sorry, I'am just not as gullible as you and others here with the notion that all the slot players where gone, in fact the more it's brought up the more infuriated it makes me, Guty like Ted so often in the past simply wouldn't pony up the price it would have taken to move up for one, hell he could have waited even to later in round two and taken a lesser talented one then, instead he rely'd on the minimal athletic ability of Ervin, and even he showed how important that position is to Lafluers offense.

course we had the #1 offense in the league, which actually doesn't mean really anything when it comes to playing a defense capable of stopping a #1 offense, it comes down to matchups, and we have Adams, and the rest of our receivers didn't match up in the red zone on that drive better then Tampa pass rush, that Rodgers should have done this or that, or any of Adams ,Lazard, Tonyan etc. did anything diffeent is so secondary to me, that stuff happens every game, imo lacking the gadget player made it far more difficult then it needed to be.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:56

sorry, I'am just not as gullible as you and others here with the notion that all the slot players where gone, in fact the more it's brought up the more infuriated it makes me, Guty like Ted so often in the past simply wouldn't pony up the price it would have taken to move up for one, hell he could have waited even to later in round two and taken a lesser talented one then, instead he rely'd on the minimal athletic ability of Ervin, and even he showed how important that position is to Lafluers offense.

I personally really like AJ Dillon. I'm happy he is a Packer.

The fundamental difference between me and you is you are a needs chaser in the draft and I am not. The even larger difference is you are a needs to what fits your own mind.

As an example, I am very, very hesitant on drafting a slot WR in round 1. I just think the value of that is terrible. And the Packers are likely in that same mold. You need to be a potential #1 WR if you are a slot guy. Now Justin Jefferson was that guy which is why I was really hoping he'd fall in the mid to late 20's. But he went 22. Aiyuk was my 2nd guy but he went 25.

Sometimes you just get beat.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:02

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:56

sorry, I'am just not as gullible as you and others here with the notion that all the slot players where gone, in fact the more it's brought up the more infuriated it makes me, Guty like Ted so often in the past simply wouldn't pony up the price it would have taken to move up for one, hell he could have waited even to later in round two and taken a lesser talented one then, instead he rely'd on the minimal athletic ability of Ervin, and even he showed how important that position is to Lafluers offense.

I personally really like AJ Dillon. I'm happy he is a Packer.

The fundamental difference between me and you is you are a needs chaser in the draft and I am not. The even larger difference is you are a needs to what fits your own mind.

As an example, I am very, very hesitant on drafting a slot WR in round 1. I just think the value of that is terrible. And the Packers are likely in that same mold. You need to be a potential #1 WR if you are a slot guy. Now Justin Jefferson was that guy which is why I was really hoping he'd fall in the mid to late 20's. But he went 22. Aiyuk was my 2nd guy but he went 25.

Sometimes you just get beat.

Yep. Like I always laugh at the people who are like "I can't believe we didn't work that trade out" while they're not even capable of negotiating what movie to watch with their wife.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:02

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:56

sorry, I'am just not as gullible as you and others here with the notion that all the slot players where gone, in fact the more it's brought up the more infuriated it makes me, Guty like Ted so often in the past simply wouldn't pony up the price it would have taken to move up for one, hell he could have waited even to later in round two and taken a lesser talented one then, instead he rely'd on the minimal athletic ability of Ervin, and even he showed how important that position is to Lafluers offense.

I personally really like AJ Dillon. I'm happy he is a Packer.

The fundamental difference between me and you is you are a needs chaser in the draft and I am not. The even larger difference is you are a needs to what fits your own mind.

As an example, I am very, very hesitant on drafting a slot WR in round 1. I just think the value of that is terrible. And the Packers are likely in that same mold. You need to be a potential #1 WR if you are a slot guy. Now Justin Jefferson was that guy which is why I was really hoping he'd fall in the mid to late 20's. But he went 22. Aiyuk was my 2nd guy but he went 25.

Sometimes you just get beat.

Slot was and will be the #1 WR in these short coastal offenses just as they have been for NE, plus most guys that are special in the slot also do well outside, heck we had 4 diff. receivers play slot for us last year, in a lafluer style offense Slot receivers will thrive, look at that kid from NE, a 100 receptions every year, automatic and likely a 1000 yrds.

of course I'am a needs drafter, every GM is unless there team is so solid they can afford to go BPA, which is rare, Guty did it with Gary and here it is 3 years later and he's still not considered the starter, there is so much player turnover now that a GM has to plug holes, this isn't the 80's or pre UFA times any more.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:14

Slot was and will be the #1 WR in these short coastal offenses just as they have been for NE, plus most guys that are special in the slot also do well outside, heck we had 4 diff. receivers play slot for us last year, in a lafluer style offense Slot receivers will thrive, look at that kid from NE, a 100 receptions every year, automatic and likely a 1000 yrds.

So, based on your own definition, why do you ignore what Davante Adams did from the slot last year? There was a thread, recently, that showed alignments and showed how much Adams played there. He thrived. So why do we "need" this prototypical slot receiver when we did have the production from that position already... and then some. I like Amari Rodgers. Love that we have him. I think our offense can do a lot with a guy like that. But I don't think he's going to magically fix something because it wasn't broken to begin with. And so help me God, if you say Adams doesn't have enough short-area quickness...

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:14

Slot was and will be the #1 WR in these short coastal offenses just as they have been for NE, plus most guys that are special in the slot also do well outside, heck we had 4 diff. receivers play slot for us last year, in a lafluer style offense Slot receivers will thrive, look at that kid from NE, a 100 receptions every year, automatic and likely a 1000 yrds.

So, based on your own definition, why do you ignore what Davante Adams did from the slot last year? There was a thread, recently, that showed alignments and showed how much Adams played there. He thrived. So why do we "need" this prototypical slot receiver when we did have the production from that position already... and then some. I like Amari Rodgers. Love that we have him. I think our offense can do a lot with a guy like that. But I don't think he's going to magically fix something because it wasn't broken to begin with. And so help me God, if you say Adams doesn't have enough short-area quickness...

How to determine if the WR will be a slot.

Step Number 1. Is he short?
Answer: Yes! He will be a great slot

Step Number 2. Is he not short?
Answer: He is not a slot.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 09:31

I'm okay with that. Just win baby.

I heard if you say that three times, the ghost of Al Davis will appear...

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:14

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:02

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 11:56

sorry, I'am just not as gullible as you and others here with the notion that all the slot players where gone, in fact the more it's brought up the more infuriated it makes me, Guty like Ted so often in the past simply wouldn't pony up the price it would have taken to move up for one, hell he could have waited even to later in round two and taken a lesser talented one then, instead he rely'd on the minimal athletic ability of Ervin, and even he showed how important that position is to Lafluers offense.

I personally really like AJ Dillon. I'm happy he is a Packer.

The fundamental difference between me and you is you are a needs chaser in the draft and I am not. The even larger difference is you are a needs to what fits your own mind.

As an example, I am very, very hesitant on drafting a slot WR in round 1. I just think the value of that is terrible. And the Packers are likely in that same mold. You need to be a potential #1 WR if you are a slot guy. Now Justin Jefferson was that guy which is why I was really hoping he'd fall in the mid to late 20's. But he went 22. Aiyuk was my 2nd guy but he went 25.

Sometimes you just get beat.

Slot was and will be the #1 WR in these short coastal offenses just as they have been for NE, plus most guys that are special in the slot also do well outside, heck we had 4 diff. receivers play slot for us last year, in a lafluer style offense Slot receivers will thrive, look at that kid from NE, a 100 receptions every year, automatic and likely a 1000 yrds.

of course I'am a needs drafter, every GM is unless there team is so solid they can afford to go BPA, which is rare, Guty did it with Gary and here it is 3 years later and he's still not considered the starter, there is so much player turnover now that a GM has to plug holes, this isn't the 80's or pre UFA times any more.

Oh that guy in NE that was a 7th round draft pick?

I think a better way of making Yoop's point is less about it being a slot guy, and more about it being a guy who can create instant separation on his own (without scheming). It's true that Adams can do that. It's also true that outside of Adams, our front office packed the team full of guys who were smoother than sudden, bigger than fast, and more physical than quick. Those guys also have a place in this league, but players who can create their own separation through shifty moves or precise, sudden cuts, would really help the short passing game and the red zone.

Now, the fact that without more of those guys, we still had the literal best red zone offense in the history of the NFL last year. That says, "ok so maybe we didn't need more of those guys afterall." And that's the take I, and most people, have about our 2020 offense. But it's also true that having another guy who has the quickness and suddenness to create his own separation is obviously good to have, even if last year we showed that we didn't need one; in Yoop's opinion, the red zone against the Bucs shows that hey, we maybe didn't need one for the regular season, but we sure needed one then.

I still believe there are alternatives, like running Dillon more as go pack go said; or using the big targets rather than the quick targets in the redzone. Tonyan and MVS and EQ and Lazard are all at least 6'4". You can go skyball in the redzone with those weapons. But Adams is great, Rodgers trusts Adams, Adams can create separation, and in the crucial moments, Rodgers threw mostly to Adams, especially after the miscue with Lazard earlier.

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2021 12:14

Slot was and will be the #1 WR in these short coastal offenses just as they have been for NE, plus most guys that are special in the slot also do well outside, heck we had 4 diff. receivers play slot for us last year, in a lafluer style offense Slot receivers will thrive, look at that kid from NE, a 100 receptions every year, automatic and likely a 1000 yrds.

So, based on your own definition, why do you ignore what Davante Adams did from the slot last year? There was a thread, recently, that showed alignments and showed how much Adams played there. He thrived. So why do we "need" this prototypical slot receiver when we did have the production from that position already... and then some. I like Amari Rodgers. Love that we have him. I think our offense can do a lot with a guy like that. But I don't think he's going to magically fix something because it wasn't broken to begin with. And so help me God, if you say Adams doesn't have enough short-area quickness...

because two slot stallions is better then one, ya know I repeat myself because you and others over look previous comments I make, for instance your opinion has been that in the 3 seconds it took for Adams to be drapped and double covered, Tonyan to look for a place to get open along with MVS, Lazard and whomever else was in the EZ a slot guy with quicker separation ability probably could have gotten open sooner.

and of course it was broken, our receivers struggled to get open faster then the pass rush was getting to Rodgers the whole game, see here I go repeating myself again.

thanks for helping make my point Yoho.

this game is always about matchups, and covering all the bases, when it comes to who helps us more, in this offense I'll take the slot receiver over almost any other position, and that includes Dillon, ya can always use short passes to move the chains.