Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

30 Sep 2024 22:08

Buffalo actually has a guy right now who is a playmaker that could keep Nixon off the field. I think he’d be a perfect fit. Name is rasul Douglas. We should trade for him,

Except the Bills play Douglas outside where he belongs.

There's a whole lotta season left, but so far the D has me half infuriated and half excited.

Too many supposed core players have been disappointments. Gary has been lame, Preston meh, Clark hasn't beasted, Quay has looked lost (tho seemed to have a decent game vs the Vikes), Nixon has been mistake-prone and victimized in coverage... Jaire has two INTs, but he's paid like top 5 in league corner, and overall he hasn't matched that. I was hoping Stokes to take a step forward, but it just hasn't clicked. Overall, we don't have enough of our top investments playing up to their lofty contracts or draft status. The front four pass rush is supposed to be a good and deep group, yet they just aren't winning enough reps, forcing Hafley to blitz.

Then again we've gotten takeaways galore. X has been fantastic, and it's hard not to be stoked about the rookie trio of Cooper, Bullard and Williams. Safeties are suddenly a strength. Wyatt had a sweet start, Enagbare has upped his level, Van Ness ain't gonna be flashy but will win on effort and power (hoping he develops like Aaron Kampman in olden days), Brooks is fine in rotation and playing way above his draft position, Valentine has been quite the find. So it's not like there aren't bright spots, but since it's mostly (so far) role players, the impact isn't consistent.

It's still early days in a new system and under a new coordinator, so I do hold out hope the D starts gelling and finding more of what works as the season goes on. I sure don't feel the same apathy as with Barry, but it doesn't feel like we've been getting what this talent should be capable of. Hafley has his work cut out for him.

APB wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2024 16:00

texas wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2024 15:46

Through 4 games, Hafley has been worse than Barry, which is sort of inexplicable. Obviously very early, a lot of time to get turned around. But I'd rather be clearly better after 4 games than clearly worse.

By what measure?

Eye test. Also the front 7 are terrible.

People who think we have done well need to realize just how bad Will Levis and Anthony Richardson have been this year.

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

30 Sep 2024 08:31

texas wrote: ↑

29 Sep 2024 15:46

Through 4 games, Hafley has been worse than Barry, which is sort of inexplicable. Obviously very early, a lot of time to get turned around. But I'd rather be clearly better after 4 games than clearly worse.

Packers currently ranked 20th in the NFL giving up 22.3 points per game.

Yeah so bottom half. Now account for playing 2 of the worst QBs in the league so far.

I don’t think Hafley is worse than Barry. I just think Hafley has a lot of his front four that don’t match his scheme. Most teams running this style of defense, they’re undersized and fast on the line and want to just shoot in and cause havocs. We have Wyatt who can do that but that’s about it.

go pak go wrote: ↑

30 Sep 2024 15:51

Yoop wrote: ↑

30 Sep 2024 15:27

go pak go wrote: ↑

30 Sep 2024 15:21

What does that even mean?

lighter of course, whatever, the issue is there not shedding blocks, so it's not just a size issue.


t's a name the Giants used under Steve Spagnoulo for when they would put four defensive ends on the field instead of the usual 2 DEs 2 DTs to get a better pass rush.Nov 9, 2018


In football, a NASCAR defensive front is a defensive line that consists of speed rushers, such as defensive ends and linebackers. Steve Spagnuolo often used this front in pass situations with players like Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, and Osi Umenyiora.

It's not a size issue at all.

We have the size. We have the speed. Our players just need to win their matchups. They all have the pedigree and history that supports they can do it. They just haven't done it.

I wont pay for PFF and the other grading sites, but espn has PRWR, and only Clark made the top 20 at slot 18 last year of all our DL, none so far this year, and if I checked 2022 I probably find the same thing or no one in top 20, so when you claim they have the pedigree I question that, because I rarely see it, if you can't shed then you wont make a play, that is what I see mostly


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/383 ... yers-teams

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 02:04

I don’t think Hafley is worse than Barry. I just think Hafley has a lot of his front four that don’t match his scheme. Most teams running this style of defense, they’re undersized and fast on the line and want to just shoot in and cause havocs. We have Wyatt who can do that but that’s about it.

bad hand job, unless our DL get better at slapping away the latch from the OL they wont be free to do anything, Clark has been our only consistent DT able to do that the last few seasons, with Gary and the rest, not so much, and Clark has struggled this season, while we finally are seeing Wyatt do better

I see our DL in the grasp of OL every play, the best DL shed those attempts.

the Vikes have quality OL and there good at latching on and anchoring, and it showed Sunday.

I think Gary still definitely needs to be better but he is the 5th most chipped pass rusher in the league at 20%. Now that other 80% he has to make something happen but still he taking on the most double teams during his pass rush attempts by far on the team.

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 06:14

bad hand job

So, from what I'm reading, the consensus seems to be several of the highly-compensated veterans and high draft picks are under-performing and or may not even be good fits for the latest "new" defensive scheme. Also, we are very young again.

So pretty much same old, same old and let's hope our offense outscores the opposition when we face a team with a competent offensive squad.

Acrobat wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 08:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 06:14

bad hand job

Still counts

I don't attribute the players being a bad fit. No real reason our edge guys can't play with their hand in the dirt. Gary and LVN did it in college. Preston did it in Washington. Kinglsey was a DE in college.

Our guys have the appropriate size for a 4-3.

I don't see any real justifiable excuse for scheme miss fit outside of Clark needing to adjust to something new since he did it the old way for song long. I just see players who aren't performing and should be performing.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 02:04

I don’t think Hafley is worse than Barry. I just think Hafley has a lot of his front four that don’t match his scheme. Most teams running this style of defense, they’re undersized and fast on the line and want to just shoot in and cause havocs. We have Wyatt who can do that but that’s about it.

I wonder if there is anything we could do there at the trade deadline.

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 09:10

So, from what I'm reading, the consensus seems to be several of the highly-compensated veterans and high draft picks are under-performing and or may not even be good fits for the latest "new" defensive scheme. Also, we are very young again.

So pretty much same old, same old and let's hope our offense outscores the opposition when we face a team with a competent offensive squad.

Clark, Gary, and Alexander are under performing and need to step up.

There isn't a player on the defense that isn't a good fit for the scheme. That assumption doesn't hold water.

We are 4 games into a new scheme. Even Hafley said they aren't even halfway into installing the entire defense. It takes time.

There have been some good things and bad things. All are correctable.

Remember this was the 2009 Packers: They ended the regular season holding 6 of their final 8 regular season opponents to 14 or less points.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 09:33

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 09:10

So, from what I'm reading, the consensus seems to be several of the highly-compensated veterans and high draft picks are under-performing and or may not even be good fits for the latest "new" defensive scheme. Also, we are very young again.

So pretty much same old, same old and let's hope our offense outscores the opposition when we face a team with a competent offensive squad.

Clark, Gary, and Alexander are under performing and need to step up.

There isn't a player on the defense that isn't a good fit for the scheme. That assumption doesn't hold water.

We are 4 games into a new scheme. Even Hafley said they aren't even halfway into installing the entire defense. It takes time.

There have been some good things and bad things. All are correctable.

Remember this was the 2009 Packers:
image.png
They ended the regular season holding 6 of their final 8 regular season opponents to 14 or less points.

And that's the thing.

We all wanted to see immediate results and, I would argue, we have. Look at the turnovers being generated. Look at the aggressiveness. Sure, guys aren't playing up to perceived status and points are being scored but I think some of that can be attributed to growing pains within the new system. It's gonna take a little time and I think it's premature to start casting judgment upon Hafley and his scheme.

I think it was a critical mistake to not allow Matt LaFleur to choose his own DC in 2019. I know the Packers made it appear that he chose Pettine but I think we all understand that there was some organizational pressure to retain him. I would ride and die with Hafley now until LaFleur, himself, is shown the door.

im not too worried about the defense. The turnovers are awesome. Vikings were red hot and we didnt have two corners. It happens.

If offense stays on the field longer, that will help the D too.

these days, first 4 games are like the preseason. You just dont want to enter week 5 in a huge hole. At 2-2 we are fine.

That said, Gary and Clark need to not be bums or there will be problems. Wyatt is playing alot better than Gary.

NCF wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 09:25

I wonder if there is anything we could do there at the trade deadline.

Would be tough when it comes to DEs.

@lupedafiasco has a point that the we kinda have a bunch of power DEs, and could benefit from another speed rusher. Enagbare and Mosby are the only ones we have of that ilk. Enagbare is thriving, Mosby probably isn't starting material. Gary, Preston, Van Ness and even Cox are all power guys.

Preston could conceivably be traded, but the 19.4M dead cap charge would be nasty. It would take some extraordinary circumstances for another team to give up a quality speed rusher for a 31-year-old power DE and change.

Adding another rusher without giving up any of them is conceivable, but it's hard for me to see Gutey spending a lot of draft capital or shipping away anyone from another position group for anyone of impact at an already deep and cap-expensive position group.

I think we'll have to roll with what we have this season, and have speed come from blitzes by the likes of Q, Cooper and Nixon.

Next off-season is decision time on at least Preston, and I could easily see us go for more speed at DE at that point.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 10:19

im not too worried about the defense. The turnovers are awesome. Vikings were red hot and we didnt have two corners. It happens.

If offense stays on the field longer, that will help the D too.

these days, first 4 games are like the preseason. You just dont want to enter week 5 in a huge hole. At 2-2 we are fine.

That said, Gary and Clark need to not be bums or there will be problems. Wyatt is playing alot better than Gary.

spot on, add Alex and Valentine and this is a different game, and a obvious win now with hind sight,

even with the DL playing paddy cake all game, the increased coverage ability would have kept the score more manageable in the first half, and Lafleur would have schemed more run plays and perimeter football, the Vikes made our offense 1 dimensional, and Love had to much rust to keep up early part of game

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

01 Oct 2024 07:38

I think Gary still definitely needs to be better but he is the 5th most chipped pass rusher in the league at 20%. Now that other 80% he has to make something happen but still he taking on the most double teams during his pass rush attempts by far on the team.

offenses are using a 3 on two approach, either 2 OL and a TE or the RB, on Clark and Gary, which ever is beating there block will deal with that 3rd man, least thats what I've seen, and I believe your explaining now

I think player fit is OK, it's technique imo that our players are struggling with, when ya see a DL stood up, imo it's a leverage issue, in order to have better leverage a key component is to shed the OL mans hands.