Packers Huddle

Ya know what's cool?

Jonathan Garvin is a full year younger than Josh Meyers.

We got that kid YOUNG and are allowing him to develop his natural skillset into a more refined player before many guys even enter the league. His measurables are not far off from Zadarius, who took plenty of time to develop. I'm intrigued to see where his ceiling eventually falls.

I am interested to see what "pressures" are given to Gary because I think there is some pretty liberal allocation of pressures.

PFR has 1 hurry, 7 knockdowns and 1.5 sacks for 10 total pressures in 2021.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:15

I am interested to see what "pressures" are given to Gary because I think there is some pretty liberal allocation of pressures.

PFR has 1 hurry, 7 knockdowns and 1.5 sacks for 10 total pressures in 2021.

PFF is always very liberal with pressures. PFR is more judicious. For example, Aaron Donald has 16 pressures on the season according to PFR.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:04

I am genuinely interested what this "Gary love affair" looks like. Does saying 23 pressures through 6 games is something to be pumped about fall under "Gary love affair?"

who knows, actually who gives a &%$@, what is insane is any time someone says Gary needs to play better, there are people like you that will go to extremes to defend him or like LaBreve with his GangGary mantra.

If I use slot 12 on a edge rusher I have a right to expect 50 plus pressures and about 8 to 12 sacks a season, and any one that thinks thats to much to ask is just defending the pick.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:15

I am interested to see what "pressures" are given to Gary because I think there is some pretty liberal allocation of pressures.

PFR has 1 hurry, 7 knockdowns and 1.5 sacks for 10 total pressures in 2021.

probably the diff. between PFF and PFR

23 used PFR to show that Donald had 70 total pressures in 2018, PFF has him at 112 or so that year (havn't looked recently, memory could be off a couple, point is thats 40 more pressures given by the PFF crew.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:24

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:04

I am genuinely interested what this "Gary love affair" looks like. Does saying 23 pressures through 6 games is something to be pumped about fall under "Gary love affair?"

who knows, actually who gives a &%$@, what is insane is any time someone says Gary needs to play better, there are people like you that will go to extremes to defend him or like LaBreve with his GangGary mantra.

What extremes have I gone to defend him?

FYI, 49 players since 1990 have been drafted 12 or higher and gotten 8+ sacks in 2 or more seasons. Another 30 did it 1 season only.

50 pressures and 8+ sacks is not too much to ask, but Gary's career isn't over. He is 38 games in.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:17

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:15

I am interested to see what "pressures" are given to Gary because I think there is some pretty liberal allocation of pressures.

PFR has 1 hurry, 7 knockdowns and 1.5 sacks for 10 total pressures in 2021.

PFF is always very liberal with pressures. PFR is more judicious. For example, Aaron Donald has 16 pressures on the season according to PFR.

then why do you bring PFF grades for Gary yet show PFR for Donald?

you pull this &%$@ all the time and all it does is confuse everyone!


so lets use PFR then, in what freaking universe is 30 plus total pressures a season considered even good for a edge rusher, you have him ranked 9th among all edge rushers this season with 23 rushes with PFF, yet you expect me to believe 10 total pressures has him ranked 9th with PFR? this doesn't even make sense.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:32

FYI, 49 players since 1990 have been drafted 12 or higher and gotten 8+ sacks in 2 or more seasons. Another 30 did it 1 season only.

50 pressures and 8+ sacks is not too much to ask, but Gary's career isn't over. He is 38 games in.

FYI if your going to bring stat lines then bring a link

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:24

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:04

I am genuinely interested what this "Gary love affair" looks like. Does saying 23 pressures through 6 games is something to be pumped about fall under "Gary love affair?"

who knows, actually who gives a &%$@, what is insane is any time someone says Gary needs to play better, there are people like you that will go to extremes to defend him or like LaBreve with his GangGary mantra.

What extremes have I gone to defend him?

same extremes that you defend Lazard with.

Like I said. I am pretty middle on Gary right now. You can see he is likely our most impactful edge rusher. He definitely has great speed, great effort and plays the run great.

But I also know that if someone told me in 2019 that Gary wouldn't even have 10 career sacks by week 6 of his 3rd season (and wasn't really ever injured),.... I wouldn't believe them.

I mean Kyler Fackrell basically has the same production in that same time frame (after his freakish breakout season)

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:36

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:17

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:15

I am interested to see what "pressures" are given to Gary because I think there is some pretty liberal allocation of pressures.

PFR has 1 hurry, 7 knockdowns and 1.5 sacks for 10 total pressures in 2021.

PFF is always very liberal with pressures. PFR is more judicious. For example, Aaron Donald has 16 pressures on the season according to PFR.

then why do you bring PFF grades for Gary yet show PFR for Donald?

you pull this &%$@ all the time and all it does is confuse everyone!


so lets use PFR then, in what freaking universe is 30 plus total pressures a season considered even good for a edge rusher, you have him ranked 9th among all edge rushers this season with 23 rushes with PFF, yet you expect me to believe 10 total pressures has him ranked 9th with PFR? this doesn't even make sense.

I didn't bring PFF grade for Gary only. I brought PFR pressure stats for both.

No one said PFRs 10 pressures for Gary has him ranked 9th. I have not looked up where his rank is on PFR.

I am sorry it doesn't make sense to you.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:42

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:24

who knows, actually who gives a &%$@, what is insane is any time someone says Gary needs to play better, there are people like you that will go to extremes to defend him or like LaBreve with his GangGary mantra.

What extremes have I gone to defend him?

same extremes that you defend Lazard with.

Wow, that is a mighty big deflection. So, what exactly are the extremes taken to defend Gary?

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:38

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:32

FYI, 49 players since 1990 have been drafted 12 or higher and gotten 8+ sacks in 2 or more seasons. Another 30 did it 1 season only.

50 pressures and 8+ sacks is not too much to ask, but Gary's career isn't over. He is 38 games in.

FYI if your going to bring stat lines then bring a link

No

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:47

Like I said. I am pretty middle on Gary right now. You can see he is likely our most impactful edge rusher. He definitely has great speed, great effort and plays the run great.

But I also know that if someone told me in 2019 that Gary wouldn't even have 10 career sacks by week 6 of his 3rd season (and wasn't really ever injured),.... I wouldn't believe them.

I mean Kyler Fackrell basically has the same production in that same time frame (after his freakish breakout season)

and thats my point as well, at this stage Gary should be farther along with hand technique, should be better at shedding and closing, it's great that he protects the edge, but I'am not using slot 12 on a guy for edge containment or making tackles, like you just said a guy like Fackrell can do that.

as we know, typically the higher the draft pick, the more ready to play, so obviously ya expect a mid to late round pick will need to learn a lot more then a guy ya use slot 12 on, yet Garvin shows just as good of hand tech as Gary does, now that should have all the Gary fans humbled, but no.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:42

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:24

who knows, actually who gives a &%$@, what is insane is any time someone says Gary needs to play better, there are people like you that will go to extremes to defend him or like LaBreve with his GangGary mantra.

What extremes have I gone to defend him?

same extremes that you defend Lazard with.

Lazard is awesome. This week didn't change my mind.

paco wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:01

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:42

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:29

What extremes have I gone to defend him?

same extremes that you defend Lazard with.

Lazard is awesome. This week didn't change my mind.

Lazard is a great guy to have on the roster. Lazard does a lot of dirty work.
That does not mean you should want Lazard as your WR2 or that Lazard can separate without a lot of help.

But yes, Lazard is a GREAT Packer and a guy you want to go to battle with.

And I do think there is something to be said about the ability to finish the play.

Absolutely I am happy about pressures. We have talked on this board ad-nauseum about the importance of impacting the play with pressures. But sometimes you gotta finish the play and our defense has issues with that.

Our two largest issues is getting off the field on 3rd down and in the Redzone. Both of these places are spots where that "big sack" can come into play and we just don't see it as much with our defense. I mean every time our offense fails, it is often because the opposing pass rush knows it's a pass and collapses on Rodgers immediately. We need our guys to do that more.

Another thing with not finishing the play is then allowing the QB to break contain and get a big run. The Packers have allowed 651 rushing yards on the season.

Winston - 37 yards
Goff - 46 yards
Burrow - 11 yards
Fields - 43 yards
Total of 137 yards

So far this season on the big 3rd down, it seems more often than not the guy who is stepping up on 3rd down to impact the play is Kenny Clark. We need our edge guys to be more of that. And they should be able to be more of that.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:59

as we know, typically the higher the draft pick, the more ready to play, so obviously ya expect a mid to late round pick will need to learn a lot more then a guy ya use slot 12 on, yet Garvin shows just as good of hand tech as Gary does, now that should have all the Gary fans humbled, but no.

Let's cool it on the Garvin stuff. When you actually look at the Garvin plays, they are not in the same zip code as the Gary plays. Often Garvin is either helped because the QB is pushed into Garvin (by Gary) or it's a coverage clean up play.

Garvin has been admirable to watch, but he is absolutely a step down from Rashan Gary.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:48

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:36

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:17

PFF is always very liberal with pressures. PFR is more judicious. For example, Aaron Donald has 16 pressures on the season according to PFR.

then why do you bring PFF grades for Gary yet show PFR for Donald?

you pull this &%$@ all the time and all it does is confuse everyone!


so lets use PFR then, in what freaking universe is 30 plus total pressures a season considered even good for a edge rusher, you have him ranked 9th among all edge rushers this season with 23 rushes with PFF, yet you expect me to believe 10 total pressures has him ranked 9th with PFR? this doesn't even make sense.

I didn't bring PFF grade for Gary only. I brought PFR pressure stats for both.

No one said PFRs 10 pressures for Gary has him ranked 9th. I have not looked up where his rank is on PFR.

I am sorry it doesn't make sense to you.

well how can Gary have 23 pressures and a 9th over all ranking (which seems about right to me), yet GPG just showed that he had just over 10 pressures total from the same sight (PFR)

I looked for PFR grades today, but they don't come out till tomorrow, and often I've seen grades change with PFF from these instant grades we see this morning to when there consensus grades come out mid week.