Packers Huddle

Iowa

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 18:35

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 15:36

Love will get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love should get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love is possibly underperforming in some ways, or at least inconsistent (accuracy?). But he is steadily making more plays, even against good defenses.

We need to pay him. He won't get top tier pay. But he should get a nice check.

Love us a bottom 5 preferred started (in, not starting due to injury). He is the type of player you look to replace. Can he get better, say to be an average starter? Maybe, but he isn't there now.

You aren't even seeing what you see right in front of you. Love has tools that exceed that of the average QB. It isn't a given that he will be elite. But he has a LOT of upside. The ability is there. The only question is whether he will continually progress or not. It isn't a given. But he has VERY good tools. Any attempt at finding a new starting QB would result in long-term decrease. We need to give Love his chance. He's earned it.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 19:42

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 18:35

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 15:36

Love will get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love should get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love is possibly underperforming in some ways, or at least inconsistent (accuracy?). But he is steadily making more plays, even against good defenses.

We need to pay him. He won't get top tier pay. But he should get a nice check.

Love us a bottom 5 preferred started (in, not starting due to injury). He is the type of player you look to replace. Can he get better, say to be an average starter? Maybe, but he isn't there now.

You aren't even seeing what you see right in front of you. Love has tools that exceed that of the average QB. It isn't a given that he will be elite. But he has a LOT of upside. The ability is there. The only question is whether he will continually progress or not. It isn't a given. But he has VERY good tools. Any attempt at finding a new starting QB would result in long-term decrease. We need to give Love his chance. He's earned it.

To me it sounds like they will use the rest of the season to evaluate him (which is what the FO should do) and hopefully make the correct decision then. It would be irresponsible for the team to throw money at him right now. He does have tools but does he ultimately have what it takes to be better than average? Hopefully by the end of the year they will have a clearer picture. I wish he would start kicking ass. He is very easy to root for. He just seems like a good guy too and maybe a good leader.

QB has never been about the tools. It helps to have a strong arm and arm angles or having some type of running ability.

If you don’t have the ability to extend plays, break down a defense, and or dissect defenses you will be a bum.

Right not Love has tools but lacks everything from a mental capacity. It could be he’s still young but the things IMO he should already have developed as a 4th year QB, regardless of being a backup, are not where they need to be. Mechanics of his are borderline garbage. Accuracy is poor. He looked early in the season he knew where the play needed to go. IMO when it matter lately he looks clueless or late.

I have no problems admitting I can't tell you what I'm seeing right in front of me. Love still looks to me, like what I thought he was when he entered the league. Good arm, can move, works hard etc.

But I also still see slow decision making, errant throws, inconsistent accuracy etc.

Then I think, he's young, some of this you just can't get thru except by going thru it by playing. and then I think, but he's not a 1st or 2nd year QB. He's had some time to work on these things I see, but still understand there is no substitute for live play.

Then I have to consider all the other youth, how much is that contributing to his slower process on the field? indecisive throws? presnap reads, seemingly errant throws? I think he throws much better when he's decisive, drop back, throw and mean it rather this joe cool drop back and flip/float it somewhere. But what's he going to look like when he does that? Can he really read the defense to know where to just throw it? or will they be baiting him and stepping in front of 20 passes a year for INT's because he can't see what's in front of him?

I don't know, I can't tell at this point and nobody pays me enough to dissect it all either

No way i'm comfortable paying him any more than he's slated to make at this point and give him another year to try and earn more.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 19:42

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 18:35

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 15:36

Love will get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love should get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love is possibly underperforming in some ways, or at least inconsistent (accuracy?). But he is steadily making more plays, even against good defenses.

We need to pay him. He won't get top tier pay. But he should get a nice check.

Love us a bottom 5 preferred started (in, not starting due to injury). He is the type of player you look to replace. Can he get better, say to be an average starter? Maybe, but he isn't there now.

You aren't even seeing what you see right in front of you. Love has tools that exceed that of the average QB. It isn't a given that he will be elite. But he has a LOT of upside. The ability is there. The only question is whether he will continually progress or not. It isn't a given. But he has VERY good tools. Any attempt at finding a new starting QB would result in long-term decrease. We need to give Love his chance. He's earned it.

Scott most QB that get drafted have the physical tools to play in the NFL, it's the mental part that is in question, it's why no one really knows how well they'll do till they prove it during games, it's unfortunate that the circumstances have not been as good as they could have been for Love, a little more experienced receivers, better run game, more consistent blocking, but he's starting to improve, baby steps

musclestang wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 05:26

Then I have to consider all the other youth, how much is that contributing to his slower process on the field? indecisive throws? presnap reads, seemingly errant throws?

This.

Love hasn't been perfect by any stretch but I believe a culmination of errors from this young offensive squad had made it appear he's worse than he is. We see errors virtually every week from receivers who haven't figured out how to run a proper route or catch a ball when it's delivered as a catchable ball. It all seemingly gets laid at the feet of Love and his lack of accuracy/leadership/decision making/etc.

How many incompletions are due to WRs not being where they're supposed to be on a pass that is thrown before they come out of their break and are subsequently cast as accuracy issues with Love? Love is many times throwing to a spot, be it a yardage point or 1st down marker. We can't know for certain but it is evident it's happening. The lazy response is to blame it all on Love, of course.

and just as lazy to think that wasn't the case with Rodgers last season, and to make matters worse both QB's had to deal with inconsistent blocking, for anyone to think a QB doesn't think about pass rush after getting rocked a few times early season, and periodically as the season plays out is dreaming, of course it's on there mind, and that my friends is called two braining, thinking about pass rush robs concentration from reading progressions, it makes a QB miss the first window on route progressions (which we see pointed out in QB school each week)

yes we know Love has to be able to deal with that stuff, and he does seem to be improving, but imo pressure is the number one reason QB's fail at this level, coupled of course with inexperienced receivers.

It's why I agree with some others here, if Love fails, it's on Gutekunst shoulders.

APB wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 07:43

musclestang wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 05:26

Then I have to consider all the other youth, how much is that contributing to his slower process on the field? indecisive throws? presnap reads, seemingly errant throws?

This.

Love hasn't been perfect by any stretch but I believe a culmination of errors from this young offensive squad had made it appear he's worse than he is. We see errors virtually every week from receivers who haven't figured out how to run a proper route or catch a ball when it's delivered as a catchable ball. It all seemingly gets laid at the feet of Love and his lack of accuracy/leadership/decision making/etc.

How many incompletions are due to WRs not being where they're supposed to be on a pass that is thrown before they come out of their break and are subsequently cast as accuracy issues with Love? Love is many times throwing to a spot, be it a yardage point or 1st down marker. We can't know for certain but it is evident it's happening. The lazy response is to blame it all on Love, of course.

So here's a perfect example of all this:


It's hard to see, but can be found in the QB School video. Watch Musgrave run the double move and look back on the out before running the up. He gets the underneath defender to bite, but there is a safety over the top. Watson, on the other hand, doesn't look back on the double move and a savvy DB like Peterson isn't fooled and makes a good play to pop the ball up. Added to that Love is a touch short on the pass giving Peterson space to make that play. It's just a culmination of a lot of things right now. One thing that seems to be true most of the time is the passes are just a tick off in the accuracy department. It's improving and when this all gels and comes together that stuff may disappear with more confidence. However, to say he is consistently late, or playing without anticipation, or making the wrong reads is just not true. Does it happen at times, sure, but it isn't a consistent thing with Love.

Quit blaming Jordan Love for everything! There are Myopic Voids everywhere for cryin' out loud.

Give the offense some time. Right now we've got a great group of offensive weapons that will all mature together as the seasons (plural you knuckleheads) wear on. Specific hot spots are Love, Reed, Wicks, Doubs and Musgrave. But that's only 5 out of 6 offensive players. Packers players desperately require Gutey to bring in more talent.........or resign.

Defense is another story. Some of the new big boys up front seem to have promise. Preston Smith is awesome but he won't be here much longer. Rashan Gary is only one guy. Give the defense a break........simply look at the points allowed column and then move your focus back over to the maturing offense.

I don't even want to talk about the coordinators or LaCoach right now. They all are disgustingly underachieving big time. Quit blaming Love for the inept coaching staff.

GO PACK GO !!

Papa John wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 15:40

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 08:27

This last presser beginning of the end for LaFleur imo.

IDK what LaFleur is thinking, interacting with the media that way. He is an absolutely NO position to be acting condescending. It's PR 101. The quicker a vulnerable coach turns the media against him, the sooner he will be shown the door. Dead man walking.

I didn't see this presser but if he behaved his way my esteem for him took another hit.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 19:42

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 18:35

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 15:36

Love will get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love should get a nice contract from the Packers.
Love is possibly underperforming in some ways, or at least inconsistent (accuracy?). But he is steadily making more plays, even against good defenses.

We need to pay him. He won't get top tier pay. But he should get a nice check.

Love us a bottom 5 preferred started (in, not starting due to injury). He is the type of player you look to replace. Can he get better, say to be an average starter? Maybe, but he isn't there now.

You aren't even seeing what you see right in front of you. Love has tools that exceed that of the average QB. It isn't a given that he will be elite. But he has a LOT of upside. The ability is there. The only question is whether he will continually progress or not. It isn't a given. But he has VERY good tools. Any attempt at finding a new starting QB would result in long-term decrease. We need to give Love his chance. He's earned it.

Yes, we don't need him to be elite. Elite QBs are as rare as hen's teeth. If he can show he is above average we can win with that. This is what this season is for. We'll have a better idea by the end of December.

APB wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 07:43

musclestang wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 05:26

Then I have to consider all the other youth, how much is that contributing to his slower process on the field? indecisive throws? presnap reads, seemingly errant throws?

This.

Love hasn't been perfect by any stretch but I believe a culmination of errors from this young offensive squad had made it appear he's worse than he is. We see errors virtually every week from receivers who haven't figured out how to run a proper route or catch a ball when it's delivered as a catchable ball. It all seemingly gets laid at the feet of Love and his lack of accuracy/leadership/decision making/etc.

How many incompletions are due to WRs not being where they're supposed to be on a pass that is thrown before they come out of their break and are subsequently cast as accuracy issues with Love? Love is many times throwing to a spot, be it a yardage point or 1st down marker. We can't know for certain but it is evident it's happening. The lazy response is to blame it all on Love, of course.

This is the lot of being the QB. You get too much praise when things go well and all the blame when things go south.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 08:23

APB wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 07:43

musclestang wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 05:26

Then I have to consider all the other youth, how much is that contributing to his slower process on the field? indecisive throws? presnap reads, seemingly errant throws?

This.

Love hasn't been perfect by any stretch but I believe a culmination of errors from this young offensive squad had made it appear he's worse than he is. We see errors virtually every week from receivers who haven't figured out how to run a proper route or catch a ball when it's delivered as a catchable ball. It all seemingly gets laid at the feet of Love and his lack of accuracy/leadership/decision making/etc.

How many incompletions are due to WRs not being where they're supposed to be on a pass that is thrown before they come out of their break and are subsequently cast as accuracy issues with Love? Love is many times throwing to a spot, be it a yardage point or 1st down marker. We can't know for certain but it is evident it's happening. The lazy response is to blame it all on Love, of course.

So here's a perfect example of all this:


It's hard to see, but can be found in the QB School video. Watch Musgrave run the double move and look back on the out before running the up. He gets the underneath defender to bite, but there is a safety over the top. Watson, on the other hand, doesn't look back on the double move and a savvy DB like Peterson isn't fooled and makes a good play to pop the ball up. Added to that Love is a touch short on the pass giving Peterson space to make that play. It's just a culmination of a lot of things right now. One thing that seems to be true most of the time is the passes are just a tick off in the accuracy department. It's improving and when this all gels and comes together that stuff may disappear with more confidence. However, to say he is consistently late, or playing without anticipation, or making the wrong reads is just not true. Does it happen at times, sure, but it isn't a consistent thing with Love.

Yes, one thing I'm noticing with Love is he is late on many of his throws thus NFL corners and safeties are able to ruin the play. I see this a lot in collegiate QBs too. The better QBs consistently throw to a spot before the receiver is there.

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 08:10

and just as lazy to think that wasn't the case with Rodgers last season, and to make matters worse both QB's had to deal with inconsistent blocking, for anyone to think a QB doesn't think about pass rush after getting rocked a few times early season, and periodically as the season plays out is dreaming, of course it's on there mind, and that my friends is called two braining, thinking about pass rush robs concentration from reading progressions, it makes a QB miss the first window on route progressions (which we see pointed out in QB school each week)

yes we know Love has to be able to deal with that stuff, and he does seem to be improving, but imo pressure is the number one reason QB's fail at this level, coupled of course with inexperienced receivers.

It's why I agree with some others here, if Love fails, it's on Gutekunst shoulders.

Who the hell said anything about Rodgers? Why was that even included as part of your response, let alone the opening sentence??

And again with the spooked QB narrative. Show me a play from the past two weeks that you can show as an example of this "playing scared" thing you keep harping on about in post-after-post, thread-after-thread.

Pugger wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:19

Yes, one thing I'm noticing with Love is he is late on many of his throws thus NFL corners and safeties are able to ruin the play. I see this a lot in collegiate QBs too. The better QBs consistently throw to a spot before the receiver is there.

Sure, he is late on some, but many throws he is playing with good anticipation. I would say that is far from a big issue, especially considering the youth at receiving and timing. It's a narrative that persists, but isn't something that is a big issue. Are there late throws? Absolutely. Is it a consistent problem for him? No.

APB wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:25

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 08:10

and just as lazy to think that wasn't the case with Rodgers last season, and to make matters worse both QB's had to deal with inconsistent blocking, for anyone to think a QB doesn't think about pass rush after getting rocked a few times early season, and periodically as the season plays out is dreaming, of course it's on there mind, and that my friends is called two braining, thinking about pass rush robs concentration from reading progressions, it makes a QB miss the first window on route progressions (which we see pointed out in QB school each week)

yes we know Love has to be able to deal with that stuff, and he does seem to be improving, but imo pressure is the number one reason QB's fail at this level, coupled of course with inexperienced receivers.

It's why I agree with some others here, if Love fails, it's on Gutekunst shoulders.

Who the hell said anything about Rodgers? Why was that even included as part of your response, let alone the opening sentence??

And again with the spooked QB narrative. Show me a play from the past two weeks that you can show as an example of this "playing scared" thing you keep harping on about in post-after-post, thread-after-thread.

because what happened last year correlates to what we see this year, and you refused to buy into it last year, same as you don't buy it this year, not just you either, but half this forum refuses to.

why are you adding in this " playing scarred BS" it's not being scarred of the pass rush, it's simply knowing it's coming, remembering it as something that has come.

now ya want me to point out instances in the last couple games when he's been improving, and he hasn't had to deal with free rushers as he did early in the year.

I'll stick with my opinions because they have merit, you dismiss them as normal for any new QB to have to deal with, tell that to all the QB's who have failed mostly because of what I described.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:36

Pugger wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:19

Yes, one thing I'm noticing with Love is he is late on many of his throws thus NFL corners and safeties are able to ruin the play. I see this a lot in collegiate QBs too. The better QBs consistently throw to a spot before the receiver is there.

Sure, he is late on some, but many throws he is playing with good anticipation. I would say that is far from a big issue, especially considering the youth at receiving and timing. It's a narrative that persists, but isn't something that is a big issue. Are there late throws? Absolutely. Is it a consistent problem for him? No.

wha????? go rewatch, Love is late on the first windows of route progression more then just once or twice a game, even Sullivan said that, and often it's because he has to avoid pressure.

you and others here are so invested in convincing others that Love is good or improving ( which I believe he is) that you gloss over his short comings that still exist, and unless Love improves, he wont make it, and we'll be shopping for a new QB possibly in this next draft.

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:43

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:36

Pugger wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:19

Yes, one thing I'm noticing with Love is he is late on many of his throws thus NFL corners and safeties are able to ruin the play. I see this a lot in collegiate QBs too. The better QBs consistently throw to a spot before the receiver is there.

Sure, he is late on some, but many throws he is playing with good anticipation. I would say that is far from a big issue, especially considering the youth at receiving and timing. It's a narrative that persists, but isn't something that is a big issue. Are there late throws? Absolutely. Is it a consistent problem for him? No.

wha????? go rewatch, Love is late on the first windows of route progression more then just once or twice a game, even Sullivan said that, and often it's because he has to avoid pressure.

you and others here are so invested in convincing others that Love is good or improving ( which I believe he is) that you gloss over his short comings that still exist, and unless Love improves, he wont make it, and we'll be shopping for a new QB possibly in this next draft.

I see you are in argue just to argue mode today. Nothing you said is an accurate response to my post.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:54

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:43

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023 09:36

Sure, he is late on some, but many throws he is playing with good anticipation. I would say that is far from a big issue, especially considering the youth at receiving and timing. It's a narrative that persists, but isn't something that is a big issue. Are there late throws? Absolutely. Is it a consistent problem for him? No.

wha????? go rewatch, Love is late on the first windows of route progression more then just once or twice a game, even Sullivan said that, and often it's because he has to avoid pressure.

you and others here are so invested in convincing others that Love is good or improving ( which I believe he is) that you gloss over his short comings that still exist, and unless Love improves, he wont make it, and we'll be shopping for a new QB possibly in this next draft.

I see you are in argue just to argue mode today. Nothing you said is an accurate response to my post.

Today?