Packers Huddle

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 23:30

Drj820 wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 22:38

Yal should read the kurt benkhe thread on Lafleur and his offense

can you post?

I don't know how to post but summary he said mlf is a dik and his offense is outdated.

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 08:33

I am seeing early-years Jared Goff, an overall middling QB that would make some big-time throws and have nice games that showed you why he was a first-round pick, followed up by games where he flat-out stinks.

Goff is good now albeit not an elite QB, but it took a while to reach this point, and his original team decided to deal him for an established vet. DET seems happy with him but LA probably is not too broken up about not having him.

And he had McVay to help his development along. We tried to go a similar route at HC, but it seems clear to me that LaFleur is no McVay. If anything, Tom Clements had more to do with making Love playable than MLF did.

Love would have to improve pretty fast for them to be on the same trajectory. Goff threw 28 TDs and only 7 INTs in his second seasons after starting only seven games as a rookie and had a passer rating of 100.5 that year.

CWIMM wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 04:25

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 08:33

I am seeing early-years Jared Goff, an overall middling QB that would make some big-time throws and have nice games that showed you why he was a first-round pick, followed up by games where he flat-out stinks.

Goff is good now albeit not an elite QB, but it took a while to reach this point, and his original team decided to deal him for an established vet. DET seems happy with him but LA probably is not too broken up about not having him.

And he had McVay to help his development along. We tried to go a similar route at HC, but it seems clear to me that LaFleur is no McVay. If anything, Tom Clements had more to do with making Love playable than MLF did.

Love would have to improve pretty fast for them to be on the same trajectory. Goff threw 28 TDs and only 7 INTs in his second seasons after starting only seven games as a rookie and had a passer rating of 100.5 that year.

Love played well when he had time to throw. He does not deal well with pressure. And lets face it, the Oline is not very good. Bottom 5 in the league so far.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 04:59

Love played well when he had time to throw. He does not deal well with pressure. And lets face it, the Oline is not very good. Bottom 5 in the league so far.

As mentioned in another thread that's not true. According to PFF only three quarterbacks have been pressured on a smaller percentage of dropbacks than Love so far. In addition he ranks only 21st in passer rating when kept clean.

CWIMM wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 05:24

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 04:59

Love played well when he had time to throw. He does not deal well with pressure. And lets face it, the Oline is not very good. Bottom 5 in the league so far.

As mentioned in another thread that's not true. According to PFF only three quarterbacks have been pressured on a smaller percentage of dropbacks than Love so far. In addition he ranks only 21st in passer rating when kept clean.

PFF is strange. For example, vs the Raiders Preston Smith was rated last on D, because of a 25 pass coverage grade. But Preston Smith should NEVER be asked to cover Devonte Adams.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 05:39

PFF is strange. For example, vs the Raiders Preston Smith was rated last on D, because of a 25 pass coverage grade. But Preston Smith should NEVER be asked to cover Devonte Adams.

I don't put a whole lot of stock into their grades but their premium stats are actually pretty telling.

I'm about in the same place with Love as I was before he was the starter. He obviously has the physical tools. He seems to have a good mindset. He obviously has a lot to learn as the X's and O's move around the field in live game action. He's going to make mistakes. There's a learning curve. There always is. It's very hard to tell what's going on as our Oline has not been up to par lately and we have youth at every pass catching position on the field.

That's a lot of variables. Lots of zigging when supposed to be zagging etc. It's going to look worse than it is at times. I'm not going to sugar coat it, they looked terrible recently. outside a couple of quarters this offense has been downright bad. It's hard to say anything else at this point.

But I still see a lot of potential, not only in the QB, but the pass catchers. I don't really know what to say, I have a saying every day I have to tell people, "you can't beat physiology". It means a lot of things depending on the situation but mostly it means do what is necessary and give it time, it always takes time. Nothing works, progresses, etc without time and work. and nothing is ever finished.

Lots of kids have a lot to learn. Including Love. We all wanted him to perform like a 4th year vet, but the reality is, he may know the offense on paper, but half the other guys don't, and he's never done it live really. I'm hoping in the 2nd half of the season we start to see some growth. But we need our oline to catch up in a hurry and pass catchers to be on the same page too.

I remember going thru games last year on a different forum when everyone was bagging Rodgers and there were 4 dropped passes or fumbles in that game on 3rd down that were easy completions that would have given the offense 12 more plays minimum. Offenses start to come to life when they can run more plays. They weren't doing the easy stuff and everything else looked so disjointed because of it.

This is no different. Get a receiver on the wrong page, drive is dead. Oline commits holding or lets rushers run by them without even putting a hand on them? drive is dead. This team isn't good enough to withstand any of that yet. They need to be better at the little things and just start getting first downs.

CWIMM wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 05:45

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 05:39

PFF is strange. For example, vs the Raiders Preston Smith was rated last on D, because of a 25 pass coverage grade. But Preston Smith should NEVER be asked to cover Devonte Adams.

I don't put a whole lot of stock into their grades but their premium stats are actually pretty telling.

Love has faced free rushers in every game, multiple times in most games and the last 2 games every series he plays.

why anyone thinks that wont get into a young QB's head doesn't make a lic of sense to me, of course it does, it's the main driver of why the NFL has a revolving door with QB's and most never amount to much.

PFF was pretty good years ago, now, not so much.

Looks like we found out new pet topic for the next couple of months.

‘Here’s a website that shows stats and this one is about Preston Smith’

‘I cannot believe everyone doesn’t think exactly like me about Love and the OL’

bud fox wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 23:49

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 23:30

Drj820 wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 22:38

Yal should read the kurt benkhe thread on Lafleur and his offense

can you post?

I don't know how to post but summary he said mlf is a dik and his offense is outdated.

I didn’t post bc he wrote a novel and you have to login on browser to see the full tweet and I never login to apps on browser. It’s all the apps really get all your data and everything about ya. I was hoping someone could post a screen shot of the full comments. From what I could see tho, he basically implied he got cut because Lafleur didn’t like him and he said the offense is outdated and he hasn’t evolved in since he was an assistant coach

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 04:59

CWIMM wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 04:25

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2023 08:33

I am seeing early-years Jared Goff, an overall middling QB that would make some big-time throws and have nice games that showed you why he was a first-round pick, followed up by games where he flat-out stinks.

Goff is good now albeit not an elite QB, but it took a while to reach this point, and his original team decided to deal him for an established vet. DET seems happy with him but LA probably is not too broken up about not having him.

And he had McVay to help his development along. We tried to go a similar route at HC, but it seems clear to me that LaFleur is no McVay. If anything, Tom Clements had more to do with making Love playable than MLF did.

Love would have to improve pretty fast for them to be on the same trajectory. Goff threw 28 TDs and only 7 INTs in his second seasons after starting only seven games as a rookie and had a passer rating of 100.5 that year.

Love played well when he had time to throw. He does not deal well with pressure. And lets face it, the Oline is not very good. Bottom 5 in the league so far.

This.

We saw a better offensive line the first week or two. Since then, it has flat out been bad. Better QBs would have a hard time when under pressure so frequently.

Look, some of the Packers fan base swore up and down last season that this team would have been more competitive with Love at QB than Rodgers. At this point, that argument is absolutely BTFO.

That being said, I am not giving up on Jordan Love. This next game is going to carry a lot of weight for me. Denver is buried in the &%$@ house of the league in just about every conceivable passing defense statistic. It is really important to me that Love show some kind of resilience in this game. If he comes back and gives us another Raider game, I think that will be it for me.

Papa John wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 09:52

Look, some of the Packers fan base swore up and down last season that this team would have been more competitive with Love at QB than Rodgers. At this point, that argument is absolutely BTFO.

That being said, I am not giving up on Jordan Love. This next game is going to carry a lot of weight for me. Denver is buried in the &%$@ house of the league in just about every conceivable passing defense statistic. It is really important to me that Love show some kind of resilience in this game. If he comes back and gives us another Raider game, I think that will be it for me.

Just the messenger and this was tweeted 5 minutes ago:

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:04

Papa John wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 09:52

Look, some of the Packers fan base swore up and down last season that this team would have been more competitive with Love at QB than Rodgers. At this point, that argument is absolutely BTFO.

That being said, I am not giving up on Jordan Love. This next game is going to carry a lot of weight for me. Denver is buried in the &%$@ house of the league in just about every conceivable passing defense statistic. It is really important to me that Love show some kind of resilience in this game. If he comes back and gives us another Raider game, I think that will be it for me.

Just the messenger and this was tweet 5 minutes ago:

23, thanks for the info. What is EPA?

Papa John wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:11

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:04

Papa John wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 09:52

Look, some of the Packers fan base swore up and down last season that this team would have been more competitive with Love at QB than Rodgers. At this point, that argument is absolutely BTFO.

That being said, I am not giving up on Jordan Love. This next game is going to carry a lot of weight for me. Denver is buried in the &%$@ house of the league in just about every conceivable passing defense statistic. It is really important to me that Love show some kind of resilience in this game. If he comes back and gives us another Raider game, I think that will be it for me.

Just the messenger and this was tweet 5 minutes ago:

23, thanks for the info. What is EPA?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/837 ... nts-metric

This gist:

The overall point here is that EPA is the granular, play-by-play version of what wins the game. The team that has more points wins 100 percent of all games, but points don't change with every play in the game. Yards, first downs and turnovers are significant and do change somewhat on a play-by-play basis, but those are crude subdivisions of points that aren't even on the same scale and don't always correlate with winning.

EPA accounts for all of those events and ends up matching the score at the end of the game. Because EPA also changes on a play-by-play basis, it is the correct way to split up those points on the scoreboard. If you want something that, at the end of the game, is as good as the score at saying who wins but that also changes with every play in the game, use EPA.

I don't even know what an EPA/play is LOL

Yeah I still maintane the Packers would have had a very similar W/L record if Love was QB in 2022 compared to our actual W/L record.

We were 8-9 in 2022. If Jordan was QB I still think we sweep the Bears, beat MN (because that was just that game where defense and STs took over), beat the hapless Rams.

So that is 4 wins.

The games that could go either way include

Games We Won
Tampa Bay
New England
Miami

Games We Lost
WASH
at DET
DET

I think it's fair to say we don't beat Dallas. But I also think it's fair to say winning 2 - 4 of the "either way" games is very likely which still puts us in that 6 - 8 wins range just as we were in 2022.

Yeah the offense was putrid at this time last season and we were losing to lousy teams like WAS. It came to life as Christian Watson emerged as a threat in the receiving game, aided by a stretch of us playing pretty poor defenses.

Rodgers's QB play was pedestrian before said emergence/stretch. Love was decent but fell off in the last two weeks. Love has better defense and OL play than Rodgers did by this point but Love's weapons have been worse so far, due largely to injury but also due to inexperience.

musclestang wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:20

I don't even know what an EPA/play is LOL

who does?
joke, deleted

I know some of this stuff is confusing for me, it takes in all variables with a synopsis of why the play of one player is better then another, how accurate, who knows, there are analytics for everything these days.

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out