Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:09

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:48

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:36

then why do you bring PFF grades for Gary yet show PFR for Donald?

you pull this &%$@ all the time and all it does is confuse everyone!


so lets use PFR then, in what freaking universe is 30 plus total pressures a season considered even good for a edge rusher, you have him ranked 9th among all edge rushers this season with 23 rushes with PFF, yet you expect me to believe 10 total pressures has him ranked 9th with PFR? this doesn't even make sense.

I didn't bring PFF grade for Gary only. I brought PFR pressure stats for both.

No one said PFRs 10 pressures for Gary has him ranked 9th. I have not looked up where his rank is on PFR.

I am sorry it doesn't make sense to you.

well how can Gary have 23 pressures and a 9th over all ranking (which seems about right to me), yet GPG just showed that he had just over 10 pressures total from the same sight (PFR)

I looked for PFR grades today, but they don't come out till tomorrow, and often I've seen grades change with PFF from these instant grades we see this morning to when there consensus grades come out mid week.

I think you're alone in being lost here. I understood and thought 23 was pretty transparent in his stats he has presented in all of this.

We all understand that PFR and PFF are different in their grading. I just asked the question that what does PFR constitute as a "pressure" because for instance yesterday, I don't think Gary had much.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:06

Let's cool it on the Garvin stuff. When you actually look at the Garvin plays, they are not in the same zip code as the Gary plays. Often Garvin is either helped because the QB is pushed into Garvin (by Gary) or it's a coverage clean up play.

Garvin has been admirable to watch, but he is absolutely a step down from Rashan Gary.

Yeah I am excited to see the progress from year one to year two and see him elevate from a guy you might not want on the field to a guy that can play a fulltime role and hold up, but he has shown no signs yet of playing like a star. Just a useful player who still has a lot of future ahead of him due to his youth when he entered the draft. I didn't mean for my commentary to indicate anything else.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:09

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:48

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:36

then why do you bring PFF grades for Gary yet show PFR for Donald?

you pull this &%$@ all the time and all it does is confuse everyone!


so lets use PFR then, in what freaking universe is 30 plus total pressures a season considered even good for a edge rusher, you have him ranked 9th among all edge rushers this season with 23 rushes with PFF, yet you expect me to believe 10 total pressures has him ranked 9th with PFR? this doesn't even make sense.

I didn't bring PFF grade for Gary only. I brought PFR pressure stats for both.

No one said PFRs 10 pressures for Gary has him ranked 9th. I have not looked up where his rank is on PFR.

I am sorry it doesn't make sense to you.

well how can Gary have 23 pressures and a 9th over all ranking (which seems about right to me), yet GPG just showed that he had just over 10 pressures total from the same sight (PFR)

Paco brought a twitter post showing PFF has Gary at 23 pressures, ranked 9th. Not something I brought. Also not the same place go pack go got 10 pressures, which was from PFR. The general public doesn't have access to PFF, thus we use PFR.

PFF and PFR don't evaluate and tally pressures the same. We have gone over this...

I looked for PFR grades today, but they don't come out till tomorrow, and often I've seen grades change with PFF from these instant grades we see this morning to when there consensus grades come out mid week.

PFR has their stats up today.
PFF also has their grades up today and have stated many times they rarely revise their grades. There is no "consensus" grades that come out mid week.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:06

Let's cool it on the Garvin stuff. When you actually look at the Garvin plays, they are not in the same zip code as the Gary plays. Often Garvin is either helped because the QB is pushed into Garvin (by Gary) or it's a coverage clean up play.

Garvin has been admirable to watch, but he is absolutely a step down from Rashan Gary.

Yeah I am excited to see the progress from year one to year two and see him elevate from a guy you might not want on the field to a guy that can play a fulltime role and hold up, but he has shown no signs yet of playing like a star. Just a useful player who still has a lot of future ahead of him due to his youth when he entered the draft. I didn't mean for my commentary to indicate anything else.

We were at points of the season of essentially having "give up" plays when it was Garvin and Rivers early in season.

Now we are at the point where I don't view it as a "give up" play when Garvin is out there.

Man if we get Z back (and more importantly an effective Z) that would be a SICK 4 man rotation.

Oh yeah! Rivers.

We’re losing so many players I’m forgetting about the depth guys we’ve lost haha

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:14

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:06

Let's cool it on the Garvin stuff. When you actually look at the Garvin plays, they are not in the same zip code as the Gary plays. Often Garvin is either helped because the QB is pushed into Garvin (by Gary) or it's a coverage clean up play.

Garvin has been admirable to watch, but he is absolutely a step down from Rashan Gary.

Yeah I am excited to see the progress from year one to year two and see him elevate from a guy you might not want on the field to a guy that can play a fulltime role and hold up, but he has shown no signs yet of playing like a star. Just a useful player who still has a lot of future ahead of him due to his youth when he entered the draft. I didn't mean for my commentary to indicate anything else.

We were at points of the season of essentially having "give up" plays when it was Garvin and Rivers early in season.

Now we are at the point where I don't view it as a "give up" play when Garvin is out there.

Man if we get Z back (and more importantly an effective Z) that would be a SICK 4 man rotation.

5 man pass rush with Clark, Gary, and Z inside. Preston and Garvin outside for when you really want to get after the QB. Oooooohweeeeeee.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 10:39

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 10:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 10:20

doesn't matter if someone said a good thing about Hawk, if they ever said anything bad that means ya hate him for life

You're absolutely right, pleb -- Gary is YOUR DADDY and anyone who dares criticize him will be bullied by #GaryGang!

GangGary,

If ya have to wait 3 years for a 12 slot player to produce then that is a miss imo, and if he hits now then he'll cost a fortune to resign, thats not a great turn around on the investment, Simmons has been producing since he was a rookie.

I never did hate Gary, I simply didn't think he'd bring the most bang for the buck and he's proved me right

Just stop with that. Just because there is literally no one else between 13 to whatever that was definitely better than Gary, you are resorting to defending a fricken woman beater. It's embarrassing. That character has zero place on our team.

Brian Burns
Rashan Gary
Overall both Burns and Gary are pretty much even from a "production per play" after the rookie season. I would argue that Gary's 10 pressures have been more valuable than Burns's 10 pressures for 2021. I would also venture to guess Gary is much better vs the run.

I feel like the measuring stick in my eyes will always be Burns since that was the other most "logical selection" at 12. Looking at other people is just using hindsight and moving the goal post "told ya so"

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:42

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 10:39

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 10:31

You're absolutely right, pleb -- Gary is YOUR DADDY and anyone who dares criticize him will be bullied by #GaryGang!

GangGary,

If ya have to wait 3 years for a 12 slot player to produce then that is a miss imo, and if he hits now then he'll cost a fortune to resign, thats not a great turn around on the investment, Simmons has been producing since he was a rookie.

I never did hate Gary, I simply didn't think he'd bring the most bang for the buck and he's proved me right

Just stop with that. Just because there is literally no one else between 13 to whatever that was definitely better than Gary, you are resorting to defending a fricken woman beater. It's embarrassing. That character has zero place on our team.

NO I wont stop, Simmons has been clean ever since that instance when he defended his sister, one situation when a person is young doesn't define them unless the bad behavor continues, whats embarrassing is spending a 100 plus mil. on pass rushers in UFA and then spending slot 12 on one that needs a lot of coaching up

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:13

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:09

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 11:48

I didn't bring PFF grade for Gary only. I brought PFR pressure stats for both.

No one said PFRs 10 pressures for Gary has him ranked 9th. I have not looked up where his rank is on PFR.

I am sorry it doesn't make sense to you.

well how can Gary have 23 pressures and a 9th over all ranking (which seems about right to me), yet GPG just showed that he had just over 10 pressures total from the same sight (PFR)

Paco brought a twitter post showing PFF has Gary at 23 pressures, ranked 9th. Not something I brought. Also not the same place go pack go got 10 pressures, which was from PFR. The general public doesn't have access to PFF, thus we use PFR.

PFF and PFR don't evaluate and tally pressures the same. We have gone over this...

I looked for PFR grades today, but they don't come out till tomorrow, and often I've seen grades change with PFF from these instant grades we see this morning to when there consensus grades come out mid week.

PFR has their stats up today.
PFF also has their grades up today and have stated many times they rarely revise their grades. There is no "consensus" grades that come out mid week.

they didn't have them up when I looked early this morn, and PFF does change there grades mid week, they have about 9 full time graders, and well over 100 part time guys that just work on Sunday, the grades Paco brought are from the part time guys, today and tomorrow these grades will be reviewed, and any changes will be posted wed. or thur.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:47

I feel like the measuring stick in my eyes will always be Burns since that was the other most "logical selection" at 12. Looking at other people is just using hindsight and moving the goal post "told ya so"

I, too, prefer Burns as the measuring stick. Great post.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:47

I feel like the measuring stick in my eyes will always be Burns since that was the other most "logical selection" at 12. Looking at other people is just using hindsight and moving the goal post "told ya so"

I, too, prefer Burns as the measuring stick. Great post.

I have Burns, Sweat, Wilkins and Lawrence all ahead of Simmons as Gary pick alternatives.

But I'm tired of the same old conversation, and we all know yoop is never gonna give Simmons up, never gonna let Simmons down, never gonna run around and desert Simmons. That's unconditional draft love.

i will not lie and act like i was over the moon we used our highest draft pick in years on Gary.

He was pretty much then exactly how he is now...a measurables "freak", that gets close alot...but doesnt get "home" as much as you would expect or desire. Look at his Michigan stats, they were rough.

Hes doing fine as a player, at this point he is not acting like a #12 overall...but maybe by the time he wants a new deal he will.

I still think the best thing to do would have been to give draft capital to get up to #9 or #10 in the draft and go get Ed Oliver or Devon Bush. Now those boys can play.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 13:04

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:47

I feel like the measuring stick in my eyes will always be Burns since that was the other most "logical selection" at 12. Looking at other people is just using hindsight and moving the goal post "told ya so"

I, too, prefer Burns as the measuring stick. Great post.

I have Burns, Sweat, Wilkins and Lawrence all ahead of Simmons as Gary pick alternatives.

But I'm tired of the same old conversation, and we all know yoop is never gonna give Simmons up, never gonna let Simmons down, never gonna run around and desert Simmons. That's unconditional draft love.

Oh we all know that isn't true. We just need to wait until some other player pops up from the 2019 draft to change his tune.

Jeff Simmons was hardly on his mind until midway through last year. During the fall of 2019, we all said yoop would never let go of not trading up for Devin Bush or taking Noah Fant. Now it's like those two were never in the conversation.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 12:47

I feel like the measuring stick in my eyes will always be Burns since that was the other most "logical selection" at 12. Looking at other people is just using hindsight and moving the goal post "told ya so"

I, too, prefer Burns as the measuring stick. Great post.

imho the most ready to play edge rushers where already gone when we picked, I wanted one of several players from that class not named Gary my fav I think that I thought might be available was the Lber Bush, then I think I wanted Fant the TE, then I wanted Simmons, there was another DT I liked but can't remember his name now.

this is all water over the bridge now of course, and like everyone I hope Rashad gets 80 pressures and 19 sacks, but I won't hold my breath till he does that

Gary is a good kid. Only polarizing because we never get to pick top 15 and we wanted somebody who would be better than Gary currently is. Its all good.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 13:06

I still think the best thing to do would have been to give draft capital to get up to #9 or #10 in the draft and go get Ed Oliver or Devon Bush. Now those boys can play.

I still think the best thing to do would have been to trade BACK for Savage instead of up for him, and use the extra second round pick on DK Metcalf and a couple of mid-round guys including Maxx Crosby with one of the 4th rounders (who I loved at the time, but maybe mostly because my name is Max)



But honestly I did like Maxx Crosby, I did like Burns, I wasn't thrilled with Gary, and I hated DK Metcalf as a projected top ten pick, but recognized the value by the end of the second round, so this is only like 40% hindsight.

Anyway, I'm fine with Gary. He's cool, he's pretty good; I hope he continues to build like Preston and Z did in years 3-5 of their careers.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 13:16

...
this is all water over the bridge now of course, and like everyone I hope Rashad gets 80 pressures and 19 sacks, but I won't hold my breath till he does that

We should fire that bridge builder. Sounds unsafe.

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 13:18

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Oct 2021 13:16

...
this is all water over the bridge now of course, and like everyone I hope Rashad gets 80 pressures and 19 sacks, but I won't hold my breath till he does that

We should fire that bridge builder. Sounds unsafe.

Subconsciously acknowledging this topic is no where near over him.