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In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
I liked the Savage pick at the time, but it also continues to increase my conviction that drafting for players is superior to checking the box on a position. Safety was a bigger need but that class was a better WR class (even though it seemed loaded at safety at the time)APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
complete horse manure DR.Drj820 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 23:02I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
To me, Savage has under performed his ability for the most part while here. He has the range and the skills to be an excellent safety. At times he even shows it. I don't view him as the garbage a lot of fans do, he's much better than that, but he's also not close to what his physical ability can allow him to be. Is it the player or the coaching? or both.go pak go wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:57I liked the Savage pick at the time, but it also continues to increase my conviction that drafting for players is superior to checking the box on a position. Safety was a bigger need but that class was a better WR class (even though it seemed loaded at safety at the time)APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
Just draft good players. Of course that is easier said than done.
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 07:02complete horse manure DR.Drj820 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 23:02I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39
In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
the chant here since I started complaining about receivers is that who we had was good enough, problem is rarely ever did we have two receivers in any one game go for more then a 100 yrds, and if we lost one rarely ever did another pick up the slack, and we lose.
during this basically 8 year span our GM's spent practically every high pick on defense, and for the most part it's been a failure.
also Adams ascended long before 2019, and neither of MVS or Lazard ascended to anything, I've never said either was a #2 receiver, MVS had a nice rookie season, however his next couple season where not much better, same with Lazard, but obviously that was good enough for this crowd.
mind bending insanity is what this has been, yet rather then complain about these short comings by the GM's, Rodgers got the blame for not turning all these jags into Jordy Nelsons, and was blamed for it every time we lost a big game.
we needed a safety, what we didn't need was Gary, we could have traded back gained another pick and filled every needed position, and still gotten Metcalf, Gary sat behind the Smiths for over 2 seasons, that he is great now didn't help us at all for those two seasons, thats why I hated that pick.
if ya use all the high picks on groomers, by the time they develop it's time to pay them, imo thats something ya do with QB's, high pick edge rushers should be starting at some point as a rookie, I guess that kind of reasoning is lost here, D&D shouldn't mean half the rookie contract for god sakes.
the proof of what I'am saying is the youth of this team, the jags, these fabulous players picked in the last 6 to 8 drafts are no longer here, why? simple, they never amounted to more then jags.
sorry then, I mis read your post, just seemed like you where saying Bud and I called those Jags #2 receivers.
It's just a useless exercise as a criticism of the GM. Obviously if they knew then what we now then even they would have done it differently too, and would have a 100% pick success rate. Hindsight is 50/50.
It is not useless to use hindsight. Yes hindsight is 100% accurate but if a GM sucks a GM sucks and hindsight will show that.Labrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 08:21It's just a useless exercise as a criticism of the GM. Obviously if they knew then what we now then even they would have done it differently too, and would have a 100% pick success rate. Hindsight is 50/50.
Also, I remember which 2019 draft pick we made ahead Metcalf that people on this forum were criticizing at the time i.e. *without* Hindsight Power. Hint: it wasn't Savage!
I was one of those people. I still stand behind it. That group was good enough to support 2 MVP campaigns by the QB. If they were just scrubs, to the extent that is alleged by their detractors, that wouldn't have been possible.Drj820 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 23:02I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
I don't tend to zero in on this or that player as much as just liking a bunch, I've never said that I know more then any GM, or even anyone else here when it comes to the draft, typically I tend to pick position over BPA because that tends to be how GM's pick most players too, just go look at drafts if ya don't believe me.Labrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 08:21It's just a useless exercise as a criticism of the GM. Obviously if they knew then what we now then even they would have done it differently too, and would have a 100% pick success rate. Hindsight is 50/50.
Also, I remember which 2019 draft pick we made ahead Metcalf that people on this forum were criticizing at the time i.e. *without* Hindsight Power. Hint: it wasn't Savage!
he won those titles for doing more with less then other QB's, it's most valuable player to a teams success, it's not a OPY award which is won over every offensive playerLabrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 09:37I was one of those people. I still stand behind it. That group was good enough to support 2 MVP campaigns by the QB. If they were just scrubs, to the extent that is alleged by their detractors, that wouldn't have been possible.Drj820 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 23:02I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39
In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
It takes very little skill to look at a roster. Find the holes and then do a draft simulator to "fill that hole" for the upcoming season.Yoop wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 09:49I don't tend to zero in on this or that player as much as just liking a bunch, I've never said that I know more then any GM, or even anyone else here when it comes to the draft, typically I tend to pick position over BPA because that tends to be how GM's pick most players too, just go look at drafts if ya don't believe me.Labrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 08:21It's just a useless exercise as a criticism of the GM. Obviously if they knew then what we now then even they would have done it differently too, and would have a 100% pick success rate. Hindsight is 50/50.
Also, I remember which 2019 draft pick we made ahead Metcalf that people on this forum were criticizing at the time i.e. *without* Hindsight Power. Hint: it wasn't Savage!
we needed a safety as well as a OL in that 019 draft, we had edge rushers up the ying yang, we sure didn't need Gary, and we also needed to improve the WR position, the lame ass argument that this offense had high output during that season and the several that followed, mattered little come PO games, sure we can blame those losses on other things that went wrong, point is this offense was not able to over come any of that, points matter, and those top 3 rarely ever score points.
business take inventory so as to fix or repair things it failed at prior, Guty finally realized ( late) that points producers win games.
how anyone can support his feeble attempts to fix that position prior, and using practically every high pick on defense is mind boggling to me
ya can draft for the present as well as the future, GM's do so all the time, we used slot 8 on one of the hardest transition positions with BJ Raji, he played well right away, same with Mathews, the biggest reason players rank top 10 isn't just about what they can groom up to be, no, it's how ready they are to contribute right then, grooming is what you expect to have to do with later round picks.go pak go wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 10:03It takes very little skill to look at a roster. Find the holes and then do a draft simulator to "fill that hole" for the upcoming season.Yoop wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 09:49I don't tend to zero in on this or that player as much as just liking a bunch, I've never said that I know more then any GM, or even anyone else here when it comes to the draft, typically I tend to pick position over BPA because that tends to be how GM's pick most players too, just go look at drafts if ya don't believe me.Labrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 08:21
It's just a useless exercise as a criticism of the GM. Obviously if they knew then what we now then even they would have done it differently too, and would have a 100% pick success rate. Hindsight is 50/50.
Also, I remember which 2019 draft pick we made ahead Metcalf that people on this forum were criticizing at the time i.e. *without* Hindsight Power. Hint: it wasn't Savage!
we needed a safety as well as a OL in that 019 draft, we had edge rushers up the ying yang, we sure didn't need Gary, and we also needed to improve the WR position, the lame ass argument that this offense had high output during that season and the several that followed, mattered little come PO games, sure we can blame those losses on other things that went wrong, point is this offense was not able to over come any of that, points matter, and those top 3 rarely ever score points.
business take inventory so as to fix or repair things it failed at prior, Guty finally realized ( late) that points producers win games.
how anyone can support his feeble attempts to fix that position prior, and using practically every high pick on defense is mind boggling to me
Everyone can do it. Everyone can understand it.
Successful people, business leaders and NFL GMs need long range vision and strategy be successful in the long run. This often means making decisions that don't make sense in the immediate because it's an investment that will pay off years later.
No question Gary is an investment that has paid off 2021 and 2023. 2022 would have been a pay off too but a freak injury got in the way. The mear thought that a budding pass rushing star is viewed as a mistake draft pick just aboslutely blows my mind.
This is where you would fall if you don’t just want to give the QB credit and recognize he gotta lot of scrubs paid.Labrev wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023 09:37I was one of those people. I still stand behind it. That group was good enough to support 2 MVP campaigns by the QB. If they were just scrubs, to the extent that is alleged by their detractors, that wouldn't have been possible.Drj820 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 23:02I certainly remember several people telling me, Yoop, bud fox and other football guys that mvs and Lazard were WR2s and all the packers needed…but many of us did not buy that at all. MVS was fast with no hands from day one. Lazard is a blocker who can’t separate.APB wrote: ↑01 Dec 2023 21:39
In 2019 the Packers had an ascending Davante Adams, MVS, and Alan Lazard on the roster (among others). Their WR room looked to be a non-priority position. It’s easy to look back today and play the woulda-shoulda game but in the moment the picks they made were very, very reasonable.
