2023 Packers Defense Expectations?

[lupedafiasco]

Not sure how anyone can argue that Barry is better than Pettine.

Barry has coached one of the all time worst defenses in league history. Right now he has significantly better talent than Pettine did and is still garbage. He’s got 4 more 1st round players on top of the ones Pettine had, although it can be argued most of them aren’t very good.

I think Pettine was fine as a coordinator. He had some really !@#$ poor ILBs he tried to make work the best he could. On top of that he had to deal with trying to make Kevin King work (great $5M resign lol).

[Labrev]

Barry has at least come through for us when it matters most. His defense gave up 3 points (arguably not even that) in his game against the 9ers, and held DET to 20 in the final game of last season, a team that had real momentum and was on the cusp of a playoff berth until SEA won their game.

Pettine letting up 220 yards to a single running back such that the opposing offense only attempted a single-digit number of passes, that is unheard of.

Lack of talent my ass, we ponied up for the Smiths, added Amos, had Kenny Clark, and had just added two guys in the draft that are now our best players on defense.

[Yoop]

No he didn't. Stopping the run is fundamental. If you can't stop the run, you don't have a defense, and even the worst QBs can beat you because all they need to do to convert is dink and dunk.

It made *no sense* to sell everything out to stop the pass when SF was running **so effectively** that they largely did not even bother passing the ball.

Neither Barry nor Pettine understand this, but Pettine's schemes are an order of magnitude worse at being exploited than Barry's.

stopping run yrds is obviously less important then stopping the pass, other wise no one would play prevent, no one would draft pass rushers.

Look at what happened to Zadarius Smith in that game. He is a great pass-rusher, but his great pass-rush was rendered useless because he could not stop the run. SF ran at him all game to make sure he never got many opportunities to rush the QB.

Stopping the run is fundamental. That obviously does not mean ONLY try to stop the run, or that teams should only invest in run-stopping DL and LBs. It means that before you try to stop the pass, you need to put the pass in situations that make it hard for them to get completions and conversions and force them to make risky throws.

so now we have Gary who is just as bad, so we've had that containment issue with both cords

I would agree that ya need to do better against the run then we have, but if I have to chose, I build a defense to stop the pass first because teams are beaten more do to poor coverage then ever lose as we did in several games failing to stop the run, your using a couple of our worst games to make your point, simply doing better then we did would have probably been enough for us to win.

this is so obviously a scheme issue, and it's been the team mind set for over a decade, bring pass rush and play soft prevent zone, make no penalty's, and simply outscore everyone you play, for the most part a winning formula, except when we can't stop the opposing offense and our defense becomes gassed, sometimes thats because we couldn't stop the run, others the pass.

why since we have better players to cover the pass do we still play so much nickel and dime as though it was years back when our ILB's where 2 dn dirt dogs, why after drafting 3 DL players this season and a first rounder last year along with Clark are we still using 20 fronts and 2 gaping.

It's really hard to figure out Joe Barry, both of his predecessors imo would have us in more base 3-4 and man coverage.

[Labrev]

I would agree that ya need to do better against the run then we have, but if I have to chose, I build a defense to stop the pass first

Well that is the philosophy Barry has followed, so.... enjoy your defense.

[LombardiTime]

After 5 games the Packers are tied for 18th in allowing 21.4 points per game.

Not really close to top 10 at the moment, which is disappointing.

[Yoop]

I would agree that ya need to do better against the run then we have, but if I have to chose, I build a defense to stop the pass first

Well that is the philosophy Barry has followed, so.... enjoy your defense.

no it isn't, do you see tight coverage, Barry does one thing, rush the QB, thats only one part of defending the pass

your so bent on running the ball and defending the run, you overlook that it's a passing league and most DC focus on stopping the big play and passing because that is what scores points and wins games, yes it's important to establish the run, most offenses tend to do that hoping it will open up passing, defenses hope to stop it because it makes offenses more predictable, but it's far more rare for a team to succeed running because it is hard to do so without having a drive ending penalty because usually it takes more plays.

why your so bent on disagreeing with this, who knows.

[Pckfn23]

Someone let Joe Barry know!

[Pckfn23]

Bend but don't break D doesn't work when you break too often...

[Pckfn23]

Then why isn't there a check to get out of that??

I am almost to the point where I think Barry is mailing it in McCarthy style. Going up and getting those massages instead of game planning.

[wallyuwl]

I am almost to the point where I think Barry is mailing it in McCarthy style. Going up and getting those massages instead of game planning.

I think it is more that he just isn't very smart or a good coordinator.

[BSA]

Here's Larry with a quickie on Rasul Douglas and his redemption after the Lions game. Nice to see the vet CB bounce back and he delivered the highest ranking on the Packers defense last week per PFF

https://www.packers.com/video/rock-repo ... uglas-2023


Also - Eric Stokes is also practicing again, will be interesting to see how they mete out the DB snaps going forward. Stokes can play dime snaps and spell the other outside CBs from time to time but it seems GB coaches really like Nixon's physicality in the slot so I don't think we see Stokes moving inside.

" Stokes, whose 40-yard dash in 2021 was clocked in the low 4.2s, said he’d been able to run full speed since training camp started in late July and isn’t worried about losing any of the speed after an arduous rehab process that at one time had him in a wheelchair. That speed, even if in a limited role on special teams starting Sunday, has to be at least of some value."

"As for Stokes, Coach Williams sees the same player he scouted while with the Arizona Cardinals, one who’s fast and can cover well. He’ll need to prove again that he can be the player Green Bay was so high on in 2021 to get back between the white lines.

“There’s really no substitute for playing football,” Williams said. “You can train all you want, but there’s really no substitute for playing football, so we just have to evaluate it day by day with Eric and how he feels and just building up that callous of covering every day, covering down to down, and then it’s a good problem to have — to have too many good corners. I think a lot of guys in the league would love to have that issue. Once we get to that point, we’ll figure out what to do and how to integrate him, but right now, I don’t mind having that problem.”

[BSA]

PackersWire with an article on the back-up ILBs and their performance in replacing Campbell and Walker
It's not easy taking over the green-dot duties

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/1 ... inebacker/

McDuffie has been a very reliable tackler this season, making 27 out of his 28 attempts. In coverage, he has held pass catchers to under nine yards per reception–again, a credit to his tackling ability. Against the Raiders, Wilson finished with one pressure and made seven of his eight tackle attempts while limiting the opponent to just 5.6 yards per catch.

“I think to Eric and Isaiah’s credit,” said linebackers coach Kirk Olivadotti on Monday, “they’ve been ready, they’ve been prepared. And I think that’s something we understood going into it (the Raiders game). They have a hard job because they don’t get as many reps then, especially last week, Eric in the situation he was put it in.

“But I was pretty proud of the way Isaiah and Eric stepped up in the last game and just overall how they are as guys around the building. No matter the circumstances, they’re the same every day, and they’re going to come to work every day and really try to put their best foot forward and get themselves prepared the same all the time, which makes everybody’s life easier because now De’Vondre can concentrate on getting himself healthy.”

[BSA]

A couple of notes on Safety position

Wes Hodkiewicz on Rudy Ford and his back-to-back games with an INT
The Packers cycled through a bevy of candidates at Safety over the summer and Rudy has consistently delivered

https://www.packers.com/video/packers-d ... -ford-ints



GB might also take another look at Tarvarius Moore who was released with an injury settlement in September and should be available to GB shortly
Moore recently had a workout with SF, his former team - but they haven't signed him yet and are dealing with injuries at other positions

" Moore is a player who head coach Matt LaFleur stated would have likely made the 53-man roster, had he been available for Week 1"

[LombardiTime]

Scoring appears to be down a tick through the first 1/3 or so of the season.

GB has faced the following QBs in its 5 contests to date -- 1) Justin Fields (likely the worst starting QB in the NFL?), 2) Desmond Ridder (a bottom 5, bottom 3 QB?), 3) Derek Carr (for just over a half) who is probably about league average, 4) Jared Goff who is probably a top 8 or top 10 QB in 2023, and 5) Jimmy G who is as mediocre as mediocre can be.

And where are the Packers currently ranked in scoring defense?

Tied for 20th overall at 21.4 points per game.

It is galling that the Vikings, with far fewer 1st round picks and not a lot of talent on defense, are just ahead of Green Bay (giving up 21.3 points per game) despite having faced QBs like Hurts, Herbert, and Mahomes.

Coaching matters and the Vikings under first year defensive coordinator Brian Flores are far better coached that the Packers under Joe Barry.

Just sad.

[BF004]

Actually very disappointed we didn’t make a coaching change at the bye….

[BSA]

[APB]

Woah, woah, woah…

So if I’m to understand that chart correctly, the playcalling for the Packers defense has been better than the playcalling for the 49ers defense?

And this chart follows a clip of Joe Barry owning a call he made matching Preston Smith on Davante Adams??

[BSA]

Woah, woah, woah…

No kidding

Here's a link to the methodology used. Lengthy write-up and some interesting data inputs. Its not just some message board schmoe talking out of his arse, he obviously put the work in. However- we need to remember: " All models are wrong; some of them are useful"

https://pattonanalytics365.substack.com ... in-the-nfl

[musclestang]

After 5 games the Packers are tied for 18th in allowing 21.4 points per game.

Not really close to top 10 at the moment, which is disappointing.

And we’ve earned that ranking against some pretty &%$@ teams and offenses too. They’re probably worse than their ranking.

[BF004]

GB might also take another look at Tarvarius Moore who was released with an injury settlement in September and should be available to GB shortly
Moore recently had a workout with SF, his former team - but they haven't signed him yet and are dealing with injuries at other positions

" Moore is a player who head coach Matt LaFleur stated would have likely made the 53-man roster, had he been available for Week 1"

Gotta be a little BS on that quote. I mean they added Zayne Anderson at S who they knew was hurt and hasn’t played a snap yet.