Packers Huddle

Labrev wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:43

Yeah the offense was putrid at this time last season and we were losing to lousy teams like WAS. It came to life as Christian Watson emerged as a threat in the receiving game, aided by a stretch of us playing pretty poor defenses.

Rodgers's QB play was pedestrian before said emergence/stretch. Love was decent but fell off in the last two weeks. Love has better defense and OL play than Rodgers did by this point but Love's weapons have been worse so far, due largely to injury but also due to inexperience.

the OL sucked the first part of last season just as it does now, and Rodgers had even more raw receivers to work with, Love last year would have been worse, inconsistent blocking makes life much harder for any QB and unless we fix it Love wont improve.
plenty of blame to go around, Lafleur play calling, questionable coaching both sides of the ball, receiver screw ups, minor compared to terrible pass pro.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

good points, it really exposes the OL coaching, the QB shouldn't need to be so responsible to set up protections, our OL players should be more adapt at seeing the rush packages.

I’m not buying the OL talk. At times it’s been rough but no different than any other team. Defenses have elite pass rushers all over who can wreck games.

It’s on the QB to get rid of the ball. Read the defense and make on field adjustments to the play to get rid of the ball.

He has the most INTs in the league. He has the worst completion percentage in the league. Only one game he’s thrown over 60% and that was when the Lions played soft after &%$@ on him in the first half.

Take the training wheels off people. He isn’t a rookie. This is year 4. He should be worst in the league bad and unfortunately that is what he is right now.

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:50

the OL sucked the first part of last season just as it does now, inconsistent blocking makes life much harder for any QB

OL was bad last season, I said as much when I said Love has had better OL play. I do not agree it sucks as much now.

and Rodgers had even more raw receivers to work with, Love last year would have been worse,

Not true, Rodgers at least had a few experienced receiving options with guys like Lazard, Cobb, Tonyan, etc. Love has no receiver (TEs included) with more than one year of NFL experience, and only two of those.

plenty of blame to go around, Lafleur play calling, questionable coaching both sides of the ball, receiver screw ups, minor compared to terrible pass pro.

I agree, except for the claim that pass pro has been terrible.

Labrev wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 11:12

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:50

the OL sucked the first part of last season just as it does now, inconsistent blocking makes life much harder for any QB

OL was bad last season, I said as much when I said Love has had better OL play. I do not agree it sucks as much now.

and Rodgers had even more raw receivers to work with, Love last year would have been worse,

Not true, Rodgers at least had a few experienced receiving options with guys like Lazard, Cobb, Tonyan, etc. Love has no receiver (TEs included) with more than one year of NFL experience, and only two of those.

plenty of blame to go around, Lafleur play calling, questionable coaching both sides of the ball, receiver screw ups, minor compared to terrible pass pro.

I agree, except for the claim that pass pro has been terrible.

Lazard was hurt and missed a lot of TC and early season I remember. Cobb has more experience, and paid off early, but faded late. I'd love to have seen Reed with Rodgers. Easily the most potential we've had in that type of receiver in a long time.

TE's? Big Dawg was our 3rd OT because our OLine sucked. helped in pass pro sometimes, but hindered the offense in general I think always needing to use a potential weapon to block.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Do you have any specific games in mind or is this just slapping a generalization to a concept?

I think one could argue there were two games where the "little" things mattered. Tampa and New England. But there were also games where big mistakes were made by 12 that cost us the game or could have/should have cost the game.

at Detroit's turnovers and RZ failures, Washington in general but especially the poor 4th down read, and the dropped Dolphins INTs in Miami.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Rodgers may have won us games last year and we probably would be 4-1 with him right now but whats the point if he performs like grandpa when it really counts: postseason? Then I rather take Love, have some losing seasons to load us with picks to have a team that an average QB can carry to win a SB; an average QB that will go all-in in his few postseasons than Rodgers who looked hesitantly in the last playoffs as if he wanted to save his body to prolong his career - remember the NFC game vs. Tampa when he refused to run for a TD and instead threw, of course not a catch?

Love may be not our 3rd HOF in a row but he does look to have a potential to be another Matt Flynn and that would be enough if Gute picks well.

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:32

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Rodgers may have won us games last year and we probably would be 4-1 with him right now but whats the point if he performs like grandpa when it really counts: postseason? Then I rather take Love, have some losing seasons to load us with picks to have a team that an average QB can carry to win a SB; an average QB that will go all-in in his few postseasons than Rodgers who looked hesitantly in the last playoffs as if he wanted to save his body to prolong his career - remember the NFC game vs. Tampa when he refused to run for a TD and instead threw, of course not a catch?

Love may be not our 3rd HOF in a row but he does look to have a potential to be another Matt Flynn and that would be enough if Gute picks well.

So you think trading up for a first round player to be a career backup is enough?

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 11:06

I’m not buying the OL talk. At times it’s been rough but no different than any other team. Defenses have elite pass rushers all over who can wreck games.

It’s on the QB to get rid of the ball. Read the defense and make on field adjustments to the play to get rid of the ball.

He has the most INTs in the league. He has the worst completion percentage in the league. Only one game he’s thrown over 60% and that was when the Lions played soft after &%$@ on him in the first half.

Take the training wheels off people. He isn’t a rookie. This is year 4. He should be worst in the league bad and unfortunately that is what he is right now.

why you think 3 years of pine riding makes Love capable of dealing with free rushers is beyond reality, in fact you never know how good a QB is till they face a strong pass rush, defenses know minus Jones they really don't have much to worry concerning us running the ball, so they set up pass rush packages designed to get a free rusher, and that has been the case since we played Chicago, that stuff gets in a young QB's head, couple that with poorly run routes and it forces what Lafleur did Sunday, all short routes with the goal of getting the ball out fast to avoid those free rushers, but they couldn't get open, and Crosby was on Rodgers like white on rice.

pass rush is the leading factor for NFL QB's becoming used car salesman.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:36

So you think trading up for a first round player to be a career backup is enough?

Of course not. But we cant go back, can we? And if Love turns out to be a QB like Flynn I would still try to win a SB by stacking up the team with talent around him. I would not draft another one - I would do that only in case he sucks Brohm-like.

go pak go wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Do you have any specific games in mind or is this just slapping a generalization to a concept?

do you seriously doubt anything he said, if you can't grasp those realities thats your short coming not his.

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:32

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Rodgers may have won us games last year and we probably would be 4-1 with him right now but whats the point if he performs like grandpa when it really counts: postseason? Then I rather take Love, have some losing seasons to load us with picks to have a team that an average QB can carry to win a SB; an average QB that will go all-in in his few postseasons than Rodgers who looked hesitantly in the last playoffs as if he wanted to save his body to prolong his career - remember the NFC game vs. Tampa when he refused to run for a TD and instead threw, of course not a catch?

Love may be not our 3rd HOF in a row but he does look to have a potential to be another Matt Flynn and that would be enough if Gute picks well.

this is such wrong thinking, people say a team can win with average QB play, and my thought is show me the average QB's that have done that, you can count them on one hand, usually that guy who may have average stats plays mistake free and even raise there play for those games, it's a made up fallacy.

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:45

go pak go wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Do you have any specific games in mind or is this just slapping a generalization to a concept?

do you seriously doubt anything he said, if you can't grasp those realities thats your short coming not his.

So it take it your answer at least is "no" right?

Usually insults after asking for substance suggest you don't have substance.

This is kind of a hilarious read. 2 weeks ago we were like "WE DID IT AGAIN! 3RD HOF QB IN A ROW!!!"

Let the season play out. We've seen some good, we've seen some bad, but not nearly enough data to actually make conclusion. Love seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He's playing without his All Pro LT, Pro Bowl caliber RB, and very young WR's with their best one just coming back from injury.

We just need Love to show progression throughout the season so we can go into next year with high hopes (and hopefully a new Defensive Coordinator).

Papa John wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 09:52

Look, some of the Packers fan base swore up and down last season that this team would have been more competitive with Love at QB than Rodgers. At this point, that argument is absolutely BTFO.

That being said, I am not giving up on Jordan Love. This next game is going to carry a lot of weight for me. Denver is buried in the &%$@ house of the league in just about every conceivable passing defense statistic. It is really important to me that Love show some kind of resilience in this game. If he comes back and gives us another Raider game, I think that will be it for me.

I'm not going to give up on Love just yet no matter what happens against Denver. If we start to see improvement as the season progresses, great. If not we'll be picking pretty high in the next draft anyway. It is normally pretty up and down like this with first year starters.

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:49

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:32

Drj820 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 10:46

It’s the little things that we got from Rodgers that has nothing to do with passing the football that help win games. Like getting the OL set up, calling out protections, audibles. I think those helped win games last year. We aren’t getting that stuff from Love right now (understandable considering it’s his first year starting). But I think many have consistently underrated that stuff that we got with rodgers week in and week out

Rodgers may have won us games last year and we probably would be 4-1 with him right now but whats the point if he performs like grandpa when it really counts: postseason? Then I rather take Love, have some losing seasons to load us with picks to have a team that an average QB can carry to win a SB; an average QB that will go all-in in his few postseasons than Rodgers who looked hesitantly in the last playoffs as if he wanted to save his body to prolong his career - remember the NFC game vs. Tampa when he refused to run for a TD and instead threw, of course not a catch?

Love may be not our 3rd HOF in a row but he does look to have a potential to be another Matt Flynn and that would be enough if Gute picks well.

this is such wrong thinking, people say a team can win with average QB play, and my thought is show me the average QB's that have done that, you can count them on one hand, usually that guy who may have average stats plays mistake free and even raise there play for those games, it's a made up fallacy.

Right now in the NFL there 15 teams (of 32) with a winning record.

Of those 15 teams, I would say 7 of those teams have average QB play.

PIT
IND
SEA
DET
TB
ATL
NO

The whole "one hand" comment is already limiting because usually only around 12 teams are winners. But absolutely think it's reasonable to think about half of winning teams do it without upper level QB play.

go pak go wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:57

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:45

go pak go wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:17

Do you have any specific games in mind or is this just slapping a generalization to a concept?

do you seriously doubt anything he said, if you can't grasp those realities thats your short coming not his.

So it take it your answer at least is "no" right?

Usually insults after asking for substance suggest you don't have substance.

seriously you don't feel that your answer is a insult? it is because you know that stuff Rodgers did in every game, quite acting like a pompos jerk

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:45

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:36

So you think trading up for a first round player to be a career backup is enough?

Of course not. But we cant go back, can we? And if Love turns out to be a QB like Flynn I would still try to win a SB by stacking up the team with talent around him. I would not draft another one - I would do that only in case he sucks Brohm-like.

We missed our window to win with a QB like Flynn. You make that happen on a rookie deal. That’s why sitting a QB for as long as we did is so risky. You are banking he comes out and is a god like Rodgers.

As for going back… no we can’t. Which is why we need to be tracking how dog &%$@ these draft classes are and recognize where we are headed as an org.

One thing my first NCOIC in the Air Force said is if you are going to fail, fail fast so you can move onto the next solution. Well Gutenbumst has failed. Miserably might I add. Time to be proactive as an organization and not reactive.

go pak go wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 13:04

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:49

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:32

Rodgers may have won us games last year and we probably would be 4-1 with him right now but whats the point if he performs like grandpa when it really counts: postseason? Then I rather take Love, have some losing seasons to load us with picks to have a team that an average QB can carry to win a SB; an average QB that will go all-in in his few postseasons than Rodgers who looked hesitantly in the last playoffs as if he wanted to save his body to prolong his career - remember the NFC game vs. Tampa when he refused to run for a TD and instead threw, of course not a catch?

Love may be not our 3rd HOF in a row but he does look to have a potential to be another Matt Flynn and that would be enough if Gute picks well.

this is such wrong thinking, people say a team can win with average QB play, and my thought is show me the average QB's that have done that, you can count them on one hand, usually that guy who may have average stats plays mistake free and even raise there play for those games, it's a made up fallacy.

Right now in the NFL there 15 teams (of 32) with a winning record.

Of those 15 teams, I would say 7 of those teams have average QB play.

PIT
IND
SEA
DET
TB
ATL
NO

The whole "one hand" comment is already limiting because usually only around 12 teams are winners. But absolutely think it's reasonable to think about half of winning teams do it without upper level QB play.

player play differently game to game, who you consider average can be great one game or average the next, your relying on stats to form this opinion and stats can and often are mis leading, was Purdy average? you and others have called players average only to have them !@#$ pound us with elevated play.

this idea that average QB's can win as long as they have a strong supporting cast rarely happens, typically the supporting cast isn't able to, your hoping that these once in a while times will work for us, have you met Joe Barry, or the now challe3ned Matt Lafluer, or this porus OL, your asking for stuff that we lack in order to carry Jordan Love.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 13:11

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:45

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2023 12:36

So you think trading up for a first round player to be a career backup is enough?

Of course not. But we cant go back, can we? And if Love turns out to be a QB like Flynn I would still try to win a SB by stacking up the team with talent around him. I would not draft another one - I would do that only in case he sucks Brohm-like.

We missed our window to win with a QB like Flynn. You make that happen on a rookie deal. That’s why sitting a QB for as long as we did is so risky. You are banking he comes out and is a god like Rodgers.

As for going back… no we can’t. Which is why we need to be tracking how dog &%$@ these draft classes are and recognize where we are headed as an org.

One thing my first NCOIC in the Air Force said is if you are going to fail, fail fast so you can move onto the next solution. Well Gutenbumst has failed. Miserably might I add. Time to be proactive as an organization and not reactive.

your asking for perfection, and it's not attainable, never has been, I tend to agree that Guty's team building agenda has flaws, he started on the right track with the Smith additions, and taking Alexander, and even Savage who you dislike, ( always a better SS then Free) the Gary pick after acquiring the Smiths seemed like over kill specially in light of our lack of receiver talent.
Holding on to Rodgers hoping for one last shot to me was logical, same with the 3rd contract for Bakh, even so, settling for mid to late round backups is hurting us now, same with letting Lewis go prior to having his ability replaced, love taking Musgrave and Kraft, but they where no answer for the likes of Crosby etc.

I agree with mosr of your comments, but I think your a little over board at times