Packers Huddle

Posted: **17 Oct 2023 21:12**

Pettine was a far superior DC than Barry. Pettine had a very poor DL outside of Kenny, very mid ILB play (remember out of the league Martinez), and a secondary that required him to guard against the big play and protect the back end. (Minus right before half in the NFCCG I guess)

Barry does all those exact same things with a revamped DL, an above average ILB squad, and one of the best secondary’s in the league minus one safety position.

Pettine was good at “bend but don’t break” they really broke very little considering that personell.

I always liked him more than the heat he got

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 04:13**

This D is better than we think. Having to endure repeat 3-and-out's from the Packers O takes the starch out of them. Particularly when the O can't get started until late in the second half.

Fix the O, have the O make a couple of long drives in the second quarter resulting in 10 points and the Packers D will look 1000% better.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 05:47**

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Oct 2023 14:21

Actually very disappointed we didn’t make a coaching change at the bye….

The Packers' defense hasn't been bad enough for them to make a change at defensive coordinator this season.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 07:16**

There seems to be a lot of “just survive the down” going around in this D. Heard the same from Campbell earlier in the year after about the easiest 3rd down completion you could give up occurred. We see it a lot.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 08:06**

CWIMM wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 05:47

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Oct 2023 14:21

Actually very disappointed we didn’t make a coaching change at the bye….
The Packers' defense hasn't been bad enough for them to make a change at defensive coordinator this season.

so you don't consider strength of schedule to be a consideration.

when I see our secondary standing in the EZ on 3rd and 7 it doesn't compute for me, we are basically saying " I give up", that situation calls for press coverage, and we see that same thing between the 20's on 3rd and long, our defense plays with very little aggression, cushion coverage is the norm.

imho both Barry and Lafleur are on a shorter leash then most think.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 08:06**

most years besides in NFCCG we continue to look at the defense as "not living up to expectations", but the truth is we have an offensive HC and its the Offense that comes up small in most big situations against good teams.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 08:36**

Drj820 wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 08:06
most years besides in NFCCG we continue to look at the defense as "not living up to expectations", but the truth is we have an offensive HC and its the Offense that comes up small in most big situations against good teams.

Yeah. I've posted numerous times that Packers playoff losses, when looking at points totals, can be blamed on the defense and offense about 50% of the time.

There have been years the defense allowed too many points. (11, 12, 16, 19)

There have been years the defense held their ground and the offense did not score enough. (13, 14, 15, 21)

And then there is 2020 which is about an even split of blame as the offense had its chances but the defense also allowed too many points.

Sprinkle in some STs nightmares and you have a screwed fan base.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 09:24**

yet what we hear is that " Defense wins championships" so what do we do, we use almost all high picks on defense, and the offense fails to win PO games, and of course it's always Aaron Rodgers let us down, imho that plan has been a failure.

the last time we had a legitimate top 10 defense was over a decade ago, the part of the team that scores points is what wins championships, we simply neglected to fortify it enough to accomplish that task, although I would admit that several seasons special teams was so mistake prone they lost those PO games solely on there own.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 09:28**

Drj820 wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 08:06
most years besides in NFCCG we continue to look at the defense as "not living up to expectations", but the truth is we have an offensive HC and its the Offense that comes up small in most big situations against good teams.

True. But you can't have a Preston covering Jefferson or Adams. Just can't. Then to not even admit it is a problem. That is grounds for being fired immediately.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 09:31**

wallyuwl wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:28

Drj820 wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 08:06
most years besides in NFCCG we continue to look at the defense as "not living up to expectations", but the truth is we have an offensive HC and its the Offense that comes up small in most big situations against good teams.
True. But you can't have a Preston covering Jefferson or Adams. Just can't. Then to not even admit it is a problem. That is grounds for being fired immediately.

To be fair he did say that we have to have a check to get out of that coverage, albeit after it happened for the 2nd year in a row.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 09:45**

I would put 2011 in the O fail category, not D. Our 2011 team was built around relying on the sheer offensive firepower being too great for anyone to compete with them in a shootout.

So while yes the D gave up too many points on-paper, it was the O's job to get out to a fast and heavy lead, get the other team to abandon the run and play catch-up, then tee off on the QB and grab opportune picks.

The story of the 2011 game was that our vaunted WR corps. dropped and fumbled balls away. The way that team was built, they had to be the key to victory every week. They not only were nothing special that day, they were liabilities. The plays were there, but they didn't make them (OMG NOT BLAMING RODGERS!).

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 09:52**

Labrev wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:45
I would put 2011 in the O fail category, not D. Our 2011 team was built around relying on the sheer offensive firepower being too great for anyone to compete with them in a shootout.

So while yes the D gave up too many points on-paper, it was the O's job to get out to a fast and heavy lead, get the other team to abandon the run and play catch-up, then tee off on the QB and grab opportune picks.

The story of the 2011 game was that our vaunted WR corps. dropped and fumbled balls away. The way that team was built, they had to be the key to victory every week. They not only were nothing special that day, they were liabilities. The plays were there, but they didn't make them (OMG NOT BLAMING RODGERS!).

we lost because offensively, the pass was all we had, no run game and below average D and ST's, so we lost because of stellar pass rush and prevent defense.

just as teams are doing now to stop big play offenses.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:07**

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:52
we lost because offensively, the pass was all we had, no run game and below average D and ST's, so we lost because of stellar pass rush and prevent defense.

And yet they still could have won without help from any of them if the WRs had just hung onto the ball.

https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/packersseasonends
We had three fumbles lost and numerous drops.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:10**

Labrev wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 10:07

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:52
we lost because offensively, the pass was all we had, no run game and below average D and ST's, so we lost because of stellar pass rush and prevent defense.
And yet they still could have won without help from any of them if the WRs had just hung onto the ball.

https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/packersseasonends
We had three fumbles lost and numerous drops.

It's so interesting to be on a half decade rant about receivers, but when it is clear as day that it is the receivers, it's a pivot to the running game.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:22**

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:24
yet what we hear is that " Defense wins championships" so what do we do, we use almost all high picks on defense, and the offense fails to win PO games, and of course it's always Aaron Rodgers let us down, imho that plan has been a failure.

the last time we had a legitimate top 10 defense was over a decade ago, the part of the team that scores points is what wins championships, we simply neglected to fortify it enough to accomplish that task, although I would admit that several seasons special teams was so mistake prone they lost those PO games solely on there own.

Yeah if you have non-emotional viewpoint of the Packers the last decade you will conclude that the first half we had incredible WRs and even spurts of a decent running game in 2013 and 2014.

But it didn't matter.

We then focused more on defense and pass rushers and running backs the 2nd half of the era.

But it didn't matter.

We tried both ways from a team buildng standpoint. Both failed.

At a micro level, you can find and pinpoint specific players, plays, and GM moves (or lack thereof) that led to the failures.

High level, I think the 10 years of team building is fine. Yes we should have pursued OBJ harder. He would have came to GB if we full-court pressed it.

But our real issue is coaching and players not living up to the moment. 2014 with the myraid of issues. 2020 & 2021 coaching issues with not playing Tramon Williams or Yosh Nijman or giving AJ Dillon the ball when he was showing he was hot. Pettine being an absolute moron and not giving an injured Kevin King help when matched up on the opponent's fastest WR on the final play of the half.

And then you have the player issues.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:22**

And there is a reason why the WRs played poorly in that game, aside from the fact that the Giants had a good defense (turns out yes, it does win championships)... the weather was really poor in Green Bay that day, as it often is after October.

Yet that is another reason why the 2011 model that yoop romanticizes is a terrible idea; we are not a warm weather team. The playoffs in our home field and most of our conference rivals is not conducive to a Madden-style offense.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:26**

I have been watching some 2009 and 2010 games because they are showing up on my Youtube.

Honestly our offense those years has more similarities to today than I thought. We would go through so many stretches of ineptness. Just couldn't move the ball. Rodgers was absolutly not a polished product yet and our run game was awful.

But holy crap our defense was fun to watch. They just flew around. Tackled well. Forced turnovers. The closest energy and passion on defense I have seen since those years was 2019.

And shout out to Brandon Jackson. Gawd I love watching him in the screen game.

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:42**

go pak go wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 10:22

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:24
yet what we hear is that " Defense wins championships" so what do we do, we use almost all high picks on defense, and the offense fails to win PO games, and of course it's always Aaron Rodgers let us down, imho that plan has been a failure.

the last time we had a legitimate top 10 defense was over a decade ago, the part of the team that scores points is what wins championships, we simply neglected to fortify it enough to accomplish that task, although I would admit that several seasons special teams was so mistake prone they lost those PO games solely on there own.
Yeah if you have non-emotional viewpoint of the Packers the last decade you will conclude that the first half we had incredible WRs and even spurts of a decent running game in 2013 and 2014.

But it didn't matter.

We then focused more on defense and pass rushers and running backs the 2nd half of the era.

But it didn't matter.

We tried both ways from a team buildng standpoint. Both failed.

At a micro level, you can find and pinpoint specific players, plays, and GM moves (or lack thereof) that led to the failures.

High level, I think the 10 years of team building is fine. Yes we should have pursued OBJ harder. He would have came to GB if we full-court pressed it.

But our real issue is coaching and players not living up to the moment. 2014 with the myraid of issues. 2020 & 2021 coaching issues with not playing Tramon Williams or Yosh Nijman or giving AJ Dillon the ball when he was showing he was hot. Pettine being an absolute moron and not giving an injured Kevin King help when matched up on the opponent's fastest WR on the final play of the half.

And then you have the player issues.

I disagree, all we need to beat KC and the Giants in 2011 was the ability to establish the run

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:55**

So you are wagging your finger at... yourself?

Yoop wrote: ↑
21 Dec 2022 14:53
to think a QB with a few good receivers can't over come below average RB's OL, and defense is to deny reality, we see exactly that happen every Sunday, and we watched it happen for us for most of the last decade or more, go watch reruns of the 2011 season

Posted: **18 Oct 2023 10:58**

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 10:42

go pak go wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 10:22

Yoop wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2023 09:24
yet what we hear is that " Defense wins championships" so what do we do, we use almost all high picks on defense, and the offense fails to win PO games, and of course it's always Aaron Rodgers let us down, imho that plan has been a failure.

the last time we had a legitimate top 10 defense was over a decade ago, the part of the team that scores points is what wins championships, we simply neglected to fortify it enough to accomplish that task, although I would admit that several seasons special teams was so mistake prone they lost those PO games solely on there own.
Yeah if you have non-emotional viewpoint of the Packers the last decade you will conclude that the first half we had incredible WRs and even spurts of a decent running game in 2013 and 2014.

But it didn't matter.

We then focused more on defense and pass rushers and running backs the 2nd half of the era.

But it didn't matter.

We tried both ways from a team buildng standpoint. Both failed.

At a micro level, you can find and pinpoint specific players, plays, and GM moves (or lack thereof) that led to the failures.

High level, I think the 10 years of team building is fine. Yes we should have pursued OBJ harder. He would have came to GB if we full-court pressed it.

But our real issue is coaching and players not living up to the moment. 2014 with the myraid of issues. 2020 & 2021 coaching issues with not playing Tramon Williams or Yosh Nijman or giving AJ Dillon the ball when he was showing he was hot. Pettine being an absolute moron and not giving an injured Kevin King help when matched up on the opponent's fastest WR on the final play of the half.

And then you have the player issues.
I disagree, all we need to beat KC and the Giants in 2011 was the ability to establish the run

so just be good at everything huh?

I mean that is what you are doing. You identify the weak spot at the micro game level and then complain high level why the Packers didn't "think of that"

I mean that's super easy Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Just be great at passing offense. Rushing offense. Passing defense. Rushing defense. Ability to beat man, 2 high, 3 high, single high, get to the QB with 4...We all know the drill.

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