Packers Huddle

texas wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 17:18

Murphy does seem like sort of a fool. At least not on Harlan's level. But objectively he has set this team up well, or so it seems. So even if he's making some ostensibly dumb comments (which may actually be exactly in line with his goals), still have to side with him.

According to Someone in the FO, possibly Murphy: Love plus Surtain plus next year's Denver 1st round pick plus salary cap room minus King > AR

Can't say as I disagree after this season and it is a toss up this season for me. Does not seem foolish to me.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 20:18

texas wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 17:18

Murphy does seem like sort of a fool. At least not on Harlan's level. But objectively he has set this team up well, or so it seems. So even if he's making some ostensibly dumb comments (which may actually be exactly in line with his goals), still have to side with him.

According to Someone in the FO, possibly Murphy: Love plus Surtain plus next year's Denver 1st round pick plus salary cap room minus King > AR

Can't say as I disagree after this season and it is a toss up this season for me. Does not seem foolish to me.

Well, when I say he seems like a fool, it's mostly his words and his stated reasons for decisions over the years. His actual actions don't seem foolish. Which could actually be an indication that he plays dumb on purpose.

texas wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 21:21

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 20:18

texas wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2021 17:18

Murphy does seem like sort of a fool. At least not on Harlan's level. But objectively he has set this team up well, or so it seems. So even if he's making some ostensibly dumb comments (which may actually be exactly in line with his goals), still have to side with him.

According to Someone in the FO, possibly Murphy: Love plus Surtain plus next year's Denver 1st round pick plus salary cap room minus King > AR

Can't say as I disagree after this season and it is a toss up this season for me. Does not seem foolish to me.

Well, when I say he seems like a fool, it's mostly his words and his stated reasons for decisions over the years. His actual actions don't seem foolish. Which could actually be an indication that he plays dumb on purpose.

could be. All this drama, AR vs the FO may not be what it seems.

Since it's now fairly safe to say that the conflict at hand is between Rodgers and Murphy more than anything else, I make my vote: Rodgers.

Labrev wrote: ↑

16 Jun 2021 16:55

Since it's now fairly safe to say that the conflict at hand is between Rodgers and Murphy more than anything else, I make my vote: Rodgers.

+1. Though if I could vote "neither" I would.

I don't feel that I have any further clarification as to who, specifically this is about. I think it's about the whole front office, honestly; Murphy, Ball, and Gutey. But I don't KNOW anything. I certainly don't feel clear on anything. I think we've gotten more to the root of what some of his complaints are, but not at whom they are directed.

Further, given that allll over the national media (who all seem to think they are on Rodgers' side) there are suggestions of "compromise" in which Rodgers plays one more year and then has a poison pill that forces his trade and lets him have a say over where he goes after the season, it's pretty clear who is in the right on this. The "compromise" solution that everyone sees as a win-wn is the literal plan the Packers might have wanted to take, and Rodgers is trying to stop it. The win-win solution is the Packers' solution. The resistance to the win-win solution is Rodgers' entire position.

So yeah, I'm still on team "get it together and come win a Super Bowl, you whiny baby manchild (who I actually like and respect a lot as a player and person in most cases)"

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 11:37

Further, given that allll over the national media (who all seem to think they are on Rodgers' side) there are suggestions of "compromise" in which Rodgers plays one more year and then has a poison pill that forces his trade and lets him have a say over where he goes after the season, it's pretty clear who is in the right on this. The "compromise" solution that everyone sees as a win-wn is the literal plan the Packers might have wanted to take, and Rodgers is trying to stop it. The win-win solution is the Packers' solution. The resistance to the win-win solution is Rodgers' entire position.

I suspect Rodgers may still be angling for this "one-more-year" agreement except he wants his outright release whereas the Packers want the ability to recoup compensation for him. To me, there is no way in hell I agree to a post-2021 outright release.

The only way I'd have even considered agreeing to an outright release next year is if, prior to FA, Rodgers agreed to somehow nullify/restructure his contract and make it a one-year deal that paid him peanuts giving the team the financial cap freedom to sign any or all of Linsley/Williams/TBLS and/or bring in FA talent to make a final run.

It is no secret Rodgers' cap hit is a huge detriment to roster building. If he wanted out, fine, he's got his out but I'd have forced him to forfeit his top tier salary in order to allow the Packers some flexibility in building the post-Rodgers roster. Make him put some financial skin in the game.

I suspect he'd have never gone for that, though. He wouldn't even take less-than-top-tier like Brady. He had to have THE TOP paying salary, rest of the roster be damned.

Anyway, that ship has sailed regardless. No way the FO should cede on his current contract leverage now that all the FA talent has signed elsewhere and our own FAs have left.

One thing I wonder... if the issue is more with Murphy than Gutey (which I legitimately have a tough time believing that it is), if a return to a more traditional structure that increases Murphy's distance from player operations (i.e. MLF reports to Gutey who reports to Muprhy) would help. I don't think it will because Murphy is still the top, and Gutey is still the one who makes the decisions about football operations. But if the feud is about Murphy and his personality or lack of a good relationship with Rodgers, then I'd like to see that as PART of the solution. Like I said, though, I think Rodgers is also displeased with Gutey and keeping him outside of the players' chain-of-command up through the coaching side is for the best at present.


But I do wonder about it

I just want a ticket to the dance, I don't care who's to blame, and Rodgers give us the best chance to get there, both sides are to blame, first Murphy for giving him the shut up money and thinking that would pacify Rodgers so he wouldn't get all pissy as he kept McCarthy for a lame duck season, when that didn't work he finally hired a new coach, but then also drafted his replacement, which was bound to upset Rodgers.

Rodgers is also acting foolish, he doesn't really want to leave or this news would have broken a month or so before the draft, but whos to say the FO didn't know all of this at that time, yet thought Rodgers was bluffing and didn't take him seriously till the day before the draft, and when ya look at how they (Murphy) waited a couple years to long with Capers, McCarthy and Thompson to act, well then it's hardly a stretch to think they where slow to act with Rodgers too.

seems folks now just want Rodgers gone, to hell with SB's and winning, and imho that is not a option, if Rodgers doesn't play, and this team falters, then it will be a tragedy, so again I don't care actually who is to blame, to me everyone is acting like arrogant snobs, ya don't get in the position we are with a team full of talent and a HOF QB to just !@#$ it away because ya wont compromise with that snitty QB, if all he wants is for the FO to honor his contract and guarantee it, then that is what this FO should do, this idea of using him till Love is ready is hogwash.

no one here would go for that if you where Rodgers, he has 3 maybe 4 years where he can carry a team, who of you would want to shorten that time frame for the new team you'll play for? none of you if your honest about it. but that is what this FO seems planned to do.

[mention]Yoop[/mention] if Rodgers cared about winning the Super Bowl half as much as you do, then he'd be playing for the Packers this year, earning his $6.8M roster bonus and $14 million salary, and his $500,000 workout bonuses. His best chance of success is with us, and our best chance of success is with him. He's the only one preventing that from happening right now. He's the only one who can end this and go try to win one. It's him.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 16:36

@Yoop if Rodgers cared about winning the Super Bowl half as much as you do, then he'd be playing for the Packers this year, earning his $6.8M roster bonus and $14 million salary, and his $500,000 workout bonuses. His best chance of success is with us, and our best chance of success is with him. He's the only one preventing that from happening right now. He's the only one who can end this and go try to win one. It's him.

true, but he wants to be able to try again after this season with us too, that seems to be the sticky part, I think he should be allowed to play for us till either the contract is up or Love can realistically beat him out for the job.

Rodgers doesn't just care about 2021, he cares about the 2 contractual seasons that follow it.

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 16:52

true, but he wants to be able to try again after this season with us too, that seems to be the sticky part, I think he should be allowed to play for us till either the contract is up or Love can realistically beat him out for the job.

Rodgers doesn't just care about 2021, he cares about the 2 contractual seasons that follow it.

That's an astute point, that Rodgers is balancing his desire to win a Super Bowl this year versus his desire to be able to try for Super Bowls in the next couple of years; and he is, at present, prioritizing the future seasons over the current season.

So if you hated the Jordan Love pick because the front office was prioritizing future seasons (2022? 2023, 2024) over their desire to go for it all this year (2020), you should also hate that Rodgers is making the same prioritization.

For me, I hate that Rodgers is doing this because he is the only person who has the power to not do it--so I can't blame the team for Rodgers' preemptive strike. The team hasn't, in fact, moved on from his contract or entertained trading him. Rodgers is striking first based on what he expects. So that's his decision, and he is the only one who can fix it. So he is at fault and accountable for the outcomes. So MY reason for siding against Rodgers is not due to his prioritization of future championships over current championships. I think that is a reasonable calculation to make, as a player or franchise (think opting out due to COVID, choosing to get the surgery and end the season versus play through it and potentially damage it; as well as using draft picks thinking about years 3-7 as much as about years 1-2).

BUT, it's difficult for me to see so many people who DO hate the front office prioritization of future Super Bowl runs rather than a current Super Bowl run defend Rodgers when he is literally threatening to take away a Super Bowl run based on his own personal decisions and grievances.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 17:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 16:52

true, but he wants to be able to try again after this season with us too, that seems to be the sticky part, I think he should be allowed to play for us till either the contract is up or Love can realistically beat him out for the job.

Rodgers doesn't just care about 2021, he cares about the 2 contractual seasons that follow it.

That's an astute point, that Rodgers is balancing his desire to win a Super Bowl this year versus his desire to be able to try for Super Bowls in the next couple of years; and he is, at present, prioritizing the future seasons over the current season.

So if you hated the Jordan Love pick because the front office was prioritizing future seasons (2022? 2023, 2024) over their desire to go for it all this year (2020), you should also hate that Rodgers is making the same prioritization.

For me, I hate that Rodgers is doing this because he is the only person who has the power to not do it--so I can't blame the team for Rodgers' preemptive strike. The team hasn't, in fact, moved on from his contract or entertained trading him. Rodgers is striking first based on what he expects. So that's his decision, and he is the only one who can fix it. So he is at fault and accountable for the outcomes. So MY reason for siding against Rodgers is not due to his prioritization of future championships over current championships. I think that is a reasonable calculation to make, as a player or franchise (think opting out due to COVID, choosing to get the surgery and end the season versus play through it and potentially damage it; as well as using draft picks thinking about years 3-7 as much as about years 1-2).

BUT, it's difficult for me to see so many people who DO hate the front office prioritization of future Super Bowl runs rather than a current Super Bowl run defend Rodgers when he is literally threatening to take away a Super Bowl run based on his own personal decisions and grievances.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 17:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 16:52

true, but he wants to be able to try again after this season with us too, that seems to be the sticky part, I think he should be allowed to play for us till either the contract is up or Love can realistically beat him out for the job.

Rodgers doesn't just care about 2021, he cares about the 2 contractual seasons that follow it.

That's an astute point, that Rodgers is balancing his desire to win a Super Bowl this year versus his desire to be able to try for Super Bowls in the next couple of years; and he is, at present, prioritizing the future seasons over the current season.

So if you hated the Jordan Love pick because the front office was prioritizing future seasons (2022? 2023, 2024) over their desire to go for it all this year (2020), you should also hate that Rodgers is making the same prioritization.

For me, I hate that Rodgers is doing this because he is the only person who has the power to not do it--so I can't blame the team for Rodgers' preemptive strike. The team hasn't, in fact, moved on from his contract or entertained trading him. Rodgers is striking first based on what he expects. So that's his decision, and he is the only one who can fix it. So he is at fault and accountable for the outcomes. So MY reason for siding against Rodgers is not due to his prioritization of future championships over current championships. I think that is a reasonable calculation to make, as a player or franchise (think opting out due to COVID, choosing to get the surgery and end the season versus play through it and potentially damage it; as well as using draft picks thinking about years 3-7 as much as about years 1-2).

BUT, it's difficult for me to see so many people who DO hate the front office prioritization of future Super Bowl runs rather than a current Super Bowl run defend Rodgers when he is literally threatening to take away a Super Bowl run based on his own personal decisions and grievances.

Rodgers doesn't seem to TRUST that Guty and Murph will allow him to finish his contract, Do you? I agree with Rodgers, I think as he does that this will be his last season as a Packer, so he is just trying to protect his last few seasons, this team has spent a ton on the Smiths, Amos, Bak, etc, Kicking a little more Rodgers money down the road to insure he's completely sold in for the next 3 years is a lot smarter imo then thinking Love will ever be the finishing touch to help us win a SB, in fact it's a 50/50 chance that Love even finishes the season as the starter, no one will know the answer to that till the bullets start flying, big difference between throwing the ball around in ota's versus live game action.

We literally can not give Rodgers what you believe he wants/deserves. Pushing more money back only exacerbates our cap issues in 2022 and thus out chances after 2021. His best chance for a Super Bowl in the next 2 years is to end this feud today, it might even be his best chance for the rest of his career.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 19:29

We literally can not give Rodgers what you believe he wants/deserves. Pushing more money back only exacerbates our cap issues in 2022 and thus out chances after 2021. His best chance for a Super Bowl in the next 2 years is to end this feud today, it might even be his best chance for the rest of his career.

who knows what he wants exactly? he said it was not about money, so I believe its about being able to finish the contract extension he was given, which is only right, and what he expected, then we drafted Love instead of a player that could help this team last year or in the next couple years, the FO could also end this fued by guaranteeing his contract, why havn't they done that?

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 17:44

Rodgers doesn't seem to TRUST that Guty and Murph will allow him to finish his contract, Do you? I agree with Rodgers, I think as he does that this will be his last season as a Packer, so he is just trying to protect his last few seasons, this team has spent a ton on the Smiths, Amos, Bak, etc, Kicking a little more Rodgers money down the road to insure he's completely sold in for the next 3 years is a lot smarter imo then thinking Love will ever be the finishing touch to help us win a SB, in fact it's a 50/50 chance that Love even finishes the season as the starter, no one will know the answer to that till the bullets start flying, big difference between throwing the ball around in ota's versus live game action.

It doesn't matter if he trusts them. Honestly, it turns out they shouldn't have trusted him, either. The point is, he made the first move. He acted based upon that mistrust. He did not wait for them to try to trade him and then flex his muscles by refusing to play for the teams that made the best offers. Then you could say that the organization did Rodgers dirty and he's responding in kind. Maybe it's even wise of Rodgers to make the first move.

But the FACT is that Rodgers is making a preemptive strike. And so he is the only person who can be seen as responsible for those decisions, and he's the only person who can decide to de-escalate it.

When you make a big boy decision, you have to deal with the consequences. This was Rodgers' decision., It IS Rodgers' decision. The resolution lies in Rodgers' hands. Who else's fault can it be, then?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 20:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 17:44

Rodgers doesn't seem to TRUST that Guty and Murph will allow him to finish his contract, Do you? I agree with Rodgers, I think as he does that this will be his last season as a Packer, so he is just trying to protect his last few seasons, this team has spent a ton on the Smiths, Amos, Bak, etc, Kicking a little more Rodgers money down the road to insure he's completely sold in for the next 3 years is a lot smarter imo then thinking Love will ever be the finishing touch to help us win a SB, in fact it's a 50/50 chance that Love even finishes the season as the starter, no one will know the answer to that till the bullets start flying, big difference between throwing the ball around in ota's versus live game action.

It doesn't matter if he trusts them. Honestly, it turns out they shouldn't have trusted him, either. The point is, he made the first move. He acted based upon that mistrust. He did not wait for them to try to trade him and then flex his muscles by refusing to play for the teams that made the best offers. Then you could say that the organization did Rodgers dirty and he's responding in kind. Maybe it's even wise of Rodgers to make the first move.

But the FACT is that Rodgers is making a preemptive strike. And so he is the only person who can be seen as responsible for those decisions, and he's the only person who can decide to de-escalate it.

When you make a big boy decision, you have to deal with the consequences. This was Rodgers' decision., It IS Rodgers' decision. The resolution lies in Rodgers' hands. Who else's fault can it be, then?

The preemptive strike was drafting Love. That started the clock on Rodgers departure. You don’t take a QB in the first round and do nothing with him.

If you think Rodgers doing what he currently is doing you’re blinded by fandom.

The only way to completely de-escalate this is to go back and time and not do something absolutely moronic. Rodgers has seen this story play out plenty of times where the team drafts a younger player and cuts ties early with an aging player and he’s not dumb enough just to allow it to happen.

As far as I can read #12, he does not want to leave, but he wants to be the undisputed QB for the next 4 years; money is not a real issue.
As far as I can read FO, they don't believe he's the guy that can deliver the promised land over the next 4 years.
As far as I can see, there's no way to resolve this peacefully. Someone has to chicken out or this thing will blow up.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 20:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2021 17:44

Rodgers doesn't seem to TRUST that Guty and Murph will allow him to finish his contract, Do you? I agree with Rodgers, I think as he does that this will be his last season as a Packer, so he is just trying to protect his last few seasons, this team has spent a ton on the Smiths, Amos, Bak, etc, Kicking a little more Rodgers money down the road to insure he's completely sold in for the next 3 years is a lot smarter imo then thinking Love will ever be the finishing touch to help us win a SB, in fact it's a 50/50 chance that Love even finishes the season as the starter, no one will know the answer to that till the bullets start flying, big difference between throwing the ball around in ota's versus live game action.

It doesn't matter if he trusts them. Honestly, it turns out they shouldn't have trusted him, either. The point is, he made the first move. He acted based upon that mistrust. He did not wait for them to try to trade him and then flex his muscles by refusing to play for the teams that made the best offers. Then you could say that the organization did Rodgers dirty and he's responding in kind. Maybe it's even wise of Rodgers to make the first move.

But the FACT is that Rodgers is making a preemptive strike. And so he is the only person who can be seen as responsible for those decisions, and he's the only person who can decide to de-escalate it.

When you make a big boy decision, you have to deal with the consequences. This was Rodgers' decision., It IS Rodgers' decision. The resolution lies in Rodgers' hands. Who else's fault can it be, then?

of course it matters that his trust was broken, how many times has he said this is about personal decisions, when a person can't depend on the word of his superiors then there is bound to be resentment, Murphy gave him a 4 year extension, then turned around and drafted his successor a year later.

and it's a two way street, Guty and Murphy sabatoged our SB hopes pissing off there HOF QB, and there will be consequences for those actions to, if ya give a person a contract then ya should honor it, your problem is you keep believing anything this FO says, such as Love was BPA, and Guty traded up to get the BPA, and we couldn't trade up for a WR, or there was no one at slot 30 that was worthy of that slot.

he took Love and they planned to use Rodgers another year and trade him, Covid stretched it out a season, Rodgers isn't stupid, he could see what there plan was, so he has held out in hopes of a guarantee to be able to finish his career here, or at least play out the contract given him.

what seems obvious to me is that they wont guarantee his contract because Rodgers is right, they don't plan to honor the contract unless Love is a BUST, in which case they will keep using Rodgers, I don't blame him for wanting the security, he sure as hell has earned it.

I give the FO it's due, finally this team has the players that the QB doesn't have to carry this team for it to win, but that doesn't mean ya should now dump that carrier.