Packers Huddle

Eagles are kind of an enigma.

They seem to have like a huge talent drain from like 26-31.

But they are loaded on either side, or were.

But lot of older vets who are starting their regression, some more than others. But Slay, Cox, Kielce, Johnson, Graham, prolly a few others. None of them going to get better or take up less cap space.

But then just stoked full of young talent. Depends a lot on Jordan Davis and these 1sts, but I think they take a decent step back in ‘23, but have everything in place to be an elite team in ‘24 again.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 21:47

Meanwhile, all teams should learn that a great pass rush plus a dynamic offense is a great formula. The top 2 teams in sacks and the top two finishers in the MVP race on teams with great OLines and lots of speed faced off. If you don't learn the easy lessons: great QB play, strong OLine and great pass rush, you're a fool. Couldn't be more obvious.

I had to tag this Yoho, it is so spot on

for years I always sided with coverage as the key defensive ability needed, probably a hang over affect of the small ball era, plus I played some DB as a kid, but with todays up tempo quick out passing to what now have become shorter pitch point zones to combat the increased pass rush ability, I have changed my tune, if the pass rush takes over a 2 count to pressure the QB, it wont be fast enough, and coverage wont be tight enough either.

a great example of that was this SB, the Eagles and Chiefs both have great pass rush, yet both offenses racked up 30 plus points because both QB's had receivers and schemes designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands very quickly, and OL's to keep the pressure at bay till there able to, more so with Mahomes I think, Hurts is a great RPO QB, he can beat the rush with his legs as well as his arm.

this was one of the best SB's I've seen in years for showing the 3 aspects you mentioned.

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:20

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 21:47

Meanwhile, all teams should learn that a great pass rush plus a dynamic offense is a great formula. The top 2 teams in sacks and the top two finishers in the MVP race on teams with great OLines and lots of speed faced off. If you don't learn the easy lessons: great QB play, strong OLine and great pass rush, you're a fool. Couldn't be more obvious.

I had to tag this Yoho, it is so spot on

for years I always sided with coverage as the key defensive ability needed, probably a hang over affect of the small ball era, plus I played some DB as a kid, but with todays up tempo quick out passing to what now have become shorter pitch point zones to combat the increased pass rush ability, I have changed my tune, if the pass rush takes over a 2 count to pressure the QB, it wont be fast enough, and coverage wont be tight enough either.

a great example of that was this SB, the Eagles and Chiefs both have great pass rush, yet both offenses racked up 30 plus points because both QB's had receivers and schemes designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands very quickly, and OL's to keep the pressure at bay till there able to, more so with Mahomes I think, Hurts is a great RPO QB, he can beat the rush with his legs as well as his arm.

this was one of the best SB's I've seen in years for showing the 3 aspects you mentioned.

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:20

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 21:47

Meanwhile, all teams should learn that a great pass rush plus a dynamic offense is a great formula. The top 2 teams in sacks and the top two finishers in the MVP race on teams with great OLines and lots of speed faced off. If you don't learn the easy lessons: great QB play, strong OLine and great pass rush, you're a fool. Couldn't be more obvious.

I had to tag this Yoho, it is so spot on

for years I always sided with coverage as the key defensive ability needed, probably a hang over affect of the small ball era, plus I played some DB as a kid, but with todays up tempo quick out passing to what now have become shorter pitch point zones to combat the increased pass rush ability, I have changed my tune, if the pass rush takes over a 2 count to pressure the QB, it wont be fast enough, and coverage wont be tight enough either.

a great example of that was this SB, the Eagles and Chiefs both have great pass rush, yet both offenses racked up 30 plus points because both QB's had receivers and schemes designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands very quickly, and OL's to keep the pressure at bay till there able to, more so with Mahomes I think, Hurts is a great RPO QB, he can beat the rush with his legs as well as his arm.

this was one of the best SB's I've seen in years for showing the 3 aspects you mentioned.

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

I think we tried that in 2011-2016

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:33

I think we tried that in 2011-2016

Almost verbatim. Fire TT!!

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

Eh, I would say more: focus on the trenches on each side of the ball and make sure you have a good offensive scheme. If you have a great QB, focus on that and give him some after-catch playmakers and speed. If you have an emerging QB, focus on skill positions to maximize his success.

And yes, we have done that. And also, we've been one of the most successful teams in the league. So it's nothing new. Winning in the NFL isn't tricky. It's just difficult.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 11:39

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

Eh, I would say more: focus on the trenches on each side of the ball and make sure you have a good offensive scheme. If you have a great QB, focus on that and give him some after-catch playmakers and speed. If you have an emerging QB, focus on skill positions to maximize his success.

And yes, we have done that. And also, we've been one of the most successful teams in the league. So it's nothing new. Winning in the NFL isn't tricky. It's just difficult.

I felt like that is what we kind of did this year.

Lose Adams and MVS, theoretically we should have been getting Bakhtiari and Jenkins back.

Bak is about as good a LT as Adams is a WR.
Jenkins is a better LG than MVS is a WR.

Now health issues and delays toyed with that, but we even had our preferred 5 starting against Detroit in week 18, all healthy, and our O still blew.

BF004 wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 22:00

Eagles are kind of an enigma.

They seem to have like a huge talent drain from like 26-31.

But they are loaded on either side, or were.

But lot of older vets who are starting their regression, some more than others. But Slay, Cox, Kielce, Johnson, Graham, prolly a few others. None of them going to get better or take up less cap space.

But then just stoked full of young talent. Depends a lot on Jordan Davis and these 1sts, but I think they take a decent step back in ‘23, but have everything in place to be an elite team in ‘24 again.

Helps to have a good GM

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 11:58

Now health issues and delays toyed with that, but we even had our preferred 5 starting against Detroit in week 18, all healthy, and our O still blew.

The craziest thing about that Detroit game was watching Elkton Jenkins getting eaten for lunch by some guy named Buggs. Never even heard of that dude. And he made 3 or 4 key plays where he just eluded or moved Jenkins out of the way.

But yes, we did do some of this, but also a lot of it was/is a year away. DTs rarely make year one impacts (Wyatt), small school WRs often take time to adjust to the game (Watson and Doubs). Mid-round OL are rarely ready to start as rookies (Tom and Rhyan). But all of those investments, for me, are good ones.

Maybe that's why I don't share some of the pessimism for next year as a lot of people here do. I always saw 2023 as an offensive transition year (no clue what happened to the defense in the first half of the season; I just still don't understand that). That's why I didn't think keeping Rodgers for 1 more year made sense; that's why the new deal, advertised initially as 2 years and at least a 2-year commitment made some more sense to me than when they looked close and said it was year-to-year; and that's why I would have kept Adams over Rodgers... let Love take his lumps in a transition year.

But hey, that's how it worked out and it didn't work for us. Doesn't mean the things our team emphasizes are incorrect. We were 39-4 over 2019-2021 for a reason, and it's because we build strong rosters. Sometimes we get the wrong players at the right positions (all those defensive draft picks in the 2010s come to mind). But the philosophy behind our team-building has always been very sound to me. Hence the Packers, Patriots, Ravens, and Eagles routinely being mentioned, over the medium-to-long-term as well-run franchises. Hence all the playoff appearances. Hence all the winning. Just hasn't turned out for the championships.

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:20

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023 21:47

Meanwhile, all teams should learn that a great pass rush plus a dynamic offense is a great formula. The top 2 teams in sacks and the top two finishers in the MVP race on teams with great OLines and lots of speed faced off. If you don't learn the easy lessons: great QB play, strong OLine and great pass rush, you're a fool. Couldn't be more obvious.

I had to tag this Yoho, it is so spot on

for years I always sided with coverage as the key defensive ability needed, probably a hang over affect of the small ball era, plus I played some DB as a kid, but with todays up tempo quick out passing to what now have become shorter pitch point zones to combat the increased pass rush ability, I have changed my tune, if the pass rush takes over a 2 count to pressure the QB, it wont be fast enough, and coverage wont be tight enough either.

a great example of that was this SB, the Eagles and Chiefs both have great pass rush, yet both offenses racked up 30 plus points because both QB's had receivers and schemes designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands very quickly, and OL's to keep the pressure at bay till there able to, more so with Mahomes I think, Hurts is a great RPO QB, he can beat the rush with his legs as well as his arm.

this was one of the best SB's I've seen in years for showing the 3 aspects you mentioned.

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

my opinion.

our fail was not prioritizing the skill positions more, and to much reliance on drafting defense, specially when it comes to DL, I would have bought that position.

the nfl is changing to more balance of run to pass, still big chunk offense is still the best way to win imo, we saw that in this SB, heck we see a big offensive plays decide most games.

defense is a reactionary process, you adjust to whatever the offense does, and that is so hard to do in the span of a few minutes, or even a whole quarter, thats why I favor a more potent offense.

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:32

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:20

I had to tag this Yoho, it is so spot on

for years I always sided with coverage as the key defensive ability needed, probably a hang over affect of the small ball era, plus I played some DB as a kid, but with todays up tempo quick out passing to what now have become shorter pitch point zones to combat the increased pass rush ability, I have changed my tune, if the pass rush takes over a 2 count to pressure the QB, it wont be fast enough, and coverage wont be tight enough either.

a great example of that was this SB, the Eagles and Chiefs both have great pass rush, yet both offenses racked up 30 plus points because both QB's had receivers and schemes designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands very quickly, and OL's to keep the pressure at bay till there able to, more so with Mahomes I think, Hurts is a great RPO QB, he can beat the rush with his legs as well as his arm.

this was one of the best SB's I've seen in years for showing the 3 aspects you mentioned.

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

my opinion.

our fail was not prioritizing the skill positions more, and to much reliance on drafting defense, specially when it comes to DL, I would have bought that position.

Can you name me the DL that we drafted too much of and that was a mistake? I've been reading this from you a few times and just curious as to who you're actually talking about.

If you've ever wondered about who makes those LEGO highlights:

https://www.packers.com/news/the-man-be ... kers-story

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:38

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:32

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:30

Prioritize QB
Prioritize OL
Prioritize Skill Positions
Prioritize Interior DL
Prioritize EDGE Rushers

Forget LB
Forget DB

Is that it?

my opinion.

our fail was not prioritizing the skill positions more, and to much reliance on drafting defense, specially when it comes to DL, I would have bought that position.

Can you name me the DL that we drafted too much of and that was a mistake? I've been reading this from you a few times and just curious as to who you're actually talking about.

004 brought a list of draft misses on high picks, 1st and 2nd rounds I think mostly, DL dominated that list, my memory isn't as sharp any more, never was, so when you ask me for names it forces me to goo look stuff up, also not so easy for me and time consuming.

years ago I brought a list of % of positional draft success, yes a lot of DL make teams, but never play up to slot drafted, so if the draft is all you use to get them it will become a continuous thing as it became with Ted.

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:46

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:38

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:32

my opinion.

our fail was not prioritizing the skill positions more, and to much reliance on drafting defense, specially when it comes to DL, I would have bought that position.

Can you name me the DL that we drafted too much of and that was a mistake? I've been reading this from you a few times and just curious as to who you're actually talking about.

004 brought a list of draft misses on high picks, 1st and 2nd rounds I think mostly, DL dominated that list, my memory isn't as sharp any more, never was, so when you ask me for names it forces me to goo look stuff up, also not so easy for me and time consuming.

years ago I brought a list of % of positional draft success, yes a lot of DL make teams, but never play up to slot drafted, so if the draft is all you use to get them it will become a continuous thing as it became with Ted.

come on yoop. This isn't hard to answer. You stated we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

Your population of draft picks isn't large. You can absolutely look this up to support your claim. This is one of the easier claims to support your generalization assertion.

NCF wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:40

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 10:33

I think we tried that in 2011-2016

Almost verbatim. Fire TT!!

Fire Murphy! Fire the Board!

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:55

we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

4th round or higher in last 5 years.

Wyatt - 1st, 2022

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 13:07

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:55

we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

4th round or higher in last 5 years.

Wyatt - 1st, 2022

And the year before that Kenny Clark.


Now this was an issue, Harrell, Jones, Werthy, Neal, etc. but we are long past that time.

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 13:32

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 13:07

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:55

we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

4th round or higher in last 5 years.

Wyatt - 1st, 2022

And the year before that Kenny Clark.


Now this was an issue, Harrell, Jones, Werthy, Neal, etc. but we are long past that time.

I started going down the road, but long long past and nothing to do with today, so I made the cut line when Gutekunst took over.

If we go back 5 more years though:
Adams - 3rd, 2017
Clark - 1st, 2016
Thornton - 3rd, 2014
Jones - 1st, 2013

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:55

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:46

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:38

Can you name me the DL that we drafted too much of and that was a mistake? I've been reading this from you a few times and just curious as to who you're actually talking about.

004 brought a list of draft misses on high picks, 1st and 2nd rounds I think mostly, DL dominated that list, my memory isn't as sharp any more, never was, so when you ask me for names it forces me to goo look stuff up, also not so easy for me and time consuming.

years ago I brought a list of % of positional draft success, yes a lot of DL make teams, but never play up to slot drafted, so if the draft is all you use to get them it will become a continuous thing as it became with Ted.

come on yoop. This isn't hard to answer. You stated we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

Your population of draft picks isn't large. You can absolutely look this up to support your claim. This is one of the easier claims to support your generalization assertion.

and you can't, just go look it up, a lot easier for a kid like you then me, problem is you don't actually want to see the 5 or 6 DL that busted because you support drafting very raw players so Rodger will struggle, like the stooges.

go look up 004 posts.read it for yourself

BF004 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 13:32

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 13:07

go pak go wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2023 12:55

we didn't prioritize skill positions in the draft (meaning 1st two rounds) but instead prioritized DL too heavily and dominate our list of "busts"

4th round or higher in last 5 years.

Wyatt - 1st, 2022

And the year before that Kenny Clark.


Now this was an issue, Harrell, Jones, Werthy, Neal, etc. but we are long past that time.

well Jones, Neal. and Worthy where more recent, and all 4 where high draft misses, which was all I said, we could have traded those picks and gotten average starters

again this is GPG and other supporting not using a high pick on a WR since 2014, pure and simple.

funny really, everyone seems to agree with Yoho's point of view on team building, yet defend not doing so.