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Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:09
by Pugger
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 09:08
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 06:23
Yeah I was thinking about that today. What were all the drops?
MVS - I give maaaaybe 1? The Touchdown catch? Though I would say that was also on Rodgers. It looked a bit high but MVS probably also jumped a titch too early.
Sternberger had 2 though one was negated by penalty
Bobby Tonyan had 1
I am thinking we had 2 to 3 drops. What other ones am I missing?
I think depending on how you count "drops" we had anywhere from 3-6. One to Lazard and one to MVS might be counted as drops and might be counted as inaccurate throws and it just depends where you draw that line.
IMO a drop is a pass that hits a receiver's hands and is 'catchable'. Passes at a WR's feet or too tall don't qualify as a drop for me.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:11
by Pugger
We also better light a novena candle or 2 for Adams' hammy. We're gonna need him (along with Kenny Clark) if we want to go in there and win Sunday night.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:13
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 09:43
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 09:40
What excuses?
What did I write that deserves that comment?
I think the thought is that there were some catchable balls that other people may count as drops but that you aren't counting as drops. Hence, you are putting blame for those incompletions on factors other than receivers that others may attribute to those WRs. Thus, "making excuses for." Nothing personal, but an acknowledgement that people draw the line of "catchable" in different places.
Is it a loss in communication then that I was asking a legitimate question?
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 06:23
Yeah I was thinking about that today. What were all the drops?
I seriously wanted a discussion of all the drops and not a lame response of "giving the WRs excuses". I like to have help recalling plays of games and not our perception that is inaccurate. Because even when I think I am right about my memory...the film says otherwise.
And so yes. I get mad when I get a lazy response of "I give WRs excuses".
Lazard - I seriously don't remember a Lazard drop. I want to be reminded of the exact play if there was one. I do remember a ball in the endzone that should have been connect but I think Rodgers threw it bad. I can't remember when it happened so I haven't found it on gamepass yet. I think it was in the 2nd half.
MVS - I missed one in my memory bank. He had another drop toward the end of the 3rd quarter on the drive we settled for a field goal to get 34 points. It was a quick WR screen. It was a low ball by Rodgers but should have been scooped. Cost us probably 4 to 6 yards. He also had the missed catch in the endzone. So he is at 1 to maybe 2. Depending how you look at it. I will not give the two balls where he got personal fouled on as drops. The one was an uncatchable ball that put him in a compromising position needing to dive headfirst to split the Cover 2(that was a bad ball). The other required a half inch of better footwork.
Sternberger - I think officially he had one drop. The easy crosser in the first half. He also had another drop but it was negated by Patrick anyways holding.
Bobby Tonyan had 1.
So I am at 3 or 4. My post wasn't about being a smart ass or giving excuses. It was "hey people...these are the ones I remember. Help me on the others"
Not this, "oh there goes go pak go again defending the WRs.".
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:13
by YoHoChecko
Honestly, I don't know what it will take for them to bring in a vet DT at this point. Montravis Adams has been dinged up; Kenny Clark is hurt; Lancaster got hurt in this game. If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:21
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Honestly, I don't know what it will take for them to bring in a vet DT at this point. Montravis Adams has been dinged up; Kenny Clark is hurt; Lancaster got hurt in this game. If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
You have to think we have made calls and the vets we want just aren't interested.
But goodness. How are we going to defend Kamara and that run game this week?
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:42
by lupedafiasco
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Honestly, I don't know what it will take for them to bring in a vet DT at this point. Montravis Adams has been dinged up; Kenny Clark is hurt; Lancaster got hurt in this game. If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
The Packers made an offer for Harrison. I don’t know the numbers but he wasn’t interested.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 10:50
by YoHoChecko
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:42
The Packers made an offer for Harrison. I don’t know the numbers but he wasn’t interested.
I know; he wasn't interested at that time.
An offer made isn't a final offer, and it isn't unable to be revisited as time goes on and injuries exist.
I'm not talking about making offers, I'm talking about signing someone. A team that's 2-0 and can offer a big role early is more appealing than a team that is 0-0 and the whole world is talking about their likely regression.
An offer made when you have 5 healthy DL might be different than an offer made when you have 2.5 healthy DL.
Until these guys sign somewhere, they are options. The circumstances have changed fairly dramatically since offseason offers were extended. The popular view of the team's chances have changed a bit, as well.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 11:29
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:50
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:42
The Packers made an offer for Harrison. I don’t know the numbers but he wasn’t interested.
I know; he wasn't interested at that time.
An offer made isn't a final offer, and it isn't unable to be revisited as time goes on and injuries exist.
I'm not talking about making offers, I'm talking about signing someone. A team that's 2-0 and can offer a big role early is more appealing than a team that is 0-0 and the whole world is talking about their likely regression.
An offer made when you have 5 healthy DL might be different than an offer made when you have 2.5 healthy DL.
Until these guys sign somewhere, they are options. The circumstances have changed fairly dramatically since offseason offers were extended. The popular view of the team's chances have changed a bit, as well.
Preaching to the choir. I really hope something happens. What stinks from our standpoint is we really don't know if any conversations after the draft has happened or not.
The good thing however is at least DT is one of the easier positions to bring a guy on the street and just plug a hole. He don't have to worry about playbook, etc. as much as other positions.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 11:33
by YoHoChecko
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 11:29
The good thing however is at least DT is one of the easier positions to bring a guy on the street and just plug a hole. He don't have to worry about playbook, etc. as much as other positions.
Right. It also helps that the top two options on the street have played for Pettine before.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 13:05
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
It takes 2 to tango. They can't force these guys to take contracts that the team can afford.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 13:15
by BSA
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Honestly, I don't know what it will take for them to bring in a vet DT at this point. Montravious Adams has been dinged up; Kenny Clark is hurt; Lancaster got hurt in this game. If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
if you think about it, it kinda makes sense for both the players and the teams to wait on consummating any deal.
1) you get more info on Clark's recovery
2) it gives the young guys game snaps, which are in short supply without a preseason or minicamps
3) it shortens the season for the big guys like Dareus/ Harrison 8-10 games instead 19
4) it keeps that roster spot open for other maneuvers
ideally, they agree now...but don't join the team until late October and get in shape for the November - February push
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 13:31
by Crazylegs Starks
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Lazard - I seriously don't remember a Lazard drop. I want to be reminded of the exact play if there was one. I do remember a ball in the endzone that should have been connect but I think Rodgers threw it bad. I can't remember when it happened so I haven't found it on gamepass yet. I think it was in the 2nd half.
Technically, Lazard dropped that 4th down conversion, but the refs didn't see it hit the ground and the Lions had no time to challenge.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 13:53
by go pak go
BSA wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 13:15
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Honestly, I don't know what it will take for them to bring in a vet DT at this point. Montravious Adams has been dinged up; Kenny Clark is hurt; Lancaster got hurt in this game. If we don't have a DT in the building by Tuesday, my dream of Dareus or Harrison officially ends.
if you think about it, it kinda makes sense for both the players and the teams to wait on consummating any deal.
1) you get more info on Clark's recovery
2) it gives the young guys game snaps, which are in short supply without a preseason or minicamps
3) it shortens the season for the big guys like Dareus/ Harrison 8-10 games instead 19
4) it keeps that roster spot open for other maneuvers
ideally, they agree now...but don't join the team until late October and get in shape for the November - February push
I get from the team's persepctive. Espeically if the Packers can win while they are gone.
But I don't know if I can get on board from the player's perspective unless they really just want to live for December and January because every week that goes by means a smaller and smaller overall paycheck for the street free agents. They get paid by the game.
So if I am working out to get into shape to join the Packers in October....I'd rather be getting paid to get into shape by being on the Packers right now.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 14:03
by go pak go
So if you take away the one play, and I hate doing this because I know it hapepened....but it happened because it was the worst whiff by our best veteran player Z Smith.
If you take away the play from Adrian Peterson where he got 25 yards on the right sideline because Z didn't hold contain, the Packers run defense was actually not bad.
Detroit Lions - 20 carries. 64 yards. 3.2 yards per carry.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 14:35
by BSA
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 13:53
I get from the team's persepctive. Espeically if the Packers can win while they are gone.
But I don't know if I can get on board from the player's perspective unless they really just want to live for December and January because
every week that goes by means a smaller and smaller overall paycheck for the street free agents. They get paid by the game.
That's reasonable.
In the case of Harrison, he's earned $43 M so far, Dareus has earned $89M so far. So are they really coming back for the middling paycheck ?
Or is it because they want to play for a winner this season so they can enjoy a playoff run ?
Money always matters, I'm just not sure that the available money will be enough to get them to sign/play and take the risk.
They gotta wanna. And in the case of Harrison, he's said he's not sure if he wants to...
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 17:39
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 09:43
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 09:40
What excuses?
What did I write that deserves that comment?
I think the thought is that there were some catchable balls that other people may count as drops but that you aren't counting as drops. Hence, you are putting blame for those incompletions on factors other than receivers that others may attribute to those WRs. Thus, "making excuses for." Nothing personal, but an acknowledgement that people draw the line of "catchable" in different places.
Is it a loss in communication then that I was asking a legitimate question?
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 06:23
Yeah I was thinking about that today. What were all the drops?
I seriously wanted a discussion of all the drops and not a lame response of "giving the WRs excuses". I like to have help recalling plays of games and not our perception that is inaccurate. Because even when I think I am right about my memory...the film says otherwise.
And so yes. I get mad when I get a lazy response of "I give WRs excuses".
Lazard - I seriously don't remember a Lazard drop. I want to be reminded of the exact play if there was one. I do remember a ball in the endzone that should have been connect but I think Rodgers threw it bad. I can't remember when it happened so I haven't found it on gamepass yet. I think it was in the 2nd half.
MVS - I missed one in my memory bank. He had another drop toward the end of the 3rd quarter on the drive we settled for a field goal to get 34 points. It was a quick WR screen. It was a low ball by Rodgers but should have been scooped. Cost us probably 4 to 6 yards. He also had the missed catch in the endzone. So he is at 1 to maybe 2. Depending how you look at it. I will not give the two balls where he got personal fouled on as drops. The one was an uncatchable ball that put him in a compromising position needing to dive headfirst to split the Cover 2(that was a bad ball). The other required a half inch of better footwork.
Sternberger - I think officially he had one drop. The easy crosser in the first half. He also had another drop but it was negated by Patrick anyways holding.
Bobby Tonyan had 1.
So I am at 3 or 4. My post wasn't about being a smart ass or giving excuses. It was "hey people...these are the ones I remember. Help me on the others"
Not this, "oh there goes go pak go again defending the WRs.".
wow, for christ sakes it was never mean to inflame you, and you are defending the WR's, here you are defending Sternberger, a drop is a drop, doesn't matter if the penalty negated the play, and MVS needs to catch balls that hit the hands, and just look at the way he runs next to the side lines, he runs himself out of bounds.
MVS 2, Tonyan 1 and Stern 2, thats 5 without even digging for more
I simply made a observation that the WR's again dropped some balls, just as they had the week prior and we still had plenty of fire power in the offense to win easily.
I WASN'T LOOKING FOR A LONG DEBATE ON THE SUBJECT and why I said , your defending the receivers which you where, you did it again with your response to Yoho.
and I don't have the memory to remember every throw as you do, so why get into a argument over any of it, as I said there are 5 obvious drops, and you want to come here and call me out over 1 other.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 17:42
by Yoop
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 13:31
go pak go wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 10:13
Lazard - I seriously don't remember a Lazard drop. I want to be reminded of the exact play if there was one. I do remember a ball in the endzone that should have been connect but I think Rodgers threw it bad. I can't remember when it happened so I haven't found it on gamepass yet. I think it was in the 2nd half.
Technically, Lazard dropped that 4th down conversion, but the refs didn't see it hit the ground and the Lions had no time to challenge.
never saw Lazard lose control, the ball is allowed to touch the ground as long as the receiver doesn't allow it to bobble, from the angles I was given I didn't see that happen.
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 23:41
by Yoop
Coach Matt LaFleur said his staff counted six drops on passes thrown by Aaron Rodgers during Sunday’s win.
“We had six,” LaFleur said. “We’re tough graders a lot, and expect a lot out of these guys, but you have to have a high standard to get where you want to go.”
LaFleur didn’t reveal specifics on the drops, but they weren’t hard to find in the tape. Tight end Jace Sternberger had two drops, both on easily catchable passes without a defender contesting the pass. Tight end Robert Tonyan was likely dinged for a drop on a pass that was knocked out of his hands in the first quarter. Receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling appeared to mistime a jump and couldn’t bring in a potential touchdown pass in the end zone. Receiver Allen Lazard couldn’t finish on a throw over the middle and running back Aaron Jones bobbled a quick throw along the sideline.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/matt-lafle ... 57323.html
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 21 Sep 2020 23:44
by BSA
#Packers Offensive Personnel vs DET
21p - 26 snaps
12p - 23 snaps
11p - 19 snaps
13p - 3 snaps
22p - 2 snaps
only 19 out of 73 snaps in 11 personnel
That means..."we don't need no stinkin' WRs"
MLF only had 3 or more WR's on the field for 26% of the snaps - but he still played some 5 wide using RB's and TEs
Re: Detroit Lions @ Green Bay Packers GDT - 9/20 - 12:00 CST
Posted: 22 Sep 2020 06:17
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020 23:41
Coach Matt LaFleur said his staff counted six drops on passes thrown by Aaron Rodgers during Sunday’s win.
“We had six,” LaFleur said. “We’re tough graders a lot, and expect a lot out of these guys, but you have to have a high standard to get where you want to go.”
LaFleur didn’t reveal specifics on the drops, but they weren’t hard to find in the tape. Tight end Jace Sternberger had two drops, both on easily catchable passes without a defender contesting the pass. Tight end Robert Tonyan was likely dinged for a drop on a pass that was knocked out of his hands in the first quarter. Receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling appeared to mistime a jump and couldn’t bring in a potential touchdown pass in the end zone. Receiver Allen Lazard couldn’t finish on a throw over the middle and running back Aaron Jones bobbled a quick throw along the sideline.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/matt-lafle ... 57323.html
Thanks for that!
I don't remember the Lazard and Jones drops to save my life. We had all the other ones. Except I think they did miss the MVS drop on the quick WR screen.